But the large one you pictured is a large Bulldog and is not the type used in SF, Mr Daulton got it wrong, but what you believe is up to you Mr Bill, ASP is still right
I will believe my eyes, instinct, and what Mr. Daulton told me. All due respect to you and ASP. Ok I am on to more productive things than the size of a porcelain Bulldog
Yeah, well, we all remember your 'It's definitely a P99 Bond is shooting in Skyfall' thread. Look where your eyes and instincts got you there too.
The fact is Mr Doulton does not own any of the Skyfall Bulldogs and the one he has in your pictures wasn't one of them. I have seen them, held them and talked extensively to the the people responsible for them, and it's the mid size version. Here's the proof....
This is the screen used prop by one of the MI6 ID cards. Credit card size...
Quite easy to see from the dimensions of the card that the dog is just under four inches high.
Now the one seen in the cardboard box at the end was bolted in to a piece of plastizote so it was held centrally at all times. You can see from this picture that it lacks the size and detail of the larger bulldog and is still the medium one....
And best of all. Here is one of the clean props sans the bomb damage, with the new Jack.
And one of the bomb damaged versions with new Jack. There were several of each version, clean and damaged used in the film, with slightly different paint jobs (all were touched up). They are all mediums. There is not a single large version used in the production. The large version is just that... large and is way out of proportion with the screen used bulldogs. You only need to examine the stills and compare it to the props it is with and to see the facial detail is different to the large bulldogs to see that.
.................................
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,554Chief of Staff
But the large one you pictured is a large Bulldog and is not the type used in SF, Mr Daulton got it wrong, but what you believe is up to you Mr Bill, ASP is still right
I will believe my eyes, instinct, and what Mr. Daulton told me. All due respect to you and ASP. Ok I am on to more productive things than the size of a porcelain Bulldog
This may be tough to take but both Asp9mm & Danjaq_0ff will be correct....they have seen the actual prop used on screen....it doesn't necessarily follow that what was supplied was used - perhaps the prop department sourced their own..?...or Mr Doulton has been mis-informed by his own people...?..but if you are happy with your purchase, then all is well... -{
ASP, you've just saved me the time of photographing mine, many thanks. I think your set of pics is the most definitive I've seen, especially of one of the actual props. Gives me a good reference to recreate the head cracks on my original (non permanent before anybody croaks) Do you by any chance, or does anybody, have the actual dimensions of the box? Would be most grateful.
Asp9mm is a gentleman and a scholar! I will never doubt his expertise again.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
As I said, it's hardly your fault when the head of RD goes into detail about the size, you kinda expect him to know his stuff. Next time you see him though, put him right
Hi All,
Having done some study of the original antique Royal Doulton bulldogs it seems this thread is worth reviving just for the sake of clarity.
First of all to accurately date a piece the stamp is a useful guide http://www.chinafinders.com.au/dating_burslem.asp
Going by the guide the example posted by Asp that was suppose to be a set use prop in Skyfall feature a back stamp B.7 from 1902-22.
My research suggest Bulldog Jack first appeared just after the end of WW1 in 1918 as a celebration of Britain's victory over Germany though I'm not sure how long the original run lasted for, maybe for a few years. At the outbreak of WW2 in 1939 Jack was resurrected to invoke patriotic spirit once more featuring a newer RD stamp B.9. The earliest dated example of WW2 era Jack I have found so far is 1939. Now it gets more interesting. Contrary to what RD website is saying in it reference to their new Skyfall Jacks, Charles Noke did not design Jack in 1941 but much earlier in 1918 as is the case of the original Jack used in Skyfall. All WW2 Jacks from 1939 to 1941? has one significant difference is the dog's left eye are either painted in circle or rudimentary splash unlike the post WW1 Jack were the eye is well painted also seen in the original Jack used in Skyfall. Of course unless someone can point to me to an example that show otherwise I would be happy to retract
If I'm correct then RD has erroneously given the wrong information about the screen used original Jack, some Bond fans might be paying top dollars for a dated 1941 Jack with black circle painted eye believing it is close to screen accurate when they should be looking at the post WW1 version with good left eye. On both eras of production I seem to come across the large and small ones more frequently than the middle size ones, I probably attribute that to Skyfall )
Hi All,
Having done some study of the original antique Royal Doulton bulldogs it seems this thread is worth reviving just for the sake of clarity.
First of all to accurately date a piece the stamp is a useful guide http://www.chinafinders.com.au/dating_burslem.asp
Going by the guide the example posted by Asp that was suppose to be a set use prop in Skyfall feature a back stamp B.7 from 1902-22.
My research suggest Bulldog Jack first appeared just after the end of WW1 in 1918 as a celebration of Britain's victory over Germany though I'm not sure how long the original run lasted for, maybe for a few years. At the outbreak of WW2 in 1939 Jack was resurrected to invoke patriotic spirit once more featuring a newer RD stamp B.9. The earliest dated example of WW2 era Jack I have found so far is 1939. Now it gets more interesting. Contrary to what RD website is saying in it reference to their new Skyfall Jacks, Charles Noke did not design Jack in 1941 but much earlier in 1918 as is the case of the original Jack used in Skyfall. All WW2 Jacks from 1939 to 1941? has one significant difference is the dog's left eye are either painted in circle or rudimentary splash unlike the post WW1 Jack were the eye is well painted also seen in the original Jack used in Skyfall. Of course unless someone can point to me to an example that show otherwise I would be happy to retract
If I'm correct then RD has erroneously given the wrong information about the screen used original Jack, some Bond fans might be paying top dollars for a dated 1941 Jack with black circle painted eye believing it is close to screen accurate when they should be looking at the post WW1 version with good left eye. On both eras of production I seem to come across the large and small ones more frequently than the middle size ones, I probably attribute that to Skyfall )
Hi ST, I'm not an expert on the subject of Royal Doulton however 100% this is the base of the screen prop from Olivia Mansfield's memorial box. The size of the piece is medium -{
Hi ST, I'm not an expert on the subject of Royal Doulton however 100% this is the base of the screen prop from Olivia Mansfield's memorial box. The size of the piece is medium -{
If you look at the link I posted the stamp on the bulldog is from 1902-22 but since Jack made it first appearance just after WW1 I would say the Jack used in Skyfall is between 1918-22.
Interestingly I was watching Skyfall the other day and freeze frame a few shots of the bulldog and compare it to the photos of the prop used examples above and the paintwork don't quite match. Not saying they weren't used for the film but it is possible that the props people had several Jacks but the director decide to use footage from particular ones and the two above did not make it in the final edit
Hi ST, I'm not an expert on the subject of Royal Doulton however 100% this is the base of the screen prop from Olivia Mansfield's memorial box. The size of the piece is medium -{
If you look at the link I posted the stamp on the bulldog is from 1902-22 but since Jack made it first appearance just after WW1 I would say the Jack used in Skyfall is between 1918-22.
Interestingly I was watching Skyfall the other day and freeze frame a few shots of the bulldog and compare it to the photos of the prop used examples above and the paintwork don't quite match. Not saying they weren't used for the film but it is possible that the props people had several Jacks but the director decide to use footage from particular ones and the two above did not make it in the final edit
There were a small quantity utilised on the production. Each had the facial details altered slightly to match the tone of the scene which included the dremelled blown up & glued back together examples. The real expert on this subject is ASP9mm -{
The large Jack has the circle painted eye. Without looking at the stamp I would guess it is WW2 1939 to early 1940s. If it has the proper Skyfall eye it most certainly be a 1918-22 original.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
You can't go off the screen used markings on the eyes or collar or Union flag to date the screen used pieces. This is simply because they used several Jacks from different periods and applied details to make them resemble each other. They also cleaned some up and made them look virtually new with new fresh paint work and painted white body. These you see at the start of the film. So in short, the eye shape may be from one period, but it may have been applied to a later era Jack by the production.
They bought in several Jacks for SKYFALL, and made multiples for both the fixed box version, the smashed/repaired version and the clean version seen at the start of the film. This is insurance if one is damaged during filming, obviously they can't stop filming while a new one is sourced.
All of the screen used ones had waterbased applied crack details and these rubbed off through use. After filming they decided it would be a good idea to preserve the paintwork, so they were sent to be clear coated. Sadly this reacted slightly with the crack detailing and it spread slightly as the clear coat dried. So all of the screen used Jacks have a slightly washed crack effect over the top of the head now.
In the SPECTRE teaser pic with the slate, you see Jack back again. The crack over the top of the head travels at a different angle to those seen in SKYFALL and the line is thicker. This can either mean it is a new Jack, or one of the original SKYFALL made ones that was backup and never appeared on screen. Due to the spreading, thicker crack line, I would say it was, as this is what happened when they were clear-coated.
The size used was MEDIUM. 6 inches long by 4 inches high-ish.
Hi Asp,
Thankyou for your input.
I can understand some WW2 Jacks being use too because sourcing good amount of 1918-22 originals can be pretty tough. The example you posted has the stamp use for the 1918-22. I suppose it is like filming "Saving Private Ryan" were many of the props were actually from the Vietnam war with subtle differences but disguised as WW2 because sourcing enough original wartime gear is too expensive. In light of this information I have to say the bulldogs used in Skyfall is meant to be the 1918-22 Jack even though some were actually repainted later WW2 version.
Apart from the paintwork to the eyes and general age there is little to go by between the two period of Jacks except maybe the ears, the earlier version looks a little bit more batty and refined and it seems all the better closeup shots of Jack in Skyfall has or at least appear to have this type of ears though I cant tell the one in the box due to the angle.
Comments
Yeah, well, we all remember your 'It's definitely a P99 Bond is shooting in Skyfall' thread. Look where your eyes and instincts got you there too.
The fact is Mr Doulton does not own any of the Skyfall Bulldogs and the one he has in your pictures wasn't one of them. I have seen them, held them and talked extensively to the the people responsible for them, and it's the mid size version. Here's the proof....
This is the screen used prop by one of the MI6 ID cards. Credit card size...
Quite easy to see from the dimensions of the card that the dog is just under four inches high.
Now the one seen in the cardboard box at the end was bolted in to a piece of plastizote so it was held centrally at all times. You can see from this picture that it lacks the size and detail of the larger bulldog and is still the medium one....
And best of all. Here is one of the clean props sans the bomb damage, with the new Jack.
And one of the bomb damaged versions with new Jack. There were several of each version, clean and damaged used in the film, with slightly different paint jobs (all were touched up). They are all mediums. There is not a single large version used in the production. The large version is just that... large and is way out of proportion with the screen used bulldogs. You only need to examine the stills and compare it to the props it is with and to see the facial detail is different to the large bulldogs to see that.
This may be tough to take but both Asp9mm & Danjaq_0ff will be correct....they have seen the actual prop used on screen....it doesn't necessarily follow that what was supplied was used - perhaps the prop department sourced their own..?...or Mr Doulton has been mis-informed by his own people...?..but if you are happy with your purchase, then all is well... -{
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
What happened to the first and second?
Having done some study of the original antique Royal Doulton bulldogs it seems this thread is worth reviving just for the sake of clarity.
First of all to accurately date a piece the stamp is a useful guide
http://www.chinafinders.com.au/dating_burslem.asp
Going by the guide the example posted by Asp that was suppose to be a set use prop in Skyfall feature a back stamp B.7 from 1902-22.
My research suggest Bulldog Jack first appeared just after the end of WW1 in 1918 as a celebration of Britain's victory over Germany though I'm not sure how long the original run lasted for, maybe for a few years. At the outbreak of WW2 in 1939 Jack was resurrected to invoke patriotic spirit once more featuring a newer RD stamp B.9. The earliest dated example of WW2 era Jack I have found so far is 1939. Now it gets more interesting. Contrary to what RD website is saying in it reference to their new Skyfall Jacks, Charles Noke did not design Jack in 1941 but much earlier in 1918 as is the case of the original Jack used in Skyfall. All WW2 Jacks from 1939 to 1941? has one significant difference is the dog's left eye are either painted in circle or rudimentary splash unlike the post WW1 Jack were the eye is well painted also seen in the original Jack used in Skyfall. Of course unless someone can point to me to an example that show otherwise I would be happy to retract
If I'm correct then RD has erroneously given the wrong information about the screen used original Jack, some Bond fans might be paying top dollars for a dated 1941 Jack with black circle painted eye believing it is close to screen accurate when they should be looking at the post WW1 version with good left eye. On both eras of production I seem to come across the large and small ones more frequently than the middle size ones, I probably attribute that to Skyfall
Hi ST, I'm not an expert on the subject of Royal Doulton however 100% this is the base of the screen prop from Olivia Mansfield's memorial box. The size of the piece is medium -{
If you look at the link I posted the stamp on the bulldog is from 1902-22 but since Jack made it first appearance just after WW1 I would say the Jack used in Skyfall is between 1918-22.
Interestingly I was watching Skyfall the other day and freeze frame a few shots of the bulldog and compare it to the photos of the prop used examples above and the paintwork don't quite match. Not saying they weren't used for the film but it is possible that the props people had several Jacks but the director decide to use footage from particular ones and the two above did not make it in the final edit
There were a small quantity utilised on the production. Each had the facial details altered slightly to match the tone of the scene which included the dremelled blown up & glued back together examples. The real expert on this subject is ASP9mm -{
They bought in several Jacks for SKYFALL, and made multiples for both the fixed box version, the smashed/repaired version and the clean version seen at the start of the film. This is insurance if one is damaged during filming, obviously they can't stop filming while a new one is sourced.
All of the screen used ones had waterbased applied crack details and these rubbed off through use. After filming they decided it would be a good idea to preserve the paintwork, so they were sent to be clear coated. Sadly this reacted slightly with the crack detailing and it spread slightly as the clear coat dried. So all of the screen used Jacks have a slightly washed crack effect over the top of the head now.
In the SPECTRE teaser pic with the slate, you see Jack back again. The crack over the top of the head travels at a different angle to those seen in SKYFALL and the line is thicker. This can either mean it is a new Jack, or one of the original SKYFALL made ones that was backup and never appeared on screen. Due to the spreading, thicker crack line, I would say it was, as this is what happened when they were clear-coated.
The size used was MEDIUM. 6 inches long by 4 inches high-ish.
Thankyou for your input.
I can understand some WW2 Jacks being use too because sourcing good amount of 1918-22 originals can be pretty tough. The example you posted has the stamp use for the 1918-22. I suppose it is like filming "Saving Private Ryan" were many of the props were actually from the Vietnam war with subtle differences but disguised as WW2 because sourcing enough original wartime gear is too expensive. In light of this information I have to say the bulldogs used in Skyfall is meant to be the 1918-22 Jack even though some were actually repainted later WW2 version.
Apart from the paintwork to the eyes and general age there is little to go by between the two period of Jacks except maybe the ears, the earlier version looks a little bit more batty and refined and it seems all the better closeup shots of Jack in Skyfall has or at least appear to have this type of ears though I cant tell the one in the box due to the angle.
Following up, is this current size an incorrect size, please?
http://www.ryman.co.uk/ryman-cd-storage-box-h135xw265xd150mm-capacity-24-cds
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Thanks for the info here and ASP for some tips on the various dated models.