Slagging off the Bond films phenomenon ?

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Comments

  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    To be honest, the idea that Bond fans shouldn't or wouldn't criticize or even dislike some aspects of the films smacks of "Love it or leave it" tribalism.

    I'm not a fanboy and I don't do tribalism. I don't believe in patriotism and I have never rooted for a sports team. Nor do I make it a habit to suspend my critical faculties just because I have a fondness for something.

    And for the record, I firmly believe in the value and necessity of critics. To quote A.O. Scott, chief film critic for The New York Times, "Criticism, far from sapping the vitality of art, is instead what supplies its lifeblood... not an enemy from which art must be defended, but rather another name — the proper name — for the defense of art itself.”

    I'm a Bond fanboy proud and true, though being one or not has no bearing on having the faculty for proper criticism and I for one do not allow anyone else sway me with my insights about Bond unless they are reasonably compelling.

    On the other hand, I am a sports fan particularly for the regional, tribal aspect of it because it provides the only dimension for me to bond with so many strangers in my greater metropolitan area with whom I would otherwise share no common ground. To dismiss that is mere conceit and elitism. What brings each one of us to this forum? Perhaps there are "Harry Potter Only" fans who come here to pick a fight with Bond fans, but for the most part the regulars here share a more than casual appreciation for Bond while enjoying a great diversity in every conceivable Bond minutiae that might exist.

    To get back on track about the current pulse on the fandom, let me quote Thomas Edison:
    “Restlessness is discontent — and discontent is the first necessity of progress.”
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    For my own part, I am indeed a fanboy, I do believe in patriotism and happily root for my St. Louis Cardindals baseball team...and I have zero problem disregarding critics and criticizing their criticisms---particularly with regard to Bond, and particularly when the critics in question come to fill their blank page already disliking James Bond films, as that kind of baggage makes for boring reading ;) Judge a film on its merits and deficiencies, but don't go to a Chinese restaurant and complain when the quisine is Asian, and not Italian :s

    As for the relative increase of negativity: I agree it's happening...and regardless of whether or not it's because it's trendy, or because films just aren't as good as they used to be, IMO it's a worthy conversation {[]
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    I can't see not looking at the negatives as well as the positives. It's only stuff I don't really care about that gets a shallow examination.
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 6,033MI6 Agent
    The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.
    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.

    But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    The biggest fans are usually also the biggest critics. Most people don't watch a movie 761 times (a year) so they do not notice every little bit that might bother someone who does. Let’s face it, we are a very small group. Most people watch a movie once or twice and remember On Her Majesty’s Secret Service because it is that movie with Timothy Lazenby where Ed Stratocaster Blowfield nukes Fort Knox.

    I do think there is a big difference between saying that a certain movie isn't your favourite and what you don't like about it and having a reasonable discussion about it with other fans and being blatantly dismissive about someone else's opinion. That is why I never understand the sometimes fierce discussions on this forums about something that, when you look at it, boils down to nothing more than different opinions about something that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t matter at all.

    There are movies that I like less than others, there are Bonds I like better than others but for each and every one of us there is something about this movie/book series that unites us as that 0.001% of people that take the time to discuss the series among each other.

    Now, let’s all join hands, sing Goldfinger from the top of our lungs and agree that Roger Moore is the only real James Bond and that Goldfinger is overrated. :))

    I agree that GF is overrated :))
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.

    But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!

    Loyalty is an odd phenomenon in this context. I'm confused when reasoned argument is seen as 'dissing ' I'm a fanboy but feel that many of the films are actually poor, both as Bond films and as films in general. I find it fascinating to really dig into what works for me and why. Personal slurs and rudness should not be tolerated in any reasonable discussion.. It's precisely because I'm a fan that it matters more than it should.i have never bought into 'it's only a Bond film'. If that's all you expect and are happy with it then good for you,but probably makes for dull discussion where we all agree with how fab things are.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Nothing wrong with a review, -{ perhaps it's more of a low after the high of a new release ?
    Causing many to be more reflective , On what has gone before ?
    Although I do think it's easy to spot a review filled with, kindness and respect of the series, to
    One from someone who , doesn't care very much about the films. I suspect, I'm not the only one
    who when reviewing a Bond, tries not to offend the many fans the film will have. As Zaphoid99
    Pointed out , no slurs or rudeness is needed.
    ( Odd coming from him, the grumpy old git ) :D only Joking Zaps, couldn't resist. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Nothing wrong with a review, -{ perhaps it's more of a low after the high of a new release ?
    Causing many to be more reflective , On what has gone before ?
    Although I do think it's easy to spot a review filled with, kindness and respect of the series, to
    One from someone who , doesn't care very much about the films. I suspect, I'm not the only one
    who when reviewing a Bond, tries not to offend the many fans the film will have. As Zaphoid99
    Pointed out , no slurs or rudeness is needed.
    ( Odd coming from him, the grumpy old git ) :D only Joking Zaps, couldn't resist. -{

    No offence taken at all dear chap. I always enjoy what you have to say.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    I think the key, root word is "reason" as in "reasoned" and "reasonable" so that any discussion involves thoughtful engagement and along with that, ideally, comes respect and decorum. The clear opposite of that is what we'd consider as trolling, or drive-by opinion posts that offer nothing reasonable to back them up. I do see that here from time to time but thankfully it's weeded out through fair and proper discourse or by means of astute moderating :007) That is why I love this site, compared to other Bond boards in which the powers that be nurture their sacred cows with an intolerance to opposing opinions no matter how reasoned you try to approach it.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    superado wrote:
    I think the key, root word is "reason" as in "reasoned" and "reasonable" so that any discussion involves thoughtful engagement and along with that, ideally, comes respect and decorum. The clear opposite of that is what we'd consider as trolling, or drive-by opinion posts that offer nothing reasonable to back them up. I do see that here from time to time but thankfully it's weeded out through fair and proper discourse or by means of astute moderating :007) That is why I love this site, compared to other Bond boards in which the powers that be nurture their sacred cows with an intolerance to opposing opinions no matter how reasoned you try to approach it.

    Well said, superado, and thank you.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I think Barbel may hold the record for the quickest extraction of a troll. I remember one guy
    Only had ( I think ) two posts, and he was out the door. !
    " I do so love Scottish, efficiency " ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    I was just lucky with the timing.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    At once :D :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Would you say ..... " It's all in the wrist " :) Moderating must be like Comedy..... It's all in the timing.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles is trying since 11 years with me :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    He's not the only one who's trying....
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I too find Higgins "Trying" :p that's a classic Carry on gag :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    "Carry On"?? Never heard of it!
    AA_OLD_MAN_3.jpg
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,418Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    Sir Miles is trying since 11 years with me :D

    I sincerely hope you mean to 'ban you' :o

    :))
    YNWA 97
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 6,033MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.

    But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!

    Nothing wrong in discussing the movies as myself and hundreds of others do on here. I was highlighting the lengths that some posters dissect the movies when clearly they are just made to entertain. It's great fun to point out mistakes, plot errors and the like but some posters dig far too deep when the movies are for escapism. Just enjoy them for what they are - and I still hate Nik-Nak who is the worst character ever to adorn the hallowed canon :)
    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Not so much in support of Nick-Nack , but he is an odd character and in my opinion
    a very Fleming like character. Although I do agree useless as a Henchman, but I think
    He's more in the vein of Scarpine or Elvis. A Personal assistant ( evil obviously ) but
    Happier taking notes and overseeing, their bosses plan ?
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 583MI6 Agent
    A Personal assistant ( evil obviously ) but
    Happier taking notes and overseeing, their bosses plan ?

    And, of course, operating his very own haunted house.
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    ;) Even M appreciates interior design advice.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
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