Casino Royale (1967) is very underrated

Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
It gets the reputation as the black sheep of the series. It's a parody of James Bond and not official lore. It's completely absurd and doesn't follow the protocol at all when it comes to what a Bond movie should be. It's often not included in people's list, and when it is, it's ranked low. Part of the hate it gets is due to legacy, and not just the film itself. It tried to undermine and cut into the then-young Bond franchise. And it stalled Eon's Casino Royale into the 21st century. Which on second thought, wasn't a bad idea. The delay preserved some of Fleming's material, like a freshwater glacier, for a new generation of viewers.

It also established the early spy spoof film, way before Austin Powers and other slapstick comedies. A bit ahead of its time. Even if it did totally piss on Fleming's work, I think parody is still a valuable act of free speech and criticism, even if it means upsetting a few people. But what matters is the film itself. Regardless of whether it's official and whether it was a jab at Fleming, I still find it to be a good film.

As much as I love the Bond franchise, even I can agree it has been braced with a formula. As great as movies like Skyfall and Goldeneye were, they were practically by-the-book. Ooh, the new vehicle. Ooh, the new gadget. Ooh, the new girl. Ooh, the new villain with his master plan. One reviewer put it that the formula plays us viewers like Pavlov dogs, awaiting the next predictable moment. And that's what I like about CR67. It's different, like, way way different. It has its own identity entirely. It's own score, it's own cast, it's own charm and even it's own thorns and downsides.

Joke or not, it brings a variety of different actors to the table and adds more to the interpretation of the Bond character than the main six actors alone. Sellers plays Bond with a charming sense of professorly stoicism and I can also see some of the qualities Fleming saw in Niven. 6 people impersonating James Bond and taking on SMERSH, with each doing their own part. That's a totally original story. Yes, one which could have been fleshed out a bit more (such as how SMERSH even reacted to there being 7 James Bonds). Or perhaps a directing that moreso emphasizing the fact that they're 7 heads of the same hydra. It's not fully fleshed out but it's deeper than it wants you to think it is.

It's absurd, and honest about it. All of the abstract thoughts the directors had in mind here were a mix of stupidity and brilliance. A flying saucer, an atomic bomb pill, an auction where people bid sitting down, a bagpipe with guns and so much more, a man running on a battery. Not unlike the book Phantom Tollbooth, which half of us have read in 4th grade. It shows an appreciation toward fourth dimensional nearly-disassociative thinking. It's cryptic, bizarre, hard to follow, a bastard with influences but no real father. It's entertaining and while I wouldn't say it's a great film, it makes a few other formulaic entries look dull. Imagination and wit beat guns and explosions in my book.

Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Silly but watchable nonsense in the classic 60's style.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Very interesting post, Cart, thank you.
    Yes, there is some fun to be had with CR67 which IMHO does have some funny moments and great ideas. Unfortunately they're frequently juxtaposed with the exact opposite. The score is terrific and so are the sets/costumes/art direction, but they can't rescue the film from being shapeless and incoherent.
    What it lacks is direction, which is a strange statement to make regarding this film considering how many directors are credited. Or perhaps not: one guiding hand throughout might not have been a bad idea (I'm sure you know the tale of Val Guest refusing the title "Co-Ordinating Director") since the tone varies so much. "No real father" sums it up- and I enjoyed your glacier analogy, nice one.
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I agree with you that the film has many good concepts but lacks a coherent backbone in which to assort it. And while chaos is good, there does need to be some stability, some foundation. Not to say it doesn't have any foundation but it doesn't quite capitalize on it either.

    It would've been more interested if they focused on the doppelganger aspect, and why they all needed each other because Eon's James Bond could do everything the 7 Bonds were able to do seperately.

    Would agree with shapeless, but I wouldn't call rigid and boxy (aka the standard Bond formula) the goal either.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Is it a coincidence that the official Bond movies which are generally highly-rated by fans are those which aren't rigid applications of the formula? I'm thinking mainly of OHMSS and CR06.
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    No. Highly acclaimed entries like Skyfall, Goldeneye, and The Spy Who Loved Me were made with intent to check all the boxes of what people expect from Bond.

    But moreso it's the formulaic entries which I like less that feel so dull compared to CR67. For me, those would be movies like AVTAK, Moonraker and Diamonds Are Forever. But I'd say two-thirds of the Bond films are formulaic to a strong extent. And it boils down to personal preferences, but whichever films people dislike, it's likely because they're formulaic.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Well, GE and TSWLM were made at critical times for the series when it had to prove it could not only sustain but increase its popularity after behind-the-scenes changes in management/financing so in those cases the Broccoli family made the decision to play safe and go for formula (after the relative underperformance of the immediate predecessors of those films), and to a degree that is true of SF as well. Hence the box-ticking.
  • BIG TAMBIG TAM Wrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
    I quite like it but in no way shape or form do I associate it with the official Bond series. As a spoof I don't think it's particularly successful. AUSTIN POWERS recognises the banalities of Bond with much more amusing incite, though even that series can go off the rails.
    CASINO ROYALE's Q Branch scene is amusing but the film's too disjointed. In fact it's a rare film in that you can see it unravelling before your eyes. Much of it must have been shot in sequence as by the end it's gone completely out of control. It's a relic of its time & as such I have a perverse liking of it but if ever celluloid could suffer a mental breakdown, this is it.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,234MI6 Agent
    Black sheep of the series? It isn't part of the series full-stop. It's just awful in the fact that it claims to be a comedy but isn't even funny.
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    In my opinion, it's a curiosity ....... Nothing more. ;) Every so often I'll watch the
    DVD of it but I've yet to sit through it, as I get bored. The humour hasn't dated
    Well.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Jarvio wrote:
    Black sheep of the series? It isn't part of the series full-stop.

    +1.

    It also did not establish the spy spoof. A really big Bond spoof that came a year earlier was Our Man Flint. And on television a year before that was the premiere of Get Smart. According to Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_James_Bond_parodies_and_spin-offs), there were many spy spoofs starting in 1964. Casino Royale merely jumped on the bandwagon of making spy spoofs.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    When they couldn't get a serious thriller off the ground, they went with a
    Way out, wild Spoof. :#
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    Barbel wrote:
    Well, GE and TSWLM were made at critical times for the series when it had to prove it could not only sustain but increase its popularity after behind-the-scenes changes in management/financing so in those cases the Broccoli family made the decision to play safe and go for formula (after the relative underperformance of the immediate predecessors of those films), and to a degree that is true of SF as well. Hence the box-ticking.

    Looking at the predecessors of TSWLM, GE and SF respectively: Man with the Golden Gun, License to Kill and Quantum of Solace. These films were considered disappointment for Bond standards, partly because they strayed a bit (just a bit) from the formula.

    I'm not saying Casino Royale is better than the greats just because it avoids the formula.

    I'm just saying when it comes to a series with 15 formulaic movies, some are going to the do the formula better than others. You're probably going to have ~5 formulaic entries you love, ~5 you like and ~5 you don't really care for. For example, some may prefer the serious box-ticking of For Your Eyes Only over the silly box-ticking of Octopussy.

    For me, I don't find CR67 better than the formulaic entries I love and like, but I find it better than the ones I don't care for.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    It has it's Quirks though -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    That's putting it mildly, 007!
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    I get its a parody - but even then it's barely funny.
    1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    It may not be brilliant, but for any Bond Fan it's still worth a Watch -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I have it only in my collection, as I couldn't Not have it. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    I don't mind that CR67 is a spoof or parody of the Bond films. I don't have a problem with the fact that it is deliberately absurd and at times downright stupid. And it doesn't bother me that this movie is not a part of the official EON series. It's even okay by me that it's chaotic and often downright incomprehensible. My problem with CR67 boils down to this - it simply isn't funny! I realize that humor is very subjective and one man's flat joke is another man's hilarious thigh-slapper, but for this man CR67 is a huge fail. To me one of the worse types of movies to have to endure is an unfunny comedy and CR67 is that in spades! X-(
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    That's BL's Rant for Today ;) :D
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    ..... but apart from that, he likes it ! :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,774MI6 Agent
    Exploding Robot Grouse? Drinka-Pinta-Milka-Day = BOOM!!! Hilarious!! :D


    The Scottish stuff is SO steriotypically bad its funny. In a cringeworthy way. I wonder why they chose Killin to film a segment of the Sir James leaves Scotland scene? Odd.


    The rest is a filled nappy. For more details, please see my lengthier comments in the "Which Bond Films Do You Not Own?" Thread.
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    Based on the sudden number of threads about CR67, I decided I needed to actually force myself to watch it.

    Although, I appreciate Cart's well crafted defense of the film, I still pretty much hated it. I'm not a fan of Our Man Flint or the first Pink Panther movie and CR67 managed to be even more excruciatingly dull, nonsensical, and unfunny than anything I've ever seen. OMG that was the longest 2 hours and 15 minutes of my life.

    I'm not the most hardcore Fleming fan and I don't always mind when the films stray from the source material. However, CR67 was downright insulting. Who did they expect to think this was funny? Fans of the novel might enjoy seeing Vesper in a feather headdress?

    Everyone involved in this project, including former Bond stars, should be ashamed. All prints and copies should be destroyed.

    At least it made me more grateful for the new, REAL Casino Royale.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :))
    Maybe that's what CR67 is for ? To make us appreciate other Bond films ? :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    It did start out Life as a serious Adaptation of the Novel.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    Based on the sudden number of threads about CR67, I decided I needed to actually force myself to watch it.

    Although, I appreciate Cart's well crafted defense of the film, I still pretty much hated it. I'm not a fan of Our Man Flint or the first Pink Panther movie and CR67 managed to be even more excruciatingly dull, nonsensical, and unfunny than anything I've ever seen. OMG that was the longest 2 hours and 15 minutes of my life.

    I'm not the most hardcore Fleming fan and I don't always mind when the films stray from the source material. However, CR67 was downright insulting. Who did they expect to think this was funny? Fans of the novel might enjoy seeing Vesper in a feather headdress?

    Everyone involved in this project, including former Bond stars, should be ashamed. All prints and copies should be destroyed.

    At least it made me more grateful for the new, REAL Casino Royale.

    I agree with that 100% {[]
    This film goes on forever. I just wanted some scenes to end so badly. It's just incredibly unfunny. It looks great, all the sets and all that, but it just turns out to be one of the most unfunniest films I have ever watched. The scenes in Scotland go on for an eternity. I'm glad I watched this online instead of buying it on DVD. Otherwise I would have burnt it. :)
    1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,774MI6 Agent
    I have said everything before and in previous threads, but I will add this much.

    Some films go through prep, production and post exactly as planned. Others have to improvise, jump through hoops, use inspiration. The Bond films themselves show both those patters in their history.


    CR-67 however mutated from a potential competing alt Bond film (as NSNA eventually would) to the nonsensical phycadelic mess it ended up through chronic mismanagement, excess of facilities and waste of budget, no co-ordination between filming units and no cohesive writing control. Add to that no sense of PR management either.
    Any one of these things can destroy a film, but to have all of them? Its amazimg CR-67 got in the can at all, far less there being any sembelance of a story. The Austin Powers films and Monty Python reach out comparable elements in surealism and spoof territory. But that doesn't change the fact CR-67 was not just badly made, it was barely made. For the most part it was a series of accidents and errors thst made it to the screen.

    In retrospect, it does have one legacy. The next time it was decided to attempt to make a Casino Royale, it was CR-06. As it is my favorite Bond film with everything in the right place, I am grateful CR-67 did make such a mess all those years ago! Maybe the actual, official Eon Bond films would not be the same 40 years later if it hsdn't.
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    What was Reaction to it upon original Release?
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    After showing CR67 to one of my friends, for years he continued to blame me for wasting two and a half hours of his life!
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,774MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    What was Reaction to it upon original Release?

    Ironically, the pattern is remarkably similar to the actual Bonds Captain Scarlet, Perhaps comparable to TMWTGG and QoS, but on a more severe scale. The arts press savaged it. Either generously dismissing it as incomprehensible, a singular oddity as a spoof, or gleefully ripping to shreds that it did not live up to expectations as a spoof, considering 007 has his own share of carefully played excess.
    The general audience though, still caught up in Bondmania and the general love of the spy genre which was peaking, did go to see it. Financially it did not do as well as the Bonds but it was no financial asprin bomb. It did make a profit at the box office. But for Producer Charles Feldman, the damage was done to his reputation and his health.
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Interesting -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
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