The romance is the weakest element of Casino Royale. There's enough there to understand it, but not much to really feel it, and a lot of that comes from the writing.
The romance is the weakest element of Casino Royale. There's enough there to understand it, but not much to really feel it, and a lot of that comes from the writing.
There are some really good lines in CR (especially during the torture), but the bad ones stand out too much for. Moonraker has probably the worst lines of any Bond film (especially from Drax and Dr. Goodhead), but because the film isn't supposed to be taken seriously I can accept the bad lines. CR, on the other hand, is supposed to be a realistic film, and I really don't feel like Bond and Vesper's relationship is realistic, from both the dialogue and the acting.
if you watch the youtube videos of Bond romances there are alot of 'I really loved Vesper' type of remarks which reflect the general publics remarks. I even had the girl who came with us crying over her death.
But it doesn't reflect you - which is understandable.
I actually believe Casino Royale is one of the best Bonds and alot of that is down to dialogue and acting..
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
I think Casino Royale is one of the best, too, but the romance needed about ten more minutes and better dialogue, as much of the Vesper/Bond banter is not romantic so much as verbal sparring. The falling in love parts are largely skipped over -- replete with the montage cliche -- for the sake of keeping the plot moving.
I'd argue that it's really the acting that saves the romance from such clunker lines as "You're not going to let me in there, are you? You've got your armour back on." Who talks like that except characters in movies and comic books written with a heavy hand? But Eva Green, in particular, manages to convey more with her expressions than the script provides for, and Daniel Craig, limited as he is with Bond's emotions, nonetheless gives more emotional range with the character than he will in the next two films combined. In terms of a romance, this is an example where the sum is greater than the parts.
I think Casino Royale is one of the best, too, but the romance needed about ten more minutes and better dialogue, as much of the Vesper/Bond banter is not romantic so much as verbal sparring. The falling in love parts are largely skipped over -- replete with the montage cliche -- for the sake of keeping the plot moving.
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
II'd argue that it's really the acting that saves the romance from such clunker lines as "You're not going to let me in there, are you? You've got your armour back on." Who talks like that except characters in movies and comic books written with a heavy hand?
Or people in Brosnan movies ) ) ) Its about his general demeanour. As soon as he llets it down, the armour is up again. Women always try and get through to the inner person sometimes..
But Eva Green, in particular, manages to convey more with her expressions than the script provides for, and Daniel Craig, limited as he is with Bond's emotions, nonetheless gives more emotional range with the character than he will in the next two films combined. In terms of a romance, this is an example where the sum is greater than the parts.
Eva Green is just watchable. Despite her best efforts she falls for him. And Daniel? He gets the best written Bond role since LTK A gamechanger you might add..
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
I honestly thought that scene had some of the worst dialogue in any film I've ever watched. Maybe it's just that the acting and directing wasn't good enough to pull it off.
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
I honestly thought that scene had some of the worst dialogue in any film I've ever watched. Maybe it's just that the acting and directing wasn't good enough to pull it off.
Oh dear oh dear
I think we are watching two different films.
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
No I think you are having two different opinions. I don't understand why this discussion is going on for as long as it has. Luckily people have different tastes in movies otherwise the Bond franchise would have died a long time ago.
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
I honestly thought that scene had some of the worst dialogue in any film I've ever watched. Maybe it's just that the acting and directing wasn't good enough to pull it off.
The sparring it okay. I wouldn't call it romantic. The problem is there's nothing equal to the sparring that happens later that really is -- it's mostly forgettable or, as in the case of the "armour" types of lines, so unnatural, it sticks out as movie dialogue. Romantic dialogue is among the hardest to write -- it must seem both poetic and natural at the same time, and it must be believable as something two people would say to one another when no one else can hear them speak.
I show the train scene in Casino Royale in class and then show them the corresponding train scene in North by Northwest. Guess which overwhelmingly is considered more sexually tense and sophisticated?
No I think you are having two different opinions. I don't understand why this discussion is going on for as long as it has. Luckily people have different tastes in movies otherwise the Bond franchise would have died a long time ago.
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
We learn from discussing things -- both about differing points of view and our own. I know I've changed by opinion because of what others have presented as well as reinforced my own. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game of one person winning over another. It doesn't have to be a contest. In the course of discussion, we can get food for thought, and that can be enough.
No I think you are having two different opinions. I don't understand why this discussion is going on for as long as it has. Luckily people have different tastes in movies otherwise the Bond franchise would have died a long time ago.
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
We learn from discussing things -- both about differing points of view and our own. I know I've changed by opinion because of what others have presented as well as reinforced my own. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game of one person winning over another. It doesn't have to be a contest. In the course of discussion, we can get food for thought, and that can be enough.
1+
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Usually from discussions, It helps reinforce just how right I am........ All the time )
Seriously, it's always good to see things from a different perspective, As I've changed
My opinion on a few things from chatting here. {[]
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
People who don't like YOLT are just dumb. Luckily, I'm a genius.
A great Bond film for me that doesn't get the love it deserves is License To Kill. Although I have noticed more and more people are turning to the dark side of Bond and are giving this film its overdue respect, and it doesn't get much darker than this in the Bond world. Look I can appreciate a Tarzan yell or double taking pigeon as much as the next man, but sometimes what you want is a steely eyed Dalton exacting revenge on a powerful drug lord for his half eaten (but rather surprisingly high spirited) friend. Its a great film. And it doesn't hurt to have my Bond crush Carey Lowell in it.... sigh :x
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
I honestly thought that scene had some of the worst dialogue in any film I've ever watched. Maybe it's just that the acting and directing wasn't good enough to pull it off.
Oh dear oh dear
I think we are watching two different films.
For what it's worth, I'm with you broadshoulder. To me CR is a great Bond film with stellar dialogue and performances, and some exciting and well-executed actions sequences as well. Surely Craig's best Bond film and one of the overall best films in the series. {[]
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
People who don't like YOLT are just dumb. Luckily, I'm a genius.
I have read a few of them. Live And Let Die, From Russia With Love and Moonraker. Its interesting how the film of FRWL follows the novel quite accurately whereas Moonraker bears little, if any resemblance to the book. I do have a soft spot for Moonraker but I think if they used Flemings story it could have made an amazing film. Its certainly a great book. Fleming's strengths appear to be strong plots and characters which seem ready made to appear on film. Reading Diamonds Are Forever now and again part of me wishes that the serious tone of the novel was transferred on to the screen but then we wouldn't have got the moon buggy chase would we
I wont post any Spoilers from the Ones you haven't read
Cheers -{ .
Just had a look at your ranking list and see you are a OHMSS fan like myself. For me growing up it was only Connery and Moore and I dismissed the Lazenby film without giving it a fair chance. Once I watched it I couldn't believe all those years of ignoring such a great film. I suppose this used to be the ultimate film I like but others don't, but it seems to have lots of fans now. Heard many good things about OHMSS the book and how the film sticks close to its plot so this is the one i am going to read next.
Its interesting how the film of FRWL follows the novel quite accurately whereas Moonraker bears little, if any resemblance to the book. I do have a soft spot for Moonraker but I think if they used Flemings story it could have made an amazing film. Its certainly a great book. Fleming's strengths appear to be strong plots and characters which seem ready made to appear on film. Reading Diamonds Are Forever now and again part of me wishes that the serious tone of the novel was transferred on to the screen but then we wouldn't have got the moon buggy chase would we
Agree entirely (aside for having a soft spot for Moonraker the film). I dare say that all Fleming books are better than their cinematic counterparts, without exception. I think films like Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker and the like are missed opportunities - they could have been so much better.
I love TND and like QoS, even though they get plenty of flak.
I won't say that CR is a bad film, but I don't love it as much as many do.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
A Bond film I like but others don't like, definitely A View To A Kill. A film I dislike that most like - errrr... Probably Tomorrow Never Dies but I honestly don't know what people think of that film. I know that it is one of the weaker ones in most's eyes.
Comments
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
if you watch the youtube videos of Bond romances there are alot of 'I really loved Vesper' type of remarks which reflect the general publics remarks. I even had the girl who came with us crying over her death.
But it doesn't reflect you - which is understandable.
I actually believe Casino Royale is one of the best Bonds and alot of that is down to dialogue and acting..
I'd argue that it's really the acting that saves the romance from such clunker lines as "You're not going to let me in there, are you? You've got your armour back on." Who talks like that except characters in movies and comic books written with a heavy hand? But Eva Green, in particular, manages to convey more with her expressions than the script provides for, and Daniel Craig, limited as he is with Bond's emotions, nonetheless gives more emotional range with the character than he will in the next two films combined. In terms of a romance, this is an example where the sum is greater than the parts.
Verbal sparring? Thats often how romance happens. In the early scenes they are trying to size each other up. I
particularly like the line "Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance.
Thats good stuff. Both sizing up each others insecurities
Or people in Brosnan movies
Eva Green is just watchable. Despite her best efforts she falls for him. And Daniel? He gets the best written Bond role since LTK A gamechanger you might add..
I honestly thought that scene had some of the worst dialogue in any film I've ever watched. Maybe it's just that the acting and directing wasn't good enough to pull it off.
Oh dear oh dear
I think we are watching two different films.
I know I'm not going to convince the people who don't like YOLT that it is one of the most enjoyable movies of the franchise. Because it is not, it is for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should think so.
I show the train scene in Casino Royale in class and then show them the corresponding train scene in North by Northwest. Guess which overwhelmingly is considered more sexually tense and sophisticated?
1+
Seriously, it's always good to see things from a different perspective, As I've changed
My opinion on a few things from chatting here. {[]
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
For what it's worth, I'm with you broadshoulder. To me CR is a great Bond film with stellar dialogue and performances, and some exciting and well-executed actions sequences as well. Surely Craig's best Bond film and one of the overall best films in the series. {[]
Right on, my brother! {[]
I have read a few of them. Live And Let Die, From Russia With Love and Moonraker. Its interesting how the film of FRWL follows the novel quite accurately whereas Moonraker bears little, if any resemblance to the book. I do have a soft spot for Moonraker but I think if they used Flemings story it could have made an amazing film. Its certainly a great book. Fleming's strengths appear to be strong plots and characters which seem ready made to appear on film. Reading Diamonds Are Forever now and again part of me wishes that the serious tone of the novel was transferred on to the screen but then we wouldn't have got the moon buggy chase would we
I wont post any Spoilers from the Ones you haven't read
Cheers -{ .
Just had a look at your ranking list and see you are a OHMSS fan like myself. For me growing up it was only Connery and Moore and I dismissed the Lazenby film without giving it a fair chance. Once I watched it I couldn't believe all those years of ignoring such a great film. I suppose this used to be the ultimate film I like but others don't, but it seems to have lots of fans now. Heard many good things about OHMSS the book and how the film sticks close to its plot so this is the one i am going to read next.
Agree entirely (aside for having a soft spot for Moonraker the film). I dare say that all Fleming books are better than their cinematic counterparts, without exception. I think films like Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker and the like are missed opportunities - they could have been so much better.
I won't say that CR is a bad film, but I don't love it as much as many do.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan