the racism in bond

00Baxter · May 2009

today i discoverd something shocking! and at the same time sadly not so shocking*, in the first of the bond flicks like dr. no but i forget when. did anyone else notice this and if so tell me not the joke or remark but when and in whitch one? ?:) p.s. cheers to all felow bond lovers! {[] *consider ing the time.

Dan Same · May 2009

I assume you're referring to when Bond tells Quarrel to "Fetch my shoes" in DN. However, I've never regarded this as particularly shocking; mainly, as you noted, because of the time in which it was set. But also, given that Bond would reasonably employ a boatman, whom being Jamaican was of course black, I don't regard it as sinister that Bond spoke to him that way. If anything, the comment spoke more about Bond's attitude regarding class than about his attitude regarding race. Basically, I don't think that Bond or the filmmakers are racist; however they may be imperial and snobbish.

00-Agent · May 2009

If you want to be really shocked try reading a book like Live and Let Die.

Loeffelholz · May 2009

00-Agent wrote:

If you want to be really shocked try reading a book like Live and Let Die.

Read the books? What a quaint notion.

Seriously, though, all Bond fans should---because there's a different Bond out there, hiding---in plain sight!---on the printed page, which has only been afforded the most fleeting of glimpses over the past thirty years or so...and more's the pity

The Original Flemings^TM, which first appeared in the early Fifties, were very much of their time---warts and all. One can enjoy and appreciate the stories, whilst conceding that the world has progressed appreciably in the interceding years...although some aborigines, native Americans (i.e., early Asian immigrants,

) and indigenous Africans in various situations might legitimately disagree with such an assertion. Mankind is imperfect as a species, I think, in the way we handle many things. We remain a work in progress.

Mister White · May 2009

Racism?

Nah, just the average attitude of the British in the fifties.

Mind you, ever since I re-read doctor No, I have been wondering what Chigroes look like... :v

"Somepn comin' across de water, cap'n! It de dragon fo sho!"

bondaholic007 · May 2009

"the air was thick with smoke and the sweet, feral smell of two hundred Negro bodies"

thesecretagent · May 2009

00Baxter wrote:

today i discoverd something shocking! and at the same time sadly not so shocking*, in the first of the bond flicks like dr. no but i forget when. did anyone else notice this and if so tell me not the joke or remark but when and in whitch one? ?:) p.s. cheers to all felow bond lovers! {[]

*consider ing the time.

Go to the bottom of the film page and there's a thread there. I thought a scene in Dr. No was racial, some didn't. It's hard to say whether it was British colonial attitude, the fifties/sixties or misconception.

00Baxter · May 2009

Mister White wrote:

Racism?

Nah, just the average attitude of the British in the fifties.

lol

)

thenoisydrum · May 2009

bondaholic007 wrote:

"the air was thick with smoke and the sweet, feral smell of two hundred Negro bodies"

That particular line really sticks out in my memory from this book. A fantastic Bond novel, the first that I read in fact

Shadowfall · September 2016

If you were in charge of writing a continuation Bond novel how would you tackle the thorny issue of Sexism / racism / homophobia?

Previous writers have tacked the subject in different ways, a couple going as far as to change Bond to out and out apologise for the opinions of a past time. Is it better to keep those elements in as it helps any continuation fit amonsgst the established canon? Or remove it all together to adhere more strongly to a modern sensibility?

superado · September 2016

Shadowfall wrote:

If you were in charge of writing a continuation Bond novel how would you tackle the thorny issue of Sexism / racism / homophobia?

Previous writers have tacked the subject in different ways, a couple going as far as to change Bond to out and out apologise for the opinions of a past time. Is it better to keep those elements in as it helps any continuation fit amonsgst the established canon? Or remove it all together to adhere more strongly to a modern sensibility?

I think canon has ceased to be a concern with the recent few continuation novels, coupled with the continuation of the Young Bond series. It seems to have gone largely unnoticed by readers, IMO.

My immediate "how" would be to write a period piece, but I noticed with the recent Trigger Mortis (maybe this is what you were also referring to) that was set immediately after the events of GF, there was an apologetic element on part of the author if I remember correctly, about homosexuality. The impression that left for me is that it seemed so unnatural, out of place, and too aware in its revisionism.

Carte Blanche (2011) had a contemporary setting and again if memory serves me, Bond was "updated" to modern standards though I don't remember which vices he kept, retained and to what extent; I'd look at that book's feedback from readers and critics and you'd be able to determine how much the updating of Bond worked.

Gassy Man · September 2016

The books are often stultifyingly racist, even by the standards of the day. Bond's hatred of Koreans, for instance, in Goldfinger borders on the psychotic. People knew it was wrong in the 50s as much as they know it's wrong today. The difference was that it was socially acceptable. Today, much of the racism has gone underground, and so it's not socially acceptable to be public with it in most cases. But certainly society still has significant problems, especially from what is called casual racism, which has to some degree replaced the overt kind. This is the person who harbors racists views but either is unaware or refuses to acknowledge them. They cross the street when approached by a minority or tell a racist joke and then chide anyone offended because they claim it was made in jest, for instance. Or they hold to stereotypes, offer the lame "but I'm not racist, I have a _________ friend" as a defense, or invoke the "reverse racism" charge whenever they're called out on bad behavior.

In this sense, the Bond books and films do have their elements of casual racism. As with many films, minority characters may seem more like tokens than fleshed-out characters, and excluding minorities from social situations except for a token can be viewed as casual racism. Quarrel, for instance, may fit the stereotype of the superstitious island simpleton, and the Blaxploitation characters in Live and Let Die are right out of the stereotype handbook. Bond tends to move in social circles that are overwhelmingly not diverse. The more recent films may be something of an improvement, as Felix and Moneypenny are present without any discussion of race, but one could argue it took 50 years to get there and that the same generosity hasn't been afforded other races.

Gassy Man · September 2016

Tokenism is lampooned in this Legally Brown sketch, though by reversing the players, perhaps its effect become more apparent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ll6k8n0Z8

hehadlotsofguts · September 2016

What about in Goldfinger,when Bond does that toothy grin and squints his eyes at the guard? I thoughtthat it was a camp moment from Sean and i hadn't realised how racist it was.

Also in the same film, Mr Solo refers to one of Goldfinger's servants as "boy".

As Gassy Man says, it was the 60's and casual racism was acceptable back then.

Thunderpussy · September 2016

Sadly it was a sign of the times, casual racism was all over the place

many words and lines would never
Be used today. Although I think it's important that they all remain in all films of the time, so we can use them
As examples of what those times were like.
The encouraging thing I take from this discussion, is how many of use feel uncomfortable at various lines,
Words and phrases from those times.
I cringe at a line in LALD when Adam asked to borrow Billy-Bob's boat, and is called "Boy", although in its
Defence the character of Billy-Bob was supposed to be a red-neck, hillbilly.... So it was probably something
He would have said.

welshguy34 · September 2016

There is also the line in Dr No when Bond tells Quarell to fetch his shoes.

Matt S · September 2016

I never took "boy" to be racist. Bond calls JW "boy" in TMWTGG in response to JW calling everyone "boy". When I was younger and doing certain types of jobs people called me "boy", and I'm white. BUt even if JW and the like are racist, that would be an accurate portrayal of a certain type of American and doesn't make the film racist.

Napoleon Plural · September 2016

In Trigger Mortis, the last Bond continuation novel, Anthony Horovitz writes as Fleming and tries to insert the creators anti-German tendencies into the narrative. I found it distasteful really, because Fleming was of its time and had earned his attitude through his experience of the war, also it was leavened by a certain intelligence. Horovitz seemed cynical which is arguably worse because he doesn't really believe it. Added to which, is it necessary? I mean none of us look back on Fleming's Bond novels and think, wow, I just loved the casual racism. We just edit it out of our memories.

Horowitz tried to compensate for Fleming's sexist attitudes by having Pussy Galore

go off with another lesbian

which is all very well but a bit contrived, I mean you could argue in today's era of fluid gender thing (can't think of the term) it would be quite normal for Galore in Goldfinger to switch from women to men cos she decides she fancies Bond.

As for the Quarrel thing, I found Bond's brusque interrogation of him at Pussfellas a lot ruder.

MilleniumForce · September 2016

Matt S wrote:

I never took "boy" to be racist. Bond calls JW "boy" in TMWTGG in response to JW calling everyone "boy". When I was younger and doing certain types of jobs people called me "boy", and I'm white. BUt even if JW and the like are racist, that would be an accurate portrayal of a certain type of American and doesn't make the film racist.

I've always taken that as just part of Pepper's character - I mean, he is from the sout of the USA, so it does fit the stereotype.

the racism in bond

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