And it stays what I have said: Show 100 of your non-Bond friends a pic of Dalton and see how well-regarded he is. He simply does not exist in the heads of the "casual audiences".
Speaking of being wrong, your feelings about Dalton notwithstanding, how does this statement in any way prove your point? Even if true, it's totally irrelevant. You may be on firmer ground when you argue that it is entirely possible, and maybe even likely, that Dalton's interpretation of Bond had nothing to do with Craig's subsequent take, but I think you weaken your argument when you throw in red herrings like that. Just my two cents.
Well, the argument was that Dalton made the path for CRs success and my counterpoint was that the normal wider audience have completetly forgotten Dalton being Bond.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
My point was clear enough...if you chose to ignore it so you feel your point is more valid...?...that's up to you.
Well, FYEO with the darker more flemingesque approach was far earlier than TLD
To go that route was the decision of the producers and not the main actor's
Dalton's movies did not so great that one could assume that this had something to do with the similar approach when CR was outlined.
So all attempts to draw a line between Dalton's Bond performance and Craig's success is don't make any sense.
Feel free to knit your own truth.
Maybe Dalton himself planted the rebirth seed for Aston Martin in the last 15 years because he drove one in TLD?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm sure many movie makers would live a flop like OHMSS. For every dollar spent on it. It
made eight dollars back.
I disagree with you here.
One key figure may be a return of investment like you say.
Another bigger factor is the absolute profit because large franchises like 007 have to grow and compete to the big blockbusters.
Think of sponsors who require a certain absolute figure etc.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Fascinating this be the the top thread now as I was just thinking about this exact same scenario. Personally I feel this would have been great. FYEO is one of the more serious Moore films and I think it would have suited Dalton perfectly. In fact FYEO through AVTAK are some of my favorite Moore films, but not because of Moore himself, simply because they're great films. I strongly prefer Dalton so this would be like a dream come true.
Also I feel Moonraker would have been a fitting send off film for Moore. But still, things aren't so bad they way they are.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,554Chief of Staff
My point was clear enough...if you chose to ignore it so you feel your point is more valid...?...that's up to you.
Well, FYEO with the darker more flemingesque approach was far earlier than TLD
To go that route was the decision of the producers and not the main actor's
Dalton's movies did not so great that one could assume that this had something to do with the similar approach when CR was outlined.
So all attempts to draw a line between Dalton's Bond performance and Craig's success is don't make any sense.
Feel free to knit your own truth.
Maybe Dalton himself planted the rebirth seed for Aston Martin in the last 15 years because he drove one in TLD?
As I said - Dr No is more Flemingesque too...so you can draw a line there to knit that
Aston's started to make very cool cars again...and they were happy to have the association once more...so that's an easy one...
As I said - Dr No is more Flemingesque too...so you can draw a line there to knit that
So you admid at he Dalton - paving theory is hilarious? Good! Because there have been flemingesque attempts quite earlier than with him. good!
I don't throw any seeding theories re. Dalton here - that would be you.
So I don't need any knitting
Craigs casting and his success have nothing to do with Dalton, No seed, no paving - no knit!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,554Chief of Staff
I admit you can't type for toffee )
Your theories are bad enough but couple that with atrocious typing 8-)
The V8 ran for almost 23 years because back then Aston martin did not have the money, resources and technology to bring a new model. They where always close to broke.
The renaissance of Aston Martin has 2 names:
Wolfgang Reitzle and Ulrich Bez.
Without Ford and their PAG, they would be dead or still running the V8 - which was a cool car but won't be allowed to be sold anywhere ( pollution and safety standards ) and just to be correct - Lazenby was the one who drove it first.
Another theory goes to bust
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,554Chief of Staff
So you just bust your own theory...?....smart move
What the holy heck is going on here?
Early Connery and Dalton paved the way for Craig, not in the minds of the general audience, but in the minds of the producers and financiers.
IMO.
paved:
Two solid blocks upagainst eachother. :v
bit like how this thread has turned out )
LOL...
Okay, it's like this- in 2005 the producers decided to come back from the silly of DAD, and needed a new actor... "We need a new Connery-type... or like Dalton, yeah he pulled it off well. Let's see this one... Craig. He has a serious look."
That's how I imagine it sort of going.
Follow the Fleming brick Bond.
That didn't sound as cool as I thought it would. ;%
This thread was inspired by Firemass' hypothetical one about "What if" Moore had only made four films (LALD - MR).
So, imagine Moore had quit after MR, and Dalton took over the role and worked on all the John Glen films (FYEO, OP and AVTAK would have been written, tailored and directed to the TD style of Bond). Then, the 6-year lawsuit debacle occurs as normal, and Dalton decides to exit.
IMO I think I would have enjoyed FYEO and OP, regardless of who played Bond.
Would you have been more satisfied with this hypothetical tenure of Dalton's? What would you have thought of "his Bond" had this occurred?
I'd agree 100% with this. FYEO would have been amazing in the car kicking scene. And AVTAK would have been a lot better as Dalton's Bond would have seen to that.
"Thank you very much. I was just out walking my RAT and seem to have lost my way... "
The V8 ran for almost 23 years because back then Aston martin did not have the money, resources and technology to bring a new model. They where always close to broke.
The renaissance of Aston Martin has 2 names:
Wolfgang Reitzle and Ulrich Bez.
Without Ford and their PAG, they would be dead or still running the V8 - which was a cool car but won't be allowed to be sold anywhere ( pollution and safety standards ) and just to be correct - Lazenby was the one who drove it first.
Another theory goes to bust
I'm quite sure Lazenby drove a 6 cylinder DBS, the Persuaders Aston was also a 6 cylinder dressed up to look like a V8.
Interesting topic, I always said myself that Timothy Dalton would have been better for the 1980's.
He is my favourite of all the Bond actors, but as far as being Bond on all five John Glen films I would say this:
For Your Eyes Only (1981) - This is my favourite Bond movie of the series, although Dalton did not star in it. It gave Roger Moore a chance to shine seriously, and it had the best action, back-to-basics, realistic, cold war spy thriller, score and locations of the entire series. There are few things to pick on about this film as it is the near perfect masterpiece and it was my favourite performance by Roger Moore. I do agree that he should have retired after this. Had Timothy Dalton started here, honestly, both would have been fine actors for the role but because Moore's performance is so top-notch compared with many of his other (campy) performances, but I've learned to be happy as it is. I would think that it would have been better with Timothy Dalton for sure as he defined the 80's Bond. I always said that FYEO, AVTAK and GE are Dalton Bonds without Dalton
Octopussy (1983) - Yes, Dalton was needed here, or someone playing the character a bit seriously. The whole film is a bit of trainwreck to be honest and it is my least favourite of the 80's Bonds. It's boring once it gets to Berlin and the plot is confusing as hell. They would had to have changed it to fit in with Dalton's personality but I do agree that we needed another actor here. Even with Dalton I doubt that there would have been much to improve and it still would have been low in my rankings due to the plot.
A View To A Kill (1985) - This is the one more than ever that needed Timothy Dalton. If he had been in this, AVTAK would definitely be up there as my favourite Bond movie. Again, they would need to change it around a bit, get rid of all the sex scenes and campy tone, but keep the cast as it is. I loved the plot of this movie, and pretty much everything about it, except Roger Moore - who was too old and it really did take the quality of the film down a ton. If Dalton had started here, this would have been the perfect first film for him.
My prediction is that if Dalton had taken over and last through Licence to Kill or even Goldeneye, the films would have been harder edged and probably improved, especially the awful A View to a Kill. In turn, when Pierce Brosnan took over, humor would have returned because people would have been ready for it, and Brosnan's natural comedic ability would have been allowed to shine through. All in all, it could have been a win-win for everyone involved.
IMO , with or w/o GL or TD , the scripts would've been the same.......I don't think it would've made a huge difference & 70s films would've been just as campy as Moore.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
PPK 7.65mmSaratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,229MI6 Agent
If Dalton had come in sooner I think it would have worked for the series. For Your Eyes Only seems at times to closer to Ian Fleming's books than any of the 1970's films(Though I do enjoy The Spy Who Loved me). I am sure that Dalton would have knocked it out of the park had he played James Bond. Additionally with him in the role sooner people would have adjusted to the return to the harder edge better than they did in reality. Also I would think the writers would turn out some better scripts for OP and AVATK than the ones we got with Dalton playing Bond.
Also I would think the writers would turn out some better scripts for OP and AVATK than the ones we got with Dalton playing Bond.
Why would you think that? The script for Living Daylights was a mess. Too many villains, confusing plot, 2nd half of the film is disconnected from 1st half.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Comments
Speaking of being wrong, your feelings about Dalton notwithstanding, how does this statement in any way prove your point? Even if true, it's totally irrelevant. You may be on firmer ground when you argue that it is entirely possible, and maybe even likely, that Dalton's interpretation of Bond had nothing to do with Craig's subsequent take, but I think you weaken your argument when you throw in red herrings like that. Just my two cents.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well, FYEO with the darker more flemingesque approach was far earlier than TLD
To go that route was the decision of the producers and not the main actor's
Dalton's movies did not so great that one could assume that this had something to do with the similar approach when CR was outlined.
So all attempts to draw a line between Dalton's Bond performance and Craig's success is don't make any sense.
Feel free to knit your own truth.
Maybe Dalton himself planted the rebirth seed for Aston Martin in the last 15 years because he drove one in TLD?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I disagree with you here.
One key figure may be a return of investment like you say.
Another bigger factor is the absolute profit because large franchises like 007 have to grow and compete to the big blockbusters.
Think of sponsors who require a certain absolute figure etc.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Also I feel Moonraker would have been a fitting send off film for Moore. But still, things aren't so bad they way they are.
As I said - Dr No is more Flemingesque too...so you can draw a line there to knit that
Aston's started to make very cool cars again...and they were happy to have the association once more...so that's an easy one...
I don't throw any seeding theories re. Dalton here - that would be you.
So I don't need any knitting
Craigs casting and his success have nothing to do with Dalton, No seed, no paving - no knit!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Your theories are bad enough but couple that with atrocious typing 8-)
The V8 ran for almost 23 years because back then Aston martin did not have the money, resources and technology to bring a new model. They where always close to broke.
The renaissance of Aston Martin has 2 names:
Wolfgang Reitzle and Ulrich Bez.
Without Ford and their PAG, they would be dead or still running the V8 - which was a cool car but won't be allowed to be sold anywhere ( pollution and safety standards ) and just to be correct - Lazenby was the one who drove it first.
Another theory goes to bust
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
So you just bust your own theory...?....smart move
What the holy heck is going on here?
Early Connery and Dalton paved the way for Craig, not in the minds of the general audience, but in the minds of the producers and financiers.
IMO.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Two solid blocks upagainst eachother. :v
bit like how this thread has turned out
Okay, it's like this- in 2005 the producers decided to come back from the silly of DAD, and needed a new actor... "We need a new Connery-type... or like Dalton, yeah he pulled it off well. Let's see this one... Craig. He has a serious look."
That's how I imagine it sort of going.
Follow the Fleming brick Bond.
That didn't sound as cool as I thought it would. ;%
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'd agree 100% with this. FYEO would have been amazing in the car kicking scene. And AVTAK would have been a lot better as Dalton's Bond would have seen to that.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That's because there's mortar this than meets the eye...
sly devil :007)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
He is my favourite of all the Bond actors, but as far as being Bond on all five John Glen films I would say this:
For Your Eyes Only (1981) - This is my favourite Bond movie of the series, although Dalton did not star in it. It gave Roger Moore a chance to shine seriously, and it had the best action, back-to-basics, realistic, cold war spy thriller, score and locations of the entire series. There are few things to pick on about this film as it is the near perfect masterpiece and it was my favourite performance by Roger Moore. I do agree that he should have retired after this. Had Timothy Dalton started here, honestly, both would have been fine actors for the role but because Moore's performance is so top-notch compared with many of his other (campy) performances, but I've learned to be happy as it is. I would think that it would have been better with Timothy Dalton for sure as he defined the 80's Bond. I always said that FYEO, AVTAK and GE are Dalton Bonds without Dalton
Octopussy (1983) - Yes, Dalton was needed here, or someone playing the character a bit seriously. The whole film is a bit of trainwreck to be honest and it is my least favourite of the 80's Bonds. It's boring once it gets to Berlin and the plot is confusing as hell. They would had to have changed it to fit in with Dalton's personality but I do agree that we needed another actor here. Even with Dalton I doubt that there would have been much to improve and it still would have been low in my rankings due to the plot.
A View To A Kill (1985) - This is the one more than ever that needed Timothy Dalton. If he had been in this, AVTAK would definitely be up there as my favourite Bond movie. Again, they would need to change it around a bit, get rid of all the sex scenes and campy tone, but keep the cast as it is. I loved the plot of this movie, and pretty much everything about it, except Roger Moore - who was too old and it really did take the quality of the film down a ton. If Dalton had started here, this would have been the perfect first film for him.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Officer Crabtree : Ronnie , what's the current bix office status for the movie Gone with the Wond......does it state the numbers in the newspooper ?
(not actual dialogue from the Allo Allo show but he very well could've said it , lol)
I never even noticed
http://youtu.be/6DrAp5gzdqc
http://youtu.be/CziOVXFhwQY
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Why would you think that? The script for Living Daylights was a mess. Too many villains, confusing plot, 2nd half of the film is disconnected from 1st half.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS