Pros and Cons: From Russia With Love

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  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Apologies for any offence caused, Vesper. None was intended. In discussing this scene we're using the terms mentioned historically in the novel which were carried forward into the film. Apologies again.

    I, too, apologise for using the term from the film.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Bondage007Bondage007 AustraliaPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    I won't be able to add anything that hasn't already been said.

    Cons:
    - This dude following dude following dude got tedious. Was the Bulgarian necessary to the movie?
    - I don't get why Tatiana had to give the plans to Bond in this way, could she not have given it to him at the hotel room?
    - I found it slower than DN. It dragged on towards the end.

    Pros:
    - What needs to be said?
    - Bey is the best ally. Great chemistry with Connery from the get go
    - Great shots of Turkey.

    FRWL and DN complement each other very well. I feel obliged to rank them equally in my rankings, but as I progress in my Bondathon I feel the pacing will make me place these lower. But if DN (17th) takes a hit, FRWL (4th) must too. If I leave FRWL as is, that means DN is top 5?? This is really hard!
    2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP
  • Penfold HeartPenfold Heart Posts: 159MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    FRWL and DN complement each other very well. I feel obliged to rank them equally in my rankings, but as I progress in my Bondathon I feel the pacing will make me place these lower. But if DN (17th) takes a hit, FRWL (4th) must too. If I leave FRWL as is, that means DN is top 5?? This is really hard!

    I have this dilemma. I think Dr. No just edges it for me as I prefer the locations and the look of it (it has a little more carefree fun about it). Also I find FRWL not very exciting for the first 45 minutes or so. But what a payoff after they have nabbed the Lektor, from there it becomes an excellently crafted and very tense spy thriller. The train scene is a stand-out in the series, and Grant an excellent villain.
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    CONS.

    * At times (very few) you notice the lack of budget (Kronsteen and Klebb first meeting with Blofeld).
    * Use of DN soundtrack in certain moments.
    * Fourteen minutes into the film until we see Bond (the real one) with Sylvia on screen.

    The rest are all PROS: perfect cast, perfect locations, perfect scenes, great theme song. Classic movie making.


    Bond making a late appearance was Fleming's idea - it was how he wrote it and since he was alive while they were doing it they were trying to keep it close to his version.
  • The Debonair BondThe Debonair Bond Posts: 48MI6 Agent
    I've always had a problem watching this movie. Maybe it's that the whole Lecktor thing confuses me, or it feels a bit slow at times.

    It's not among my favorites, although I do like it. I still don't neccessarily see it among the best though
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Welcome The Debonair Bond -{ , you might like to check out these links.
    http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/45180/introduction-how-to-use-the-forum/
    And to introduce yourself.
    http://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/756404/#p756404
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • DR NO-ahDR NO-ah AustraliaPosts: 104MI6 Agent
    It has taken me 20 years of Bond watching to really appreciate this film for what it is. I have always enjoyed it but for one reason or another my most recent watch has solidified it as an all time favourite for me. I also agree with above comments, Dr No and From Russia With Love compliment each other well. I must do a marathon consecutive watching of both of them one night!
    "Mango, banana and tangerine. Sugar and ackee and cocoa bean!"
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    FRWL and DN complement each other very well. I feel obliged to rank them equally in my rankings, but as I progress in my Bondathon I feel the pacing will make me place these lower. But if DN (17th) takes a hit, FRWL (4th) must too. If I leave FRWL as is, that means DN is top 5?? This is really hard!

    Why wouldn't Dr No be top 5? For me, Dr No and From Russia With Love are 3rd and 1st respectively :)
    I've always had a problem watching this movie. Maybe it's that the whole Lecktor thing confuses me, or it feels a bit slow at times.

    It's not among my favorites, although I do like it. I still don't neccessarily see it among the best though

    I think From Russia With Love is the best Bond film ever made. I'll grant that by today's standards, it may seem a little slow, but Bond was meant to be a spy first and foremost, not an action hero. There's nothing in the movie that doesn't belong or add to the plot, in my opinion, with the exception of the gypsy camp fight scene. The story is quite an accurate adaptation of the novel, which was one of Fleming's best.

    Also, what aspect of the Lektor plot confuses you?
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    [
    I think From Russia With Love is the best Bond film ever made. I'll grant that by today's standards, it may seem a little slow, but Bond was meant to be a spy first and foremost, not an action hero. There's nothing in the movie that doesn't belong or add to the plot, in my opinion, with the exception of the gypsy camp fight scene. The story is quite an accurate adaptation of the novel, which was one of Fleming's best.

    Gentleman....a bow...well done..
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    {[] I think many of us rate it very highly. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    Watched it again and two things always bothered me. One is sticking SPECTRE in it just so the Soviets wouldn't be the bad guys? Really? Did they forget about the Cuban missile crisis? I cant see how that would have been Fleming's idea (but I could be wrong) since he didn't have any problems with that in his novels. Also, a criminal group fooling the Soviets and the UK? Righhhht.
    All it did was complicate a very simple plot - kill Bond trying to steal the device from the Russians and embarrass the UK government.

    Two. Q's attache case. I'm okay with everything in it except the tear gas. Now, it seems to me it was initially put in so an agent like Bond could use it's temporary effect of incapacitating the enemy so he could escape - not stay and fight. It's TEAR GAS. I was exposed to this in basic training in the Navy in a room smaller than the train compartment with a few other sailors and it was very briefly. Trust me, if it were real and went off as it does in the movie, both Grant and Bond would have been in big trouble, not being able to breathe or barely see - you know, things that really help in close quarter brawling.
  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    Watched FRWL again last night. Loved it. In my opinion the fight between Bond and Grant has never been bettered. The casting is perfect - love Tatiana. The whole train sequence is as tense and claustrophobic as you can get. This is how a spy film should be done and fully deserves all the plaudits and respect that it gets. -{
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Absolutely agree, the train fight, is simply stunning {[]
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    Absolutely agree, the train fight, is simply stunning {[]

    Looking at your top five TP we seem to have similar ideas when it comes to Bond films.

    That would be the right ideas ;)
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :)) even Goldfinger is at my number six spot. ;) you
    Obviously have good taste. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Did they forget about the Cuban missile crisis?

    How could they forget about the Cuban Missile Crisis if it hadn't happened yet?
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • The Debonair BondThe Debonair Bond Posts: 48MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    FRWL and DN complement each other very well. I feel obliged to rank them equally in my rankings, but as I progress in my Bondathon I feel the pacing will make me place these lower. But if DN (17th) takes a hit, FRWL (4th) must too. If I leave FRWL as is, that means DN is top 5?? This is really hard!

    Why wouldn't Dr No be top 5? For me, Dr No and From Russia With Love are 3rd and 1st respectively :)
    I've always had a problem watching this movie. Maybe it's that the whole Lecktor thing confuses me, or it feels a bit slow at times.

    It's not among my favorites, although I do like it. I still don't neccessarily see it among the best though

    I think From Russia With Love is the best Bond film ever made. I'll grant that by today's standards, it may seem a little slow, but Bond was meant to be a spy first and foremost, not an action hero. There's nothing in the movie that doesn't belong or add to the plot, in my opinion, with the exception of the gypsy camp fight scene. The story is quite an accurate adaptation of the novel, which was one of Fleming's best.

    Also, what aspect of the Lektor plot confuses you?

    Well, for starters, what is a Lektor?

    It just gets a bit confusing when you realize that Rosa Klebb is an ex SMERSH who now works for SPECTRE, and Romanova is being fooled into thinking she is doing things for Mother Russia... and the whole Idea of stealing the Lektor from the Soviets and then returning it while done to get revenge from Bond.

    If you aren't paying attention carefully, things can get really confusing.

    It's still a good Bond film. Besides, Matt Monro's song is probably my favorite of the series.

    And thanks Thunderpussy for the links :007)
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,305Chief of Staff

    Well, for starters, what is a Lektor?

    It's Fleming's updating of the Enigma machine used by the Germans in WW2. In the novel, it's called a Spektor but this was changed for the film, to avoid confusion with SPECTRE.
    All of these machines, both real and fictional, encode or decode messages.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Bond was meant to be a spy first and foremost, not an action hero.
    This is why the first three films are such classics now. And why I love Dalton's (& Lazenby's) so much- even though they have action, they don't make Bond seem super human.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    edited July 2015
    Matt S wrote:
    Did they forget about the Cuban missile crisis?

    How could they forget about the Cuban Missile Crisis if it hadn't happened yet?

    The crisis took place in October 1962. I remember it vividly even as young as I was and it was damn scary. FRWL principal photography began the following spring in April 1963 and wrapped on in August. It premiered on 10 October 1963 at the Odeon Leicester Square in London.

    Johanna Harwood and Richard Maibaum wrote the screenplay, though Harwood was credited for "adaptation" - mostly for her suggestions, she left the series because she complained about Terrance Young constantly rewriting her work with ideas not in Fleming's novels. Maibaum ended up doing a lot of rewrites even while they were filming. Given all that, I blame the producers as well as Young and the writers for sticking SPECTRE in not only this film but in DN. I'm surprised they didn't make Goldfinger a SPECTRE agent. I suppose they didn't mind making the Chinese government the villains since they probably figured it wasn't going to be seen much in China anyway. The whole "leave out the Soviets as the villains" angle in FRWL is the one I don't get. They put bloody nuclear missiles around 144 km from Florida!

    Perhaps they were thinking about making SPECTRE the villains behind every plot in the series - and in the case of Connery's and OHMSS, well, they did except GF. It would not have surprised me if they had kept doing this. What confuses me is how EON was able to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in any of the films except TB since Kevin McClory owned the rights to these.

    Still, I think sticking Blofeld and SPECTRE in FRWL is one of the plot devices that made the film less believable for me. Given all this, it's still one of the best films, as it stayed close to Fleming's novel and had such memorable elements in it.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Did they forget about the Cuban missile crisis?

    How could they forget about the Cuban Missile Crisis if it hadn't happened yet?

    The crisis took place in October 1962. I remember it vividly even as young as I was and it was damn scary. FRWL principal photography began the following spring in April 1963 and wrapped on in August. It premiered on 10 October 1963 at the Odeon Leicester Square in London.

    Johanna Harwood and Richard Maibaum wrote the screenplay, though Harwood was credited for "adaptation" - mostly for her suggestions, she left the series because she complained about Terrance Young constantly rewriting her work with ideas not in Fleming's novels. Maibaum ended up doing a lot of rewrites even while they were filming. Given all that, I blame the producers as well as Young and the writers for sticking SPECTRE in not only this film but in DN. I'm surprised they didn't make Goldfinger a SPECTRE agent. I suppose they didn't mind making the Chinese government the villains since they probably figured it wasn't going to be seen much in China anyway. The whole leave out the Soviets as the villains angle in FRWL is the one I don't get. They put bloody nuclear missiles around 144 km from Florida!

    Perhaps they were thinking about making SPECTRE the villains behind every plot in the series - and in the case of Connery's and OHMSS, well, they did except GF. It would not have surprised me if they had kept doing this. What confuses me is how EON was able to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in any of the films except TB since Kevin McClory owned the rights to these.

    Still, I think sticking Blofeld and SPECTRE in FRWL is one of the plot devices that made the film less believable for me. Given all this, it's still one of the best films, as it stayed close to Fleming's novel and had such memorable elements in it.

    Sorry, I was off a year on the Missile Crisis. The Russians were rarely bad guys in the Bond films. Basically just in FYEO.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Willard WhyteWillard Whyte Posts: 166MI6 Agent
    PROS,

    one of the best Bond films of all time.
    Shaw is excellent
    Rosa Klebb
    The introduction of Spectre
    The locations, Turkey, Scotland at the end standing in for Eastern Europe and Venice.
    Tania
    The script
    The direction
    Faithful to the novel.
    The titles
    The music


    CONS

    NONE
    I smell a rat
  • Willard WhyteWillard Whyte Posts: 166MI6 Agent
    Watched FRWL again last night. Loved it. In my opinion the fight between Bond and Grant has never been bettered. The casting is perfect - love Tatiana. The whole train sequence is as tense and claustrophobic as you can get. This is how a spy film should be done and fully deserves all the plaudits and respect that it gets. -{

    -{
    I smell a rat
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I know that perhaps to some modern eyes, it appears slow moving, but
    It is a mainly story based film. So time has to be given, to let that story
    and characters unfold.
    An obvious test is to look at other thrillers or action films from 1963, then
    You're see for its time FRWL is a very fast paced, taut thriller . ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    I know that perhaps to some modern eyes, it appears slow moving, but
    It is a mainly story based film. So time has to be given, to let that story
    and characters unfold.
    An obvious test is to look at other thrillers or action films from 1963, then
    You're see for its time FRWL is a very fast paced, taut thriller . ;)

    Compared to many other spy thrillers, FRWL is indeed decently paced. But compare it to the similar but faster-paced North By Northwest four years earlier, and FRWL seems slow.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Could be, I love both films. Although I personally never found it slow
    even when seeing it for the first time as a kid way back in time. :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    I really like From Russia With Love; it has humour but it also has glamour and class.

    Pros:
    - No convoluted plot
    - Good theme tune
    - Interesting villains
    - Daniella Bianchi is glamorous but not used purely as a sex object
    - Stands up as a film alone from the franchise
    - Fewer but more effective use of gadgets
    - Feels like more of a spy film

    Cons:
    - Maybe a bit slow (but I wouldn't say dull)
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    In GF, Bond says " there would be the sweet tang of Rape, about the love making"
    ( might not be GF, but I think it is)
    Fleming enjoyed handing out a bit of a spanking, so I guess he transfered that
    On to Bond.

    I think the 'sweet tang of rape' is mentioned in Casino Royale.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Yes, I think you are correct Lady Ice. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,305Chief of Staff
    Yes, that is still correct. The quote hasn't changed books since post 138 above.
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