Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

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  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    I actually watched TND twice this week…I enjoyed it so much the first time I had to see it again.

    I now see it as a definitive Bond movie where it contains 'greatest hits' elements of everything I like about Bond. Aston Martin, Bond arriving, Bond talking to receptionists, Bond drinking, Bond in naval uniform, Bond with gadget laden car, Bond destroying villains lair, Bond teaming up with female agent, Bond in a serious relationship, Bond visiting the villain at a social event/Bond pushing his luck with pointed remarks, Bond and Q having fun, Bond saying some great one-liners, Bond killing in cold blood, and rockin pre-title sequence.

    The only other Bond films this "definitive" are TSWLM and GF where you could watch it and feel like you've seen every Bond film all at once.

    I also realized I like TND better than Goldeneye, although it's hard to fight the nostalgia factor of the GE Nintendo 64 game!
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    I actually watched TND twice this week…I enjoyed it so much the first time I had to see it again.

    I now see it as a definitive Bond movie where it contains 'greatest hits' elements of everything I like about Bond. Aston Martin, Bond arriving, Bond talking to receptionists, Bond drinking, Bond in naval uniform, Bond with gadget laden car, Bond destroying villains lair, Bond teaming up with female agent, Bond in a serious relationship, Bond visiting the villain at a social event/Bond pushing his luck with pointed remarks, Bond and Q having fun, Bond saying some great one-liners, Bond killing in cold blood, and rockin pre-title sequence.

    The only other Bond films this "definitive" are TSWLM and GF where you could watch it and feel like you've seen every Bond film all at once.

    I also realized I like TND better than Goldeneye, although it's hard to fight the nostalgia factor of the GE Nintendo 64 game!
    Wow Firemass, you love this movie as much, and in the same ways I do! {[]
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Biggest flaw imo is Teri Hatcher!
    Oh how I hate this woman! X-(
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Biggest flaw imo is Teri Hatcher!
    Oh how I hate this woman! X-(
    It's okay- she gets killed. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Biggest flaw imo is Teri Hatcher!
    Oh how I hate this woman! X-(

    :o Why?
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Not soon enough! X-(
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    Biggest flaw imo is Teri Hatcher!
    Oh how I hate this woman! X-(

    :o Why?

    I don't know. I cringe when I see her eyes. She's playing a troublemaker in Desperate Housewifes and is similar annoying to me in TND.

    She's average looking but to me she screams trouble and annoyance.
    If she was asking me for a date, I'd run!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    "Tell me James, do you still sleep with a gun under your pillow?"
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Wow Firemass, you love this movie as much, and in the same ways I do! ajb007/cheers {[]

    Yup! It totally rules.

    Haters will complain about unfinished script or terminator mode blah blah…as if we're supposed to be offended by the total destruction about the Stealth Boat. :))
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Because it's a stealth boat, most people wouldn't notice the destruction. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    Pros:

    Dr. Kaufmann
    HALO jump
    Bond alone, drinking shots of vodka in hotel room
    BMW in parking garage chase

    Cons:

    Helicopter hovering at impossible angle
    PTS -pilot being ejected from one fighter, through bottom fuselage into and into pilot's position of another fighter 8-)
    Bond's ridiculous, too-long underwater kiss with Wai-Lin when what she needs is AIR.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Cons:

    Helicopter hovering at impossible angle
    PTS -pilot being ejected from one fighter, through bottom fuselage into and into pilot's position of another fighter 8-)
    Bond's ridiculous, too-long underwater kiss with Wai-Lin when what she needs is AIR.
    A) You never tried that flying a chopper in a desert or flat area? It's fun!
    B) Splatting the dude underneath the fuselage & getting the remains sucked into the intake would have had the same outcome, but really gross...
    C) He was breathing into her, not just smooching!! :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    chrisisall wrote:
    He was breathing into her, not just smooching!! :))

    Ah, brilliant! Some carbon dioxide for you, darling :p
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    "They're looking for us, James."
    "Let's stay undercover."
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Bondage007Bondage007 AustraliaPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Helicopter hovering at impossible angle
    You never tried that flying a chopper in a desert or flat area? It's fun!

    That little bit's always bothered me too. It's not the angle itself, it's the helicopter hovering like that while at an angle.
    2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,646MI6 Agent
    "Tell me James, do you still sleep with a gun under your pillow?"

    Probably the only real Fleming-inspired element in the film.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    I will agree it is ridiculous that the helicopter would be using its own rotors as a main weapon! :))

    However, this is Bond's universe, not normal every day situations. I appreciate the imagination behind Bond films.

    The rotor technique was established as a threat as the helicopter terrorized a crowded alley, demolishing everything in its path. So when the helicopter has Bond pinned against a wall with its blades lowered it does look pretty menacing. In retrospect they should have hovered level and used guns instead!
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    I will agree it is ridiculous that the helicopter would be using its own rotors as a main weapon! :))

    However, this is Bond's universe, not normal every day situations. I appreciate the imagination behind Bond films.

    When Bond does utterly impossible things, he enters the superhero genre. Bond's actions can be highly improbable, never impossible.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    I just watched TND again since I hadn't in almost a decade. Lot's of good things in the film, and it's really fun, though overall it's not a particularly strong film

    Pros:
    - Pierce Brosnan is much better in the film than I remember. He's slick, but not as much of the caricature that I thought he was. And he makes the film fun.
    - Bond has great one-liners
    - Gupta doesn't seem like he real, but I've known people just like him
    - The Bond theme is overused in the score, but it feels so good!
    - Good use of David Arnold's original theme in the score
    - "Surrender" is a fantastic theme. Great music and great lyrics, along the lines of Barry's best Bond themes.
    - The BMW 750iL. It's not a very Bond car, but it fits the German location and Bond's cover as a banker better than a British touring car would. It has fantastic gadgets.
    - Dr. Kaufmann can't be taken seriously at all, but he's a brilliant character and clearly influenced by Maxwell Smart's archenemies Siegfried played by Bernie Kopell's
    - Underwater scene inside the Devonshire is well-done. I think it's better than the similar scene in FYEO
    - Stamper is threatening enough
    - Carver's kung fu moves are amusing
    - Strong female character in Wai Lin, and Bond always shows her complete respect
    - Good death for Carver
    - Creative action sequences

    Cons:
    - The story and characters have no depth at all
    - Unexciting visuals
    - The story is too much like YOLT and TSWLM, but not as creative
    - It's so much fun, but it completely lacks suspense
    - The sinking of the Devonshire drags on
    - I forgot how bad Eliot Carver is. He's not played believably at all, and his lines are terrible. Roger Moore often says he wants to be a Bond villain because they have the best lines, but Carver certainly did not
    - Paris Carver is like a 90s television character. I used to like her, but not so much now
    - Jack Wade did not need to return. He's like J.W. Pepper in this film more than in GoldenEye
    - Stealth boat finale is not particularly interesting, especially compared to all the other actions scenes in the film. It's just all shooting and plays out like a video game/typical 90s action film
    - Bond and Wai Lin getting together at the end doesn't fit
    - M and Moneypenny are pretty cheesy
    - The retitled theme "Surrender" is pushed to the end in favour of a less spectacular theme at the beginning
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Well Matt, at least there's stuff you like in the movie, so cheers to that -{ .
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Bondage007Bondage007 AustraliaPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I just watched TND again since I hadn't in almost a decade. Lot's of good things in the film, and it's really fun, though overall it's not a particularly strong film

    Pros:
    - Pierce Brosnan is much better in the film than I remember. He's slick, but not as much of the caricature that I thought he was. And he makes the film fun.
    - The Bond theme is overused in the score, but it feels so good!
    - Good use of David Arnold's original theme in the score
    - The BMW 750iL. It's not a very Bond car, but it fits the German location and Bond's cover as a banker better than a British touring car would. It has fantastic gadgets.

    That sums up why TND shot up in my rankings so much this time around!

    The bit where he breaks into Gupta's safe is cool as well - the way Bond moves, and the score even though it's not particularly Bondian
    2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Pros:

    - Brosnan looks sharp, seems more comfortable than in GE.
    - Plot line is intriguing, and the media empire size is well done/realistic.
    - Jonothan Pryce as Elliot Carver - while playing it quite child-like, it's still a good performance.
    - Teri Hatcher.
    - BMW.
    - PTS.
    - Hamburg break-in/fight in printing hall.
    - "Spare me the techno babble" "Tell me James..." "Perhaps, at least I don't think with them all the time" some good lines in this.
    - Saigon music.
    - Stamper.
    - HALO jump.
    - Kaufman.

    Cons:

    - Overall, DA soundtrack is messy, tries to be influenced too much from existing scores.
    - Slo-mo/score during evac of Devonshire.
    - Car chase is too over the top.
    - M/Moneypenny etc. in car holding drinks - who thing seems pretentious.
    - Wai Lin - just doesn't do it for me on many levels.
    - Return of Jack Wade.
    - Finale.
    - Stealthboat, drill machine.
    - Motorbike sequences.
    - Still using PPK.
    - Worst title song in entire series.
    - Overuse of machine guns in final scenes.

    Many of my non-Bond fan mates enjoy this one. Holds up as a fun action film - but it doesn't really hold-up as a Bond film for me. Too much missing from it overall.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Rewatched this one, and love it even more.

    "Mr. Stamper, would you please kill those bastards?!"

    It's now a 10/10 for me, crazy as it may sound.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Rewatched this one, and love it even more.

    "Mr. Stamper, would you please kill those bastards?!"

    It's now a 10/10 for me, crazy as it may sound.
    Not crazy at ALL IMO. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    Pros:

    -Fantastic performance by Brozzer.
    -Wei Lin rocks. It's great to have a Bond girl who's a useful partner to 007.
    -Great action sequences.
    -Elliot Carver is fantastically played by Pryce.
    -The scene with Dr. Kauffman is a classic Bond moment.
    -Stamper is a cool henchman.

    Cons:
    -Teri Hatcher is very wooden. Fortunately, she's not particularly annoying and the fact that her presence is short works in the film's favor.
    -Maybe Carver could've dodged the drill (I got this idea from YouTuber MrTardis11), but I still enjoy his death, as I find it epic and not anti-climactic, unlike Silva's.

    But yeah, love the movie.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    (Hope I got this quote right)

    "The British will think the Chinese are rattling the saber. And the Chinese will think the British are being belligerent. And the media will provide cool, objective coverage. Let the mayhem begin."
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    As much as I like YOLT & TSWLM, TND is the best OTT crazy Bond ever. Spottiswoode really delivered the goods.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    As much as I like YOLT & TSWLM, TND is the best OTT crazy Bond ever. Spottiswoode really delivered the goods.

    I don't think that TSWLM is that crazy, yeah the sets are, but it's no different to GF/TB/GE in terms of "world cataclysm".

    But I do agree that TND is crazy and yeah, it does it pretty well. It is fun, it just takes itself a bit seriously at times.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    As much as I like YOLT & TSWLM, TND is the best OTT crazy Bond ever. Spottiswoode really delivered the goods.

    I would place TSWLM higher on my subjective Bond ranking than TND, but yeah, TND is great for pure OTT Bond. It just flies by.

    Oh, and I'd def put YOLT lower on that ranking.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I would place TSWLM higher on my subjective Bond ranking than TND, but yeah, TND is great for pure OTT Bond. It just flies by.
    It's all good! -{ Grooving to Bond in our own ways with our own preferences...
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
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