Pros and Cons: Diamonds Are Forever

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  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    am747 wrote:
    " Jill St John's entry was pretty good too " :)) oh er! Misses. :D

    Taking Loeffelholz down the memory lane :))

    Hmmm....what?!? Sorry, was distracted there for a bit ;%
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    Lana Wood looked pretty too .... Should have got an extended role :D
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    " Extended" , you're doing this deliberately am747,aren't you :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    " Extended" , you're doing this deliberately am747,aren't you :))

    Picked up a few things from the Bond films :p
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Then you have learnt well, young Jedi :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Jill St. John looks good in the introduction in Amsterdam when her appearance keeps changing, and she does have quite a beautiful face - and being hypercritical here - I don't think her body is that impressive.

    Her personality is unattractive too.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Jill St. John looks good in the introduction in Amsterdam when her appearance keeps changing, and she does have quite a beautiful face - and being hypercritical here - I don't think her body is that impressive.

    Her personality is unattractive too.

    I disagree about her body. I think that's one of her best parts, though she has a nice face too. Physically, I don't like her hair style. It looks really outdated now. But her personality is what makes her unattractive to me.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • SkyfellSkyfell Posts: 37MI6 Agent
    Viewed this for the first time a weekend or so ago. What I liked:

    Pros:

    -"But of course you are." I loved the overall wit in this film but this line has to be my favorite Bond quip ever. I even find myself using it in real life.

    - The elevator fight with Peter Franks. I felt it was on par with the train fight from FRWL.

    - Mr Kidd and Mr. Wint were indeed entertaining.

    - Bond tracking down Blofeld in the PTS.

    - Ascension to Whyte's penthouse. I loved how Bond just chills on the top of the elevator for most of the ride up.


    Cons:

    - Connery looks bad in this film. Not only is he soft but he looks older at 41 than Daniel Craig does at 47. Was Connery someone who just didn't age well or was he leading an unhealthy lifestyle?

    - I found the second half and conclusion to be mostly boring.
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    DAF is an unique blend of some extremely good parts and some extremely bad parts .... It can appear dumb at times but on its day, it is entertaining esp. if you watch to have SC having fun :))

    I think this was the film he did not really care for. He did it for $s so he probably decided to just go out there and enjoy himself. Unlike other Bond actors, he appears to be under no pressure. And that reflects in his performance like when he is delivering his lines, how he chills at the top of the elevator, etc. .... This one has to be one of the unique Bond performances :007)
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    edited December 2015
    After reading DAF, I decided to re-watch DAF .... The book and film are different but I felt like connecting with the film again .... The film felt much better now .... Many of its scenes have been reused in some of the later Bond films for e.g.

    a) When Tiffany asks Bond where is he going, he says just popping out before climbing on top of the elevator. Similar situation was created in the PTS of SP where Bond goes out of the window, leaving behind his Mexican GF in the room, to take care of Sciarra (no wonder that PTS appeared so classy)
    b) Ford Mustang driving sideways on two wheels has been used in Octopussy and later in LTK for the truck chase
    c) The moon buggy escape sequence where Bond steals the bike was recreated in the PTS of AVTAK where Bond is stealing skimobile in a similar way
    d) The LV's Sheriff character was repeated in LALD and TMWTGG (Pepper) and in AVTAK (Fire truck chase and Zep)
    e) The elevator scene where Bond expects the floor to open up was an inspiration for a similar one in TSWLM
    f) The pipe scene in TWINE appears to be inspired by the pipe scene in DAF
    g) Bond talks to a rat in the pipe = Bond talks to rat in SP in the room
    h) Case moving around in a bikini in the villain's lair was redone in TMWTGG (though such scenes go back to films such as TB and YOLT as well)

    DAF has served as a mini template for many scenes in other Bond films :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Yes....
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    edited December 2015
    Doing a quick DAF vs SP

    Bond's performance: Tie (And both talk to the mouse :)) .... DC has to give his best to come close to SC's)
    BG(s): SP (Both Plenty and Lucia have short roles vs Case and Swann)
    BV: SP (SP's Blofeld appears more menacing and like the head of SPECTRE)
    Henchman / Henchmen: DAF (Wint and Kidd are legends; Hinx was good too though)
    Score: DAF
    PTS: SP (The exchange with Blofeld is probably more interesting than Sciarra running around and jumping in to a chopper but SP one was longer and an action highlight for the film)
    Finale: Oil rig vs London - DAF (exchanging the tapes was more interesting than running around the old MI6 building)
    Story: DAF (Uncovering Diamond smuggling leads to something more complex. And a professional assignment for Bond)
    Locations: SP

    A tie. However, a movie is more than the sum of its parts and includes intangibles

    {[]
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    am747 wrote:
    Doing a quick DAF vs SP

    Bond's performance: Tie (And both talk to the mouse :)) .... DC has to give his best to come close to SC's)
    BG(s): SP (Both Plenty and Lucia have short roles vs Case and Swann)
    BV: SP (SP's Blofeld appears more menacing and like the head of SPECTRE)
    Henchman / Henchmen: DAF (Wint and Kidd are legends; Hinx was good too though)
    Score: DAF
    PTS: SP (The exchange with Blofeld is probably more interesting than Sciarra running around and jumping in to a chopper but SP one was longer and an action highlight for the film)
    Finale: Oil rig vs London - DAF (exchanging the tapes was more interesting than running around the old MI6 building)
    Story: DAF (Uncovering Diamond smuggling leads to something more complex. And a professional assignment for Bond)
    Locations: SP

    A tie. However, a movie is more than the sum of its parts and includes intangibles

    {[]

    I agree with this.

    Though I enjoy Connery's performance at his worst more than Craig's at his best, I think Craig did much better in SF than Connery did in DAF.

    The finale in DAF is one of the weaker finales, and SP's could have been better, but it wasn't.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    edited December 2015
    Interestingly, one can even look at the PTS of DAF as a continuation of YOLT where Blofeld escapes (vs. OHMSS's)

    PS FYEO's PTS is more suitable as a continuation of OHMSS as it shows a) Bond paying his respect, and b) Blofeld on wheel chair which could hv happened after he was badly injured at the end of OHMSS
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    Charles-Grays-very-very-gay-Blofeld-for-first-time-makes-it-obvious-how-froo-froo-this-cat-really-is.jpg

    What if the cat is the real villain controlling Blofeld :))
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    I have to agree with Barbel's points, I love the theme song, one of the
    Best of them all. The script is full of some of the cleverest and witty
    Lines, they still put a big smile on my face. :D
    Hear! Hear!

    Pros:

    1) Effective camp while still remaining dangerous. In fact, I'd describe the film more as kinky than campy.
    2) Connery's return. While I would have loved to have seen George Lazenby continue, it's always good to see Connery as Bond, no matter the film.
    3) Wynt and Kidd are witty and satirical. While they camp up being gay, they nonetheless undermine the stereotype (then) of gay men as effete and ineffective -- they are, in fact, among the most dangerous of any of Bond's adversaries. And they also come across as an actual couple.
    4) An iconic, very effective soundtrack. The theme song is to the early 1970s what "Goldfinger" and "You Only Live Twice" are to the 1960s. I especially like the return of "007."
    5) Upping the violence and sex. Though it may be a bit cartoonish today, the amount of both in this film is considerably higher than in previous films, giving it an adult fairy tale quality.
    6) Charles Gray as Blofeld. I know this is a point of contention among fans, but I find his villain to be exactly the sort of bloviating, self-important type that ran corporations in those days. I'd have been okay if he was given a different name, but the idea of his using plastic surgery to alter his appearance and learning new mannerisms and inflections is right out of the Fleming novels.
    7) Jimmy Dean (who I met years later in a Williamsburg, Va, restaurant, when was blocking my way to the men's room). Although the character could have done more, his performance was fine.
    8) Lois Maxwell as Moneypenny. She looks resplendent in this film.
    9) The last great Ken Adam production.
    10) Tiffany Case. Not everyone likes the character or Jill St. John, but I thought she did a fantastic job, to the degree that I wish there had been more.

    Cons

    1) A dour, mostly colorless 1970s look, with muted cinematography and a cold color palette.
    2) A low budget climax that doesn't properly address Blofeld's demise or the end of SPECTRE. In fact, the end of SPECTRE as a villain was problematic.
    3) Questionable special effects that, at times, seem a step back from those in previous Bond films to that point.
    4) The Las Vegas location. The seediness of the city and the whole "gangster" tone don't feel authentic in a Bond film, though one could argue some of this is in the book.
    5) Lana Wood -- the dubbing in particular makes her come across as a kooky child.


    I agree with most of these actually. I like the very weird tone of DAF; it's camp but still menacing and violent (until the final showdown where it is a more familiar type of camp). Anyone with claustrophobia will be very unsettled at Bond in the coffin looking like he was going to be burnt alive and being stuck in a pipe. Wint and Kidd are camp and witty but still creepy (compare to Raoul Silva, who was camp but unmenacing). Mr Kidd is particularly creepy; had the film come out in a modern era, I wonder if they would have made the relationship between the two more overt. I also liked the bizarreness of Blofeld in drag and the theme tune lends itself to camp. Definitely some interesting things going on, even if the film reverts back to a lighter showdown near the end.

    I do feel that this looks like one of the most dated films of the series. Tiffany Case's styling is pretty horrible, particularly her hair. When you compare her styling to the iconic stylings of previous Bond girls, she pales in comparison. I guess maybe the sixties is a more fashionable era than the seventies. Bond seems more seedy than seductive here; perhaps it's because Connery doesn't look in tip-top shape. I agree about the cinematography as well; it's a very drab looking film and considering the title, it should have looked a lot better.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Okay finished my new Blu Ray DAF, and I rate it very highly. But... the cat scream in the PTS sounded different... may be just me, I dunno. The obvious wires on the thrown scalpels by Bond must have been removed because I SO remember them being in my face on the previous versions... nice. Pretty picture, but not as astounding as the Blu Ray versions of the 60's films. Still. The best DAF has ever looked IMHO.

    I was obviously in the perfect mood for this tonight because it entertained me no end. Connery rocked so intensely here. He was clearly having fun, and it was contagious. The two 'TV Batman' attempts to kill him didn't even bug me as usual. Every nuance was cool. It was like a super expensive Flint movie, but with better writing. Barry outdid himself musically...
    Okay, not the best Bond ever, but those sideburns on Bond, those skimpy outfits on Tiffany, those crazy FX (come on, impressive back in the day- admit it), make this not only a guilty pleasure, but a nostalgic FEAST!
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • WadsyWadsy Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 410MI6 Agent
    Hmm, this would be my opinion of the film.

    Pro's:

    - Sean Connery is back

    Con's:
    - Tiffany Case is useless
    - Charles Gray is the worst Blofeld ever
    - Connery looks too old
    - Campy, campy and even more camp (can't take the damn movie seriously)
    - Boring and dull locations
    - Horrible theme and score
    - No sequel to OHMSS
    - Terrible opening pre credits scene
    - Mr Wint and Mr Kidd
    - The coffin scene
    - Bambi & Thumper
    - The climax & end scene

    I cannot defend this movie at all really, it's just bad for me in every way. Kind of like how people would see AVTAK or DAD.
    1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. LTK 4. FRWL 5. TLD 6. TSWLM 7. GF 8. AVTAK 9. MR 10. DN 11. SF 12. LALD 13. TB 14. OP 15. CR 16. GE 17. YOLT 18. TMWTGG 19. SP 20. TND 21. TWINE 22. QOS 23. NTTD 24. DAF 25. DAD 26. NSNA 27. CR '67

    1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Wadsy wrote:
    Hmm, this would be my opinion of the film.

    Pro's:

    - Sean Connery is back

    Con's:
    - Tiffany Case is useless
    - Charles Gray is the worst Blofeld ever
    - Connery looks too old
    - Campy, campy and even more camp (can't take the damn movie seriously)
    - Boring and dull locations
    - Horrible theme and score
    - No sequel to OHMSS
    - Terrible opening pre credits scene
    - Mr Wint and Mr Kidd
    - The coffin scene
    - Bambi & Thumper
    - The climax & end scene

    I cannot defend this movie at all really, it's just bad for me in every way. Kind of like how people would see AVTAK or DAD.

    I can understand reasons most of your cons, but the theme and score? Those are brilliant.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,060Chief of Staff
    +1 with bells on.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    The theme, the score, the "Claret" line, fake kissing outside the apartment and fight in the lift are the film's only saving graces.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    It has a wonderful score, I like a lot in this movie, as said the lift fight, Connery's demeanour he is very relaxed and cooly blasé. I like the pts even the terrible ca ca ca Cairo dubbing. And especially the theme and SCORE. :007)
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I like the pts even the terrible ca ca ca Cairo dubbing

    "Where'sch Blowfeldd?"
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • GrindelwaldGrindelwald Posts: 1,294MI6 Agent
    DAF 45 now -{

    - Boring and dull locations (LV looks cool , not every Bondfan is american...Bond was gonna do Vegas sooner or later anyway)
    - Horrible theme and score (totally disagree)
    - Terrible opening pre credits scene (I thought it was cool in a symbolic way , like in YOLT when he "dies")
    - Mr Wint and Mr Kidd (they were interesting)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzJbHJMxHHQ&index=1&list=PLhILsHS_uOWaZCK-nJ4S_szmW5n979xt3
  • Mr_OsatoMr_Osato Posts: 398MI6 Agent
    Pro's:

    - The soundtrack
    - Connery is back (although not in finest form)
    - Wint and Kidd are pretty cool henchmen

    Con's

    - Cheap production values
    - Way too campy for my taste
    - No reference at all to OHMSS. The biggest 'con' IMO.
    - lousy performances from the villain and Bond girl. Especially compared to OHMSS
    - No iconic moments

    All in all: one of the worst movies in the series in my opinion.
    OHMSS, FRWL, DN, GF, CR, GE, SP, YOLT, TB, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD

    1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
  • UnderwaterBattle007UnderwaterBattle007 Posts: 284MI6 Agent
    edited January 2017
    In the lead up to this film in 1971, the public were once again enthused as Connery was back in the driving seat.

    I remember seeing the milk ad when watching other films at the cinema and it all just added to the anticipation. By the time it was released everyone was chomping at the bit to see it, even my late mother and father went to see it, which was very unusual. I remember all my mates at school all going to see it en mass one Saturday afternoon and it must have been my 8th viewing of it.

    When I first saw it (bearing in mind what life was like in 1971 in the UK) I enjoyed it immensely. Back then no one could afford holidays abroad, and holidays for me were at one of the many UK seaside towns like Blackpool, Southport or Bournmouth. So to see Amsterdam and Las Vegas especially, teleported you into a different World, into Bonds World.

    Fast forward to the present day, and having just watched it as my Bond marathon continues, it really is not so good and there are plot holes all over the place. Like others have said no mention is made of OHMSS, and in the opening scenes when Bond thinks he's killed Blofeld surely he would have said something along the lines of "Thats for Tracey".

    The first plot hole for me is, "what happened to the real diamonds?" and "who replaced them with the fake ones?" Felix Leiter certainly doesn't, Bond doesn't he's taken straight to the funeral home, and later has to ask Leiter where they are, it doesn't add up.

    The stunt driving is excellent and the film probably has one of the best car chases in a Bond film, miles better than that damp squid that we got in Spectre, (I wish EON would go back to hiring stunt drivers rather than racing drivers for the films).

    However the car going into the alley on two wheels and there is a shot and you can clearly see the gap is very small yet we have the nonsense of the car switching from one side to the other. I would have preffered them just to show the car coming out of the alley with all the people watching. I don't want to take anything away from the stuntmen it really is a great stunt, but spoilt. I know why they had to insert the switch but I wish they hadn't.

    I have always liked Connery as an actor and I have followed his films since he has hung up his holster, however as others have said Connery just ables through the film. He's not fat, but he's not trim either.

    The plot is a great plot. In fact one of the best plots (for realism) in the whole series. Just as good as the "lector" plot of FRWL. Also the casting of Charles Grey as the villan should have been an inspired choice. He was a wonderful actor to cast. It's just a pity they turned him into a comic book character rather then a menacing villan. Anyone who has seen the Devil Rides Out will tell you he was a really evil baddie in that movie.

    Another couple of anonyances I have with the film are during the moon buggy scene. First it's obvious that the wheel has fallen off it as we see it clear as day, and yet when it cuts back to it, low and behold it has miraculously grown another wheel. Then there is that guy on the bike, how long does he need to get going, that scene really grates with me I'm afraid.

    The music is fantastic and probably saves the day for me. John Barrys score is brilliant just brilliant.

    Overall I still enjoyed the film because I love Bond but this is competing with 23 other Bond movies and unfortunately someone has to be last. DAF is not that film but it is probably in my bottom 3 of the series.
    FRWl, CR, OHMSS, TSWLM, SF, GF, TLD, LTK, TND, FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TB, SPECTRE, DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, QOS, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK, NTTD.

    "Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
  • The Wicker ManThe Wicker Man EnglandPosts: 434MI6 Agent
    It is interesting how opinions change over time. I always used to enjoy DAF and didn't care for OHMSS. Now my opinions of the two films are the total opposite of what I used to think. I still enjoy DAF but I find myself not being quite so forgiving when it comes to some of the films ahem weaker moments. But I do believe it to have one of the wittiest scripts and Barry's score is genius.
    1.ohmss 2.cr 3.frwl 4.ltk 5.gf 6.tswlm 7.sf 8.op 9.tld 10.dn 11.lald 12.tb 13.fyeo 14.ge 15.mr 16.yolt 17.tnd 18.avtak 19.sp 20.twine 21.qos 22.tmwtgg 23.daf 24.dad
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 6,033MI6 Agent
    The first hour or so is pretty good but it descends into Carry On Bond after that. It's also John Barry's last great Bond score as far as I am concerned, he was never able to match the heights of his own brilliance after this one.
    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    The first hour or so is pretty good but it descends into Carry On Bond after that. It's also John Barry's last great Bond score as far as I am concerned, he was never able to match the heights of his own brilliance after this one.

    The first hour is fun, funny and exciting. Connery also looks like he's having a good time with the comedy too. But yep, descends very quickly!!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • DiabolikDiabolik TexasPosts: 117MI6 Agent
    Just finished a rewatch of DAF and I have to say I enjoy it more every time I see it. A few years ago I would have ranked it near the bottom but now I think it gets close to my top 10. Connery is obviously getting older and not as fit as he used to be, but he still gives a great performance. Tiffany Case is a wonderful Bond girl and possibly my favorite of the Connery Era, she's also a perfect match for Connery's Bond and I like to think they settled down together, especially since she did imply at the end that she wanted to marry him. Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd are very amusing henchman and I wish there was more of them. I also love the Las Vegas setting, back when it was still controlled by the American Mafia and not mega corporations. The pacing is excellent throughout and the balance between thriller and campy adventure is surprisingly well-done. The ending is one of my favorites in the franchise, especially how Bond realizes they are fakes using his bon vivant knowledge, instead of just reacting to being attacked like in other installments.

    Honestly the only things I don't like about DAF are Charles Gray's forgettable take on Blofeld, and obviously the plot is convoluted and makes less and less sense the more thought you give it. Nevertheless it's a joy to watch and I think I'll revisit it not too long from now. Quite underrated
    1.TSWLM 2.LTK 3.YOLT 4.OHMSS 5.TWINE 6.LALD 7.MR 8.GE 9.DN 10.FRWL
    Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
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