Live and Let Die...

O07O07 Oxford, EnglandPosts: 50MI6 Agent
edited April 2015 in The James Bond Films
Is there anyone on this board who would dare to say that Live and Let Die is not a great Bond film?

Roger Moore hits the ground running as Bond, it's like he's been the character for years already. Notice how there appears to be an attempt to distance Moore from the Connery Bond, for instance there is no meeting with M/Moneypenny at the office and no scene in which Roger wears a tuxedo. Roger is so cool and gives us a good showing of what his Bond is about in the scenes in which he tails some villains to the Fillet of Soul restaurant in Harlem, gets caught and introduces himself to Solitaire, Mr. Big and the gang. He is so exceptional, he really is. He's stoney cold too, he's more than happy to kill Rosie unless she talks. The moments in which she runs off from his ultimatum and to her death are spectacular. Roger is really the tough guy here.

The addition of the Occult in Bond added a fresh element, apparently played as "real" too, there are a number of pieces that cannot be explained, Baron Samedi for one, he truly appears to be the man who cannot die! Jane Seymour as Solitaire is an incredible Bond Girl, Tee Hee and Whisper are cool henchmen the plans from the wonderful boss Kananga are very plausible... it's quite a gritty film actually, adult themes, with the occasional sprinkle of lightness that Moore delivered better than anyone.

Roger M007e nailed the character first time out, kudos to the Man.

Sean who?

Anyone dare speak out of turn about Live and Let Die?
«13

Comments

  • SFPROPSSFPROPS USAPosts: 380MI6 Agent
    Moore did a very good job with what he had.

    The plot of the movie was just too hokey. Between the "Mr. Big" disguise to Solitar's virginal powers.

    The book was better, though about 1000 times more racist.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    O07 wrote:
    Sean who?
    Hey- I love LALD but this comment is pretty wack IMHO. :007)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Moore does an excellent job in this film. It's a really fun story, but it has some rather silly moments. The boat chase is fantastic, but it gets too silly. I remember laughing all the way through the boat chase the first time I watched it as a kid. And the aeroplane/car chase as well ("Holy ****!"). It was the second Moore Bond film I saw after Moonraker. I really feel like watching it again right now! I think I rank it fourth for Moore's films. It just lacks the substance of TSWLM, FYEO and OP.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Live and Let Die is not a bad movie, but it's one that stands because of it's commercial impact rather than it's quality alone. It's famous for being famous.

    I wouldn't call it any better than Octopussy or Man with the Golden Gun. It just sold more units. LALD does have a strong cast of actors, some nice atmospheres and its a strong debut for Moore. This movie really helps makes a case for Moore being the best (or one of the best) Bond actor.

    The problem is that the plot is so formulaic, in every way shape and form. For example, why does Dr. Kananga have an evil lair and a pit of evil-killer sharks? Oh, because that's what Thunderball and You Only Live Twice does. And then we delve into the movie's racially ignorant bits, as well using the character of Solitaire to basically say "you're totally useless after a man has taken your virginity".

    Simply put, if LALD was the 6th Moore film instead of the first, it would've had much less impact.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I love LALD, :x Moore is great as Bond, great collection of villains, we even get
    A fantastic henchman Tee Hee, with a metal arm. -{ , a stunning set piece in the
    Boat chase. No wonder it made a fortune at the box office. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    Love LALD. I think they got it all right, the villains, Bond girl, Bond himself....
    1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,238MI6 Agent
    It is different branding. The film is similar in many ways to Connery's debut Dr No, but feels different. In both cases I'd argue the lack of Barry score helps actually. But it's great to have Moore, were it to have Connery it would just seem like a naff version of Dr No, with an ageing, gone to seed star.

    That said, now I feel that Moore is akward with his dialogue, it seems written for Connery who could send up the smart ass British stuff, whereas Moore seems awfully pleased with himself.

    The film is a great bit of afternoon fun, and somehow it skirts around some unfortunate or potentially uncomfortable stuff. I mean, today it might come across as 'cocky white boy steals black pimp's gal because he is the better lover' but back then, because it somehow seems innocent, like a ghost train experience. Bond copping off with Solitaire doesn't have any kind of racial subtext, it was a time in TV or cinema when sex meant you just take your clothes off for convenience when getting into bed, and not much else... :s It all seems smooth and agreeable. That said, Kotto's Mr Big is an interesting 3D villain, effortlessly done when Craig's villains are meant to have some kind of angst but struggle with it. He has a brooding presence and a way with a line.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    I'd go with most of that, NP, except the Barry bit obviously :). It's rarely pointed out how similar DN and LALD are in many ways.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I think I started a thread on the similarities between Dr No and LALD. ......
    ..... Long ago, on a thread far, far away ......... ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    I'd go with most of that, NP, except the Barry bit obviously :). It's rarely pointed out how similar DN and LALD are in many ways.

    Well, to be fair, you could also say it's similar to Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice. A lot of the Bond films are similar to each other, because, well, that's the Bond formula. For a big debut, they wanted to play it safe with what works.

    But I do see the specific similarities. Quarrel and Quarrel Jr. Bond going on a foreign island to investigate the death of a colleague, finding a number of spooky things to scare off the settlers and stumbling into the villain's evil lair.
  • O07O07 Oxford, EnglandPosts: 50MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    I don't see it as being Bond formula at all. The "evil lair" is quite clearly the distribution plant for his smuggling scheme and the sharks were all over the novel. Where's the gadget laden car? The end of the/take over the world intentions of the main villain? Where's the huge set piece stunt featuring Bond in the pre-titles? Where is John Barry?

    For "formula" Bond films see YOLT, DAF, TSWLM, MR, TND, DAD. They are all rather similar, basically all feature rather insane plotlines which see's a variation of Bond teaming up with a Female agent from a different country to avert World War 3. Giant villain bases, Space lasers, gadgets in Cars, Watches and all other sorts of ridiculous items. Now THAT is formula.

    LALD certainly goes against the established formula for the majority of the film IMO. It's almost deliberately anti-Bond, indeed the anti-hero was a big thing in the early 70's.

    I note the similarities with Dr. No, but hey, aren't the books similar?
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    I think I started a thread on the similarities between Dr No and LALD. ......
    ..... Long ago, on a thread far, far away ......... ;)

    Thanks TP, that would be this one: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/43128/similarities-between-dr-no-and-lald/ Some of the similarities are more than formula, I'd say.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    LALD was one of the first Bond Films I watched, and it's been one of my favorites ever since -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    O07 wrote:
    Anyone dare speak out of turn about Live and Let Die?

    Now it's my turn: I would certainly like LALD a lot better if JW Pepper's scene was reduced to just the one boat jump. That chase drags on a bit too long and JW really starts to get on my nerves.
    O07 wrote:
    Now THAT is formula.

    You say "formula" like it's a bad thing. There's quite a few Bond trademarks I miss in LALD, but I can respect they were doing something different. Good post. -{
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    In my Opinion, nobody else but Moore could have done LALD -{ The Script was perfect for him.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • 002002 New ZealandPosts: 558MI6 Agent
    Live and Let Die is a damned fine addition to the series and an exceptionally strong debut for Moore. Funny to think how this stacks up against the next one.

    It's also a damned good book, despite the casual 1954 racism...
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    002 wrote:
    It's also a damned good book, despite the casual 1954 racism...

    Agreed -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • DutchfingerDutchfinger Holland With LovePosts: 1,240MI6 Agent
    In coming a raging Jarvio in 3 .. 2 ... :))

    I can agree with the OP, i'm not a huge fan of LALD myself. It's a mixed bag to me and looking at it, it's probably my least favorite Roger Moore movie, closely followed by AVTAK. I'm not such a huge fan of neither the novell nor the movie, the voodoo theme doesn't work well together with 007 for me. Rosie Carver is annoying, having a supernatural man that never seems to die is weird and the death of Kananga is a big joke, I don't find Sherrif Pepper that funny in this movie either, I find him funnier in TMWTGG even though he seemed so much more out of place in that one.

    Roger Moore himself cracks me up in this movie, he's so casual when he gets taken away by Mr. Big's goons, and him tricking Solitaire into bed is hilarious :)) - Jane Seymour herself, by the way is also a great addition to the movie. And Teehee and Kananga are very memorable villians. Both the boat chase and the crocodile leap were very impressive.

    But looking at the whole thing in retrospective for some reason there's something that doesn't appeal to me enough, it ended up being in my lower half of Bond movies. Atleast watching it after DAF shows you that it's FAR superior to that, but on it's own, to me it ended up being a very mediocre entry.

    (Just my two cents, going to hide in a cave before Jarvio arrives in this thread now :)) )
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  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,238MI6 Agent
    While John Barry is brilliant, I am not sure that his kind of score would improve or work with either Dr No or LALD. It is a tough call. You see, LALD worked by dispensing with a lot of the trad elements associated with Connery's Bond, and the swaggering, brass themes we had with Barry then imo would not really work with Moore. (MR's score is a different story).

    Likewise, the trademark Barry swagger is not really needed for Dr No, as it is not quite a Bond film yet somehow. It sort of is, but just finding its feet a bit. I mean, it is more CR than CR, as we see Bond as a cool dude thrown into an unusual situation and holding his own. He does nothing that superhuman or amazing for much of the movie, he is just incredibly cool, and that is enough. It is as if No is the making of him. That said, I must contradict myself cos the Bond theme arranged by Barry (ahem!) is just totally Bond, it doesn't get any more Bond than that.

    Some critic called No the 'first fastest and best' Bond film which seemed ludicrous to me as a kid but watching it now imo it stands up far better than many of the others because it is not overburdened by expectations and its own history. It does not overload the plot or offer too many diversions or sub plots, or naff gadgets which seemed cool at the time (i.e. all of Thunderball really).
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,882Chief of Staff
    It's time for me to dust off a topic I made way back in 2004, when I first moved to Louisiana (I left it two years later), entitled "Why Oh Why Live and Let Die?" It was deleted from AJB ages ago, but I saved it for a rainy day. That day is today:

    Having recently moved to the land of swamps, alligators, and rednecks, I thought I'd fire up the DVD player, pop in Live and Let Die, and see how it strikes me. To my surprise, I found myself paying less attention to what I wanted to--the locations--and more to the plot; and one question kept popping up: WHY? To my mind, much of the film flat-out doesn't make sense, and this contributes to the fact that LALD has never been one of my favorites. So, what are those "whys?" Well, here we go:

    WHY, at the beginning of the film, are Kananga and Mr. Big (then thought to be separate characters) being monitored? Both the British and the Americans are spying on Kananga while he's in New York, but we are never told what he's suspected of doing or why he even should be watched. (This being the age of Shaft, maybe we're to assume The Man has it out for the brothers?) Likewise, why is Mr. Big's Fillet of Soul restaurant in New Orleans being watched? At this point in the movie, no one suspects Kananga of being involved with Mr. Big--witness Felix's comment, "Mr. Big? Where does he fit into this mess?"--so is the monitoring of Mr. Big a separate activity?

    Going along with that, WHY does Kananga have Hamilton the New Orleans agent and the New York agent killed? Baines the San Monique agent at least found something incriminating; but the other two agents are just keeping their eyes open. What better way to announce that you're up to no good than by executing three SIS agents within a 24-hour period? That said,

    WHY are the British even involved in this case? Is San Monique a member of the British Commonwealth? Other than that, no explanation is provided for why it's in the interest of HMSS to keep an eye on an island dictator--remember, until Bond discovers it, no one knows about Kananga's heroin-growing operation, and even his plan there involves addicting AMERICANS, not Brits--nor do we know why the Americans needed Hamilton in New Orleans. Surely the Yanks have one agent who can hang around across the street from Fillet of Soul? In all respects, this should be an AMERICAN operation.

    WHY does Bond need Solitaire on this mission? When he swoops into her house he claims he wants her to tell him where Kananga is (uh, Bond--Kananga was just AT THE FREAKIN' HOUSE!), and the next day he has her take him to the spot where Baines was killed, even though Solitaire has apparently never been there! The more I think about it, the more I believe Bond drops in on her simply to slip her the deck of stacked cards and to get it on.

    WHY, when Bond gets near the poppy field, does Kananga say, "If he finds it, kill him"? Kananga had been trying to kill Bond from the minute he arrived in New York--shouldn't his order be, "Whether or not he finds it, KILL HIM!"?

    WHY is Bond sent to San Monique with only Quarrel Jr. to take out Kananga? First of all, again, why aren't the Americans taking care of this? Second, why is Bond sent in alone? In the previous five films Bond had attacked the enemy's HQ as part of an army--has Bond become such a superman that he can take on all the henchmen all by himself? Or are the budget cuts at the CIA (and for the movie) so extensive that they can pay only one guy?

    And, finally, WHY is the business with the shark pellet even in the film? OK, I can understand that Bond needs the pellet because he thinks he's about to be eaten by a shark; but once he breaks free of his bonds and leaps away from the pool, why does he keep the pellet in his mouth, even while Kananga attacks him with a knife? Was he thinking, "OK, Plan B: force Kananga into the pool, make him swallow the pellet, and blow him up, so I can make a witty quip about his inflated opinion of himself"?

    I have a few more "why's," but they're pretty minor in comparison. Thanks for reading.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :)) many of those I'd never even thought about. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    While John Barry is brilliant, I am not sure that his kind of score would improve or work with either Dr No or LALD. It is a tough call. You see, LALD worked by dispensing with a lot of the trad elements associated with Connery's Bond, and the swaggering, brass themes we had with Barry then imo would not really work with Moore. (MR's score is a different story).

    Likewise, the trademark Barry swagger is not really needed for Dr No, as it is not quite a Bond film yet somehow. It sort of is, but just finding its feet a bit. I mean, it is more CR than CR, as we see Bond as a cool dude thrown into an unusual situation and holding his own. He does nothing that superhuman or amazing for much of the movie, he is just incredibly cool, and that is enough. It is as if No is the making of him. That said, I must contradict myself cos the Bond theme arranged by Barry (ahem!) is just totally Bond, it doesn't get any more Bond than that.

    Some critic called No the 'first fastest and best' Bond film which seemed ludicrous to me as a kid but watching it now imo it stands up far better than many of the others because it is not overburdened by expectations and its own history. It does not overload the plot or offer too many diversions or sub plots, or naff gadgets which seemed cool at the time (i.e. all of Thunderball really).

    George Martin's score for LALD is fantastic, and it fits well with the film. But I think it's the only Bond film that wouldn't be improved with a Barry score. A Barry score, however, could definitely have helped Dr. No feel more polished. The best parts of the score are the Bond theme, which was arranged by Barry, if not partially or completely written by him. Barry's sound was still a big part of the Dr. No score, but Monty Norman's scored parts are really weak. His songs were great for the film, but a Barry score could have elevated the film and made it feel more like the Bond you think is developing in the film. There really is no development of Bond in Dr. No like there is in CR.

    I agree that Moore's Bond didn't suit the brass (nor the guitar), and I like how Barry changed that for the four Moore Bond films. MR's score is brilliant! It's the only thing that tries to keep the film down to earth. If MR had a Bill Conti score I think Bond fans would start putting it below the bottom of their rankings!
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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    It'
    WHY are the British even involved in this case? Is San Monique a member of the British Commonwealth? Other than that, no explanation is provided for why it's in the interest of HMSS to keep an eye on an island dictator--remember, until Bond discovers it, no one knows about Kananga's heroin-growing operation, and even his plan there involves addicting AMERICANS, not Brits--nor do we know why the Americans needed Hamilton in New Orleans. Surely the Yanks have one agent who can hang around across the street from Fillet of Soul? In all respects, this should be an AMERICAN operation.

    ng.

    I though three British agents were killed at beginning - the guy at the UN, the guy in N'awlins and the man at the voodoo festival.

    Surely three deaths would perk M's interest?
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    1+

    Three British Agents were killed, and that would give MI6 Cause to investigate.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    I can't believe I missed all those similarities between LALD and DN :s .
    My own thoughts on LALD - its a bit of a mixed bag but the good far outweighs the bad.
    It was definitely my favourite and most memorable Bond film when I was growing up. If it was on TV I had to watch it..... Bond defeats a metal armed man with a pair of nail scissors! He leaps to safety by jumping on the backs of crocodiles!! He blows a man to bits with a shark gun pellet!!!
    Now that I am older but probably no wiser its not my favourite anymore, but I will always look back on this film fondly :)
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,882Chief of Staff
    Three British Agents were killed, and that would give MI6 Cause to investigate.

    AOS and Broadshoulder, what about my original question--what were those British agents DOING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Dawes was observing Kananga.

    But Hamilton and Baines Involvement is never explained.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,882Chief of Staff
    I hate to quote myself, AOS, but here you go:
    Hardyboy wrote:
    WHY, at the beginning of the film, are Kananga and Mr. Big (then thought to be separate characters) being monitored? Both the British and the Americans are spying on Kananga while he's in New York, but we are never told what he's suspected of doing or why he even should be watched.
    . . .

    WHY are the British even involved in this case? Is San Monique a member of the British Commonwealth? Other than that, no explanation is provided for why it's in the interest of HMSS to keep an eye on an island dictator--remember, until Bond discovers it, no one knows about Kananga's heroin-growing operation, and even his plan there involves addicting AMERICANS, not Brits. . .
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Sorry HB, long Day :))

    But yes, we never do find out why three British Agents were there in the first Place.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I want to say thought that Live and Let Die was a tremendous improvement compared to the movie that came before.

    James Bond went from Michael Moore to Roger Moore.
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