Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

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  • Mr_Sable_BasiliskMr_Sable_Basilisk BerlinPosts: 50MI6 Agent
    It slowly over the years became my favorite Moore Bond. Doesn't mean it's his best Bond movie, which probably is TSWLM or his best outing as a professional spy (FYEO). I just like the characters, the look of the film and the fact that it's like a time capsule. And Jane Seymour is very easy on the eyes. :D
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,107MI6 Agent
    My pros and cons;

    Pros

    Great soundtrack from George Martin

    Great theme song from Paul Macartney and the Wings.

    Great action setpieces, such as the boat chase and the fight with Tee Hee on the train.

    Cons

    It would've been better if Bond appeared in the PTS. Seeing Roger Moore's name in the titles before his first scene would spoil te mystery for first time viewers of the film.

    Rosie Carver is a terrible character
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

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  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    **Spoiler Warning**

    Live and Let Die is the 8th film in the franchise, released in 1973, featuring Roger Moore. With Connery, fan favorite, retiring, Moore had big shoes to fill. Acclaim toward this movie has varied from somewhat positive to lukewarm.

    PROS:
    [list=*]
    [*]Moore's brighter demeanor gave him room to react to situations in ways the more arrogant conventional Connery Bond wouldn't.[/*]
    [*]Takes risks and overall stands as unique[/*]
    [*]Opts for a story on urban decay, still tied into the Cold War, rather than world domination[/*]
    [*]Astoundingly good theme song. Paul McCartney rocks hard when apart from The Beatles.[/*]
    [*]Usually paces quite well and the action keeps flowing[/*]
    [*]Some really bizarre creepy horror-ish parts (tribal scene)[/*]
    [*]Full of over-the-top humor, but still takes on serious themes.[/*]
    [*]Magnetic watch, gas bullet and other gadgets[/*]
    [/list]

    CONS:
    [list=*]
    [*]Rides the Blaxplotation bandwagon unauthentically[/*]
    [*]White redneck cop stereotype is painfully corny[/*]
    [*]Using Solitaire's virginity as a plot device[/*]
    [*]Some of Moore's sexual scenes were uncomfortable/rapey[/*]
    [*]Chase sequence was a bit drawn out[/*]
    [/list]

    Overall Thoughts:
    [list=*]
    [*]I wouldn't call LALD racist, nor progressive. Well-intending but naive perhaps.[/*]
    [*]Most Black characters were villains but we're also portrayed as independent and shrewd.[/*]
    [*]Moore's understated often humble attitude quietly immersed him in the role. Connery's presence was missing I guess, but I never really noticed or cared too much.[/*]
    [*]Moore was still developing his creativity here. At times, Moore acted in the mold of Connery.[/*]
    [*]This movie has its sour spots, but the good outweighs the bad and the fact that its unique helps it.[/*]
    [*]The 70's Blaxploitation phase is far in the past, but this movie is a time capsule. It's not afraid to take on lots of culture, even if it does so stupidly at time.[/*]
    [*]It's not one of the best Bond films but it still has its place in the series.[/*]
    [/list]

    Rating: 6/10 (Good)

    I was really disappointed with Moore as Connery's replacement (I actually like Lazenby better), so my reaction to LALD is obviously colored by that disappointment. However, there are some aspects of the movie I find enjoyable, such as Dr. Kanaga/Mr. Big and Tee Hee, as portrayed by Yaphet Kotto and Julius Harris, respectively. I agree the theme song is one of the best and I think the crocodile stunt is fantastic. Baron Samedi is a very memorable character and I think the voodoo elements add a unique and interesting touch. Finally, I get a special kick out of the fact that parts of LALD were filmed near the Harlem neighborhood where I grew up. But there are a number of really glaring cons for me, including the unamusing Sheriff Pepper, the very annoying Rosie Carver, the lack of a proper introduction for the new Bond, the boat chase that was drawn out so long that the initial excitement dissipates quickly, and the cartoonish death of Dr. Kananga.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    edited December 2014
    But the cover on the LP was beautiful.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    It would've been better if Bond appeared in the PTS. Seeing Roger Moore's name in the titles before his first scene would spoil te mystery for first time viewers of the film.

    Good point. At the same time, part of advertising the movie is advertising the actor and word of mouth would've spread. But perhaps they could have announced his name after his first scene.
  • VesperMelogranoVesperMelograno The SouthPosts: 901MI6 Agent
    This film is an absolute low in the franchise. The only positive is the theme song.
    I've always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Aside from my approval of Moore replacing Connery, I agree with all of Blackleiter's points.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    This film is an absolute low in the franchise. The only positive is the theme song.
    I liked it. I liked TMWTGG more.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • VesperMelogranoVesperMelograno The SouthPosts: 901MI6 Agent
    I want those 121 minutes of my life back...
    chrisisall wrote:
    I liked it. I liked TMWTGG more.
    I've always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey
  • DutchfingerDutchfinger Holland With LovePosts: 1,240MI6 Agent
    Yes, it's probably for the best that he never came back for a second Time -{

    Never? ... ;)
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Saw LALD for the 2nd time today, so I'll give an update now that I've paid more attention to the movie in this recent viewing.

    As far as race goes, there's still some politically incorrect grounds. Portraying black characters as strange, alien and voodoo pretty much conformed to existing stereotypes. I'm not angry at the ignorance in the movie because they overall meant well and weren't malicious about things at all. I still believe that LALD portrays women as sexual-playthings, though I see Moore's relationship with Solitaire a little more mutual than I have before. JW Pepper also bothers me less.

    The movie overall had a relatively big cultural presence because it was Moore's debut. And at that, he did a fine job. Lot of good aspects to appreciate. The gadgets, Jane Seymour, Kananga, Tee Hee, the ending, and lots of "talking villain syndrome". The scenery in the film is quite nice, but overall, in my second viewing, I realized that this movie was a lot less unique than I originally thought. It follows the formula in the most strictest sense possible.

    I don't want to call it overrated, but there are numerous less acclaimed less culturally relevant movies in the series I enjoyed far more. For what it's worth, LALD was an overall okay entry. Enjoyable, entertaining. In my 2nd viewing, I was both less offended at it's weaknesses and less enraptured in its strengths. I think it'll be placed on the mid-low part of my ranking list overall.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I think it'll be placed on the mid-low part of my ranking list overall.
    Fair enough I'd say, though I have a sentimental liking for it as it was my second theatrical Bond... :)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    That's what it boils down to. If LALD came out in the later part of Moore's career, it would've been forgettable.

    But LALD was like the JFK Inauguration moment for many first-time viewers.
  • 002002 New ZealandPosts: 558MI6 Agent
    I love Live and Let Die, and think it one of Moore's best. However, JW Pepper spoils many moments in it for me.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Sorry, but that bit at the crocodile farm and the amazing soundtrack big it up for me..
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    002 wrote:
    However, JW Pepper spoils many moments in it for me.

    I agree it would have been better without him. Also, I just watched LALD again over the weekend and it struck me how much the soundtrack sounds like the soundtrack to a 70s television show. The full, lush sounds of John Barry's music is sorely missed.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • ManxmanManxman Posts: 122MI6 Agent
    Pros:

    • Moore’s performance is excellent and his style is ideally suited to the film (it’s hard to imagine any of the other Bonds pulling it off as well)
    • The plot is intriguing, clever and refreshingly small-scale
    • Kananga is a very different villain from the usual, being gregarious, sociable and hot-tempered
    • Solitaire shouldn’t really work as a character but does
    • Tee Hee makes for a genuinely likeable, as well as genuinely dangerous, henchman
    • The blaxploitation elements are surprisingly well executed
    • There is a lot of effective black humour (such as the assassin answering “yours” when asked “whose funeral is it?”)
    • The lack of a briefing from Q makes a refreshing change (I like Desmond Llewelyn, but the M and Q office scenes were often formulaic and played for cheap laughs)
    • The music (the first non-John Barry score) is superb, as is Paul McCartney’s title song
    • There’s real tension and urgency in the film, unlike those that bookended it
    • David Hedison is the first really credible Felix Leiter since Jack Lord
    • Geoffrey Holder is perfectly cast as Baron Samedi
    • The film is steeped in atmosphere – no other Bond film feels like it
    • The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky
    • The crocodile farm scenes are fantastic

    Cons

    • Kananga’s ridiculous death scene
    • The brief appearance of a high-tech lair at the end — it’s not needed and appears to be thrown in merely as an identifying Bondian element
    • The deus ex machina ending — Bond’s watch is suddenly capable of a trick we haven’t seen before
    • Kananga’s interrogation of Bond makes no sense — he threatens to have Tee Hee remove a finger if Solitaire gets a question wrong, she does and he has Tee Hee release Bond before knocking him unconscious
    • Rosie Carver is an idiot
    • The film doesn’t seem to know what it thinks of Baron Samedi — is he a genuinely supernatural figure or a man in a costume intended to scare the natives?
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Just some points.
    The plot is refreshingly small-scale

    Interesting point. Most of the plot seem to be about destroying the world, which are less believable. But this one is believable because its feasible.
    • Kananga is a very different villain from the usual, being gregarious, sociable and hot-tempered

    Agree. Aside from the super-iconic "talking villain syndrome", he's one of the smartest villains in the series.
    Solitaire shouldn’t really work as a character but does

    How though? Her value is tied to her virginity and her only purpose after that is to be a one-night stand for Bond. But fans glaze over that because she's sexy.
    The lack of a briefing from Q makes a refreshing change

    Agree. Excellent actor but not every film needs to have him.
    David Hedison is the first really credible Felix Leiter since Jack Lord

    Yes, he's one of the better Leiters, along with the CR/QOS Leiter.
    Geoffrey Holder is perfectly cast as Baron Samedi

    Heeehehahahahahahahah!!
    The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky

    This is going to be a super-controversial point, but if the voodoo rituals were conducted by white people, they would be seen as a silly frat-boy comedy thing - not spooky. I suspect the spookiness factor comes from cultural conditioning that associates black with tribal.
    Kananga’s interrogation of Bond makes no sense — he threatens to have Tee Hee remove a finger if Solitaire gets a question wrong, she does and he has Tee Hee release Bond before knocking him unconscious

    Was purely an interrogation technique, as torture. Akin, to fake executions. Aka, giving the person a scary near-death experience by pretending to guillotine them. Then, taking them out and killing them for real. Apart from added suffering, this technique also baits the victim into trying to escape. If they escape the fake execution, they'll just be in the real one.

    For LALD's sake, maybe they just wanted a cleaner kill.
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky

    This is going to be a super-controversial point, but if the voodoo rituals were conducted by white people, they would be seen as a silly frat-boy comedy thing - not spooky. I suspect the spookiness factor comes from cultural conditioning that associates black with tribal.

    Not controversial but I don't agree. The witchcraft rituals in films like The Devil Rides Out are very spooky - and they're conducted by Blofeld himself, Charles Gray. If filmed properly they would be spooky, whoever conducts the rituals - and if poorly filmed they would look silly by the same measure.
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  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    In the actual LALD Novel, Mr Big's Followers think that he is the Baron Samedi himself.
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  • jonnybond78jonnybond78 Posts: 35MI6 Agent
    I love this movie. My dad had it on VHS and I used to keep getting him to put it on for me. I've always found that this is a favourite amongst casual fans. A lot of people I have chatted Bond with down the years cite this as a favourite. The box office tells a story. LALD is the 4th highest grossing movie in the series (adjusted for inflation). Only bettered by Skyfall, Goldfinger and Thunderball. Considering GF and Thunderball were at the height of the spy-mania. LALD proves that Moore saved the franchise and enabled it to endure to this day. Ps Connery is still the best. But Moore close second
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    edited June 2015
    LALD sometimes sticks to the formula a bit much, but it has a lot going for it. As for the race thing, I realize there's some ignorance, but also some beauty in how it portrays things. There's no movie in the Bond series quite like it.
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 6,030MI6 Agent
    Before tonight not seen for a long time probably 10 years or so.

    Pros:
    Title Song
    Titles
    Plane chase
    Crocodile farm
    Boat chase
    Train fight
    Baron Samedi at the end on the train
    Kananga - Baron Samedi - Tee Hee - JW Pepper - Felix Leiter - Miss Caruso

    Cons:
    No Bond in PTS
    No Q
    Music - a weak score
    Car chase - mimics the same moves as in DAF which was pretty uninspiring in itself
    Kananga's death - ridiculous for such a good villain
    Obvious cheap looking sets

    Observations:
    Bond is now lighter in style and smokes cigars

    Conclusion:
    This is an improvement on DAF - Roger Moore equips himself quite nicely as a new style lighter Bond and there is no silliness of later movies although his schoolboy delivery of his puns is excruciating. I don't find the film racist - so the villains are black - so what, it's not as if there were never any white villains in the series? I also like Sheriff Pepper he is an OTT buffoon who no one takes seriously and what is amusing is his obvious inability to recognise that he is actually THAT stupid. The villains are well cast and believable. The big set pieces are well staged and apart from OHMSS has the best ending of all with Samedi appearing spookily on the train. Paul McCartney's title song is the best of the whole canon what a shame the incidental music is so insipid with long periods of no music at all especially in some of the action scenes. Unfortunately the sets are very obviously sets and they look cheap and shoddy although Kananga's lair looks ok. I would say this was a pretty solid effort to begin a new Bond actor and certainly one of Roger's best.

    CHB will return reviewing TMWTGG soon :D
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  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Before tonight not seen for a long time probably 10 years or so.

    Pros:
    Title Song
    Titles
    Plane chase
    Crocodile farm
    Boat chase
    Train fight
    Baron Samedi at the end on the train
    Kananga - Baron Samedi - Tee Hee - JW Pepper - Felix Leiter - Miss Caruso

    Cons:
    No Bond in PTS
    No Q
    Music - a weak score
    Car chase - mimics the same moves as in DAF which was pretty uninspiring in itself
    Kananga's death - ridiculous for such a good villain
    Obvious cheap looking sets

    Observations:
    Bond is now lighter in style and smokes cigars

    Conclusion:
    This is an improvement on DAF - Roger Moore equips himself quite nicely as a new style lighter Bond and there is no silliness of later movies although his schoolboy delivery of his puns is excruciating. I don't find the film racist - so the villains are black - so what, it's not as if there were never any white villains in the series? I also like Sheriff Pepper he is an OTT buffoon who no one takes seriously and what is amusing is his obvious inability to recognise that he is actually THAT stupid. The villains are well cast and believable. The big set pieces are well staged and apart from OHMSS has the best ending of all with Samedi appearing spookily on the train. Paul McCartney's title song is the best of the whole canon what a shame the incidental music is so insipid with long periods of no music at all especially in some of the action scenes. Unfortunately the sets are very obviously sets and they look cheap and shoddy although Kananga's lair looks ok. I would say this was a pretty solid effort to begin a new Bond actor and certainly one of Roger's best.

    CHB will return reviewing TMWTGG soon :D

    I actually love the score. Like with FYEO, it doesn't sound like Bond music, but it's still great music and matches the feel of title song. It uses the title song to great effect within the score as well.
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  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    Ah yes my old friend LALD -{
    So many positives for me.
    Crocodile jump.
    Train fight.
    Flying school - Mrs Bell.
    Bus chase.
    Butterhook!
    Theme tune.
    Great score.
    Voodoo.
    Solitaire.
    Boat chase (too long - not at all.)
    Sheriff Pepper :o (although I am not as keen with his appearance in TMWTGG)
    As far as Bond villains go this film has one of the best groups - Kananga, Tee Hee, Baron Samedi, "Your champagne sir" got to love Whisper.
    My only negatives are Rosie Carver and Kananga's death.
    Certainly one of my favourites with Sir Roger as Bond. -{
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • Smiert-SpionamSmiert-Spionam Posts: 318MI6 Agent
    I love LALD. Definately up there in my top 5 Bond films.

    Pros:

    The humour is spot on. Laugh out loud moments without being over silly
    Great villains. Kananga/Tee Hee/Baron Samedi
    Roger Moore in fine form. Best film he did along with FYEO
    Solitaire is absolutely stunning
    I enjoy David Hedison's portrayal as Felix Leiter
    Probably the best Bond theme of the series
    The whole spooky voodoo vibe
    J.W Pepper (he is a plus point in my opinion)
    That 'crocodile' stunt
    Such a great score. One of the most memorable imo

    Cons:

    Kananga's stupid death
    Boring PTS
    Rosie Carver
    Bond's epic battle with a snake
    Smiert Spionam
  • Smiert-SpionamSmiert-Spionam Posts: 318MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    I think it'll be placed on the mid-low part of my ranking list overall.
    Fair enough I'd say, though I have a sentimental liking for it as it was my second theatrical Bond... :)

    I think another reason why I have alot of love for LALD is the fact that I remember watching it with my dad and my best friend when it was on the TV many years ago. Very happy memories :)
    Smiert Spionam
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Pros:

    -Arguably the best directed of Hamilton's films (yes, I like GF more, but I honestly think Hamilton really outdid himself with L&LD, purely in terms of his direction). He crafted a fun ride with highly impressive cinematography.
    -Tee Hee and Baron Samedi. They make quite an impression.
    -Solitaire, even though I like other BGs more, is gorgeous.
    -The boat chase is fantastic.
    -The score is great.
    -Some sweet one-liners from Moore.
    -The plot is easy to understand.

    Cons:
    -Moore would give better performances in his next 3 films. I even prefer his AVTAK performance over his performance in L&LD. Not saying it's bad, but Moore gives off the sense that his acting muscles need some exercise.
    -Kananga, for some reason, doesn't hit me that hard as a villain. He's goodenough for the film, but for me he's no Zorin, Scaramanga, or Drax.
    -Sheriff Pepper's tobacco spitting. Just a disgusting sight.

    Overall, I enjoy L&LD, and give it a 9/10.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent

    Overall, I enjoy L&LD, and give it a 9/10.

    The escape from crocs/alligators sequence was great as well .... After Bond comes back to US, the film has one great sequence after another starting with the chase at airport, escape from crocs, boat chase to the finale in Caribbean with Mr. Big getting blown up
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    PS Talking about crocs/alligators, the film has snakes and sharks too :))
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