Skyfall - A classic?

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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    delicious wrote:
    delicious wrote:
    Bond is an arrogant, aggressive, alcoholic womaniser

    You make it sound like it's a bad thing ;)

    It is.

    Thats the character...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    delicious wrote:

    You make it sound like it's a bad thing ;)

    It is.

    Thats the character...

    I realise that. I would not like to meet James Bond in person if he was a real human being, any more than I would like to meet Hannibal Lecter, Rambo, the Terminator or many other very entertaining fictional characters. I do enjoy the situations that they find themselves in for one reason or another - that's what I like about Bond films.
  • Penfold HeartPenfold Heart Posts: 159MI6 Agent
    I watched Skyfall once at the cinema, and once on DVD I think. I'm not planning on watching it again any time soon.

    Over hyped, dull, lacking substance and character depth I would say.

    CR is a classic for me and let's hope SPECTRE might beat it.

    ^ This ^
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    I was just thinking about this:

    Silva is a man who uses technology to get done whatever he wants to get done. But he's not the villain because he's a cyberterrorist. No, he's the villain because he apparently wants revenge on M for deserting him. And yet, it's later revealed that he wants to die along with her. Which happens anyway, as Bond kills Silva by throwing a knife to his back, and M dies from a bullet wound.

    So, in the end, Silva got what he wanted. Bond didn't stop that from happening. The difference was that they didn't die from Silva's bullet.

    Just putting this out there.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
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    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Non-fans will forget it, but fans will keep it as part of the broader context of the Craig era probably more importantly over time - especially because of the death of M and introduction of "Bond is back" elements near the end of the film and how it moves into SP.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Non-fans will forget it, but fans will keep it as part of the broader context of the Craig era probably more importantly over time - especially because of the death of M and introduction of "Bond is back" elements near the end of the film and how it moves into SP.

    Yes, although both films are quite different in tone.

    This despite the fact that they share the same director.

    Then again, GE and CR are very different films and also shared the same director.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    My biggest LOL from Mendes is that in SF Q makes that remark about exploding pens, then in SP the loud watch alarm... :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    My biggest LOL from Mendes is that in SF Q makes that remark about exploding pens, then in SP the loud watch alarm... :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

    Irony of ironies indeed.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 343MI6 Agent
    That is one of my favorite parts of the film was Q's introduction
  • Mr SnowMr Snow Station "J" JamaicaPosts: 1,736MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    X-(
    I have to say no to Skyfall being a classic.

    I just didn't like it. I found myself looking at my watch a couple of times during it. Which is never a good thing whilst in the cinema as far as I am concerned.

    I just felt there was nothing really there to hold my interest.

    I would say the classics are:

    DN
    FRWL
    GF
    TB
    OHMSS
    LALD
    TLD
    LTK
    GE
    CR

    But that's just my opinion :)

    We all have our opinions, I think that's why we are here. I agree with most of your choices (especially the Connery films) except for the Dalton 'Bond' films. The films (plot/dialogue) themselves I think are OK but Dalton as Bond spoils it for me; he's just not convincing.

    I totally agree re: Skyfall: it's not a classic (far from it), except for the introduction of Eve Moneypenny (she is stunning) and the song 'Skyfall' (not on the soundtrack X-( ) but film wise I still put CR ahead. And as in some Bond films the shoot out (ending) scene seemed to go on forever, the same in the abandoned Island in Macau. As for cyberterroism; I think I can wake up and smell the coffee ;)

    Casino Royale I thought was an excellent film, and to compare this and Skyfall my opinion is CR would win hands down based on dialogue alone.
    "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". - Homer J Simpson
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    There's no denying that Bardem played Silva brilliantly, but it's his intentions that weaken him as a villain for me.

    Plus, as I mentioned earlier, he won in SF, and Bond lost. Silva got what he wanted, while Bond couldn't stop M from dying.

    And it's not like we hate Silva or anything (although killing Severine in cold blood was brutal). We pity him because once we learn of his inability to get over the fact that M betrayed him, we don't fear him anymore.

    And I like to fear or have some sick admiration for my villains. It's why I love Scaramanga, Goldfinger, and Pleasence's Blofeld so much. They have that impact on me, and I don't pity them.

    With Trevelyan, I get that he's seeking to avenge his parents, but I don't pity him because causing a global financial meltdown is not cool.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    With Trevelyan, I get that he's seeking to avenge his parents, but I don't pity him because causing a global financial meltdown is not cool.

    I think Trevelyan is a weak villain, and the financial storyline is dull.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Willard WhyteWillard Whyte Posts: 166MI6 Agent
    Only silly things about Skyfall for me are...

    1...Bond tries to protect M and gets her killed.

    2...Why not have an Army waiting at Skyfall for them to take out Silva and his henchmen.

    Apart from this it's still class.
    I smell a rat
  • Willard WhyteWillard Whyte Posts: 166MI6 Agent
    I wouldn't say CR is a classic at all


    :o :s
    I smell a rat
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    Only silly things about Skyfall for me are...

    1...Bond tries to protect M and gets her killed.

    2...Why not have an Army waiting at Skyfall for them to take out Silva and his henchmen.

    Apart from this it's still class.


    I had trouble with those points when I first saw the film as well, but having watched it many times it doesn't bother me as much because -

    Bond doesn't save M because one of the main themes of the film (and Craigs role in the reboot) is that he's not the superman of the old series, so he makes mistakes and gets physically and emotionally hurt - as the Fleming's character did in the novels. Also, they were attempting to return indirectly to the old format of series which is why they introduced the HQ staff (Q, Moneypenney) and have a new M who is man. Of course, they could have had Bond save her and she would have just retired (and that would have been fine with me), but this would not have been as dramatic. The critics love this type of melodrama (as well as the actors enjoy playing it) so I understand why they went with that ending. It's not what they would have done in the old series but it's notably the type of dark circumstances that Fleming would have written.

    As far as having an army waiting for Silva or having Bond being better equipped, it took me a few viewings to see why that didn't happen (if you follow the internal logic of the script) because the whole plan was officially unauthorized. Bond has Q make it so Silva can find Bond, then Q and Tanner go along with Bond's plan (which he made up basically on the run after saving M) even though they mention how it could cost them their jobs for participating in it. Fiennes overhears them and authorizes Bond's plan because as a former field agent he agrees with it even though he knows his superiors would not - so he could also lose his job. This is why they could not have an army waiting at Skyfall - the plan was not sanctioned. Bond (again going with the internal logic of the script) wasn't better armed because he grabbed M, got the Aston and sped up to Skyfall.

    Scene:

    M: What are you doing?

    Q: We're just... monitoring.

    M: Creating a false tracking signal for Silva to follow.

    Q: Well, sir, um... Well, no.

    Excellent thinking. Get him isolated. Send him on the A9. It's the direct route.
    You can monitor his progress more accurately and confirm it with the traffic cameras.

    Tanner (or Q?) But what if the PM finds out?

    M: Then we're all buggered.

    Why didn't he have more weapons in his storage garage? Probably because stashing a cache of weapons is not something the character would do based on his history. In the novels Bond only armed himself with items he would use in personal combat - his pistol, throwing knife, steel capped shoes. Also, the Aston itself was still armed and he did use it in the attack. He knew Silva would find out where he would end up and he had to get there and be ready for when Silva would show up. He also believed his father's gun collection and ammunition were still at Skyfall and would still be available to him, which is why he would not stop at a gun store to buy any (even though he's licensed to own firearms). He also probably assumed Silva would only show up with a few henchman - not in a helicopter gunship.

    They could have had Bond hide in the Aston until the ground crew of goons showed up and then sped off at them while they were approaching the house on foot and mowed them down with the Aston's guns as he chased them over the fields. Not sure how that would have looked cinematically though.
  • Willard WhyteWillard Whyte Posts: 166MI6 Agent
    Only silly things about Skyfall for me are...

    1...Bond tries to protect M and gets her killed.

    2...Why not have an Army waiting at Skyfall for them to take out Silva and his henchmen.

    Apart from this it's still class.


    I had trouble with those points when I first saw the film as well, but having watched it many times it doesn't bother me as much because -

    Bond doesn't save M because one of the main themes of the film (and Craigs role in the reboot) is that he's not the superman of the old series, so he makes mistakes and gets physically and emotionally hurt - as the Fleming's character did in the novels. Also, they were attempting to return indirectly to the old format of series which is why they introduced the HQ staff (Q, Moneypenney) and have a new M who is man. Of course, they could have had Bond save her and she would have just retired (and that would have been fine with me), but this would not have been as dramatic. The critics love this type of melodrama (as well as the actors enjoy playing it) so I understand why they went with that ending. It's not what they would have done in the old series but it's notably the type of dark circumstances that Fleming would have written.

    As far as having an army waiting for Silva or having Bond being better equipped, it took me a few viewings to see why that didn't happen (if you follow the internal logic of the script) because the whole plan was officially unauthorized. Bond has Q make it so Silva can find Bond, then Q and Tanner go along with Bond's plan (which he made up basically on the run after saving M) even though they mention how it could cost them their jobs for participating in it. Fiennes overhears them and authorizes Bond's plan because as a former field agent he agrees with it even though he knows his superiors would not - so he could also lose his job. This is why they could not have an army waiting at Skyfall - the plan was not sanctioned. Bond (again going with the internal logic of the script) wasn't better armed because he grabbed M, got the Aston and sped up to Skyfall.

    Scene:

    M: What are you doing?

    Q: We're just... monitoring.

    M: Creating a false tracking signal for Silva to follow.

    Q: Well, sir, um... Well, no.

    Excellent thinking. Get him isolated. Send him on the A9. It's the direct route.
    You can monitor his progress more accurately and confirm it with the traffic cameras.

    Tanner (or Q?) But what if the PM finds out?

    M: Then we're all buggered.

    Why didn't he have more weapons in his storage garage? Probably because stashing a cache of weapons is not something the character would do based on his history. In the novels Bond only armed himself with items he would use in personal combat - his pistol, throwing knife, steel capped shoes. Also, the Aston itself was still armed and he did use it in the attack. He knew Silva would find out where he would end up and he had to get there and be ready for when Silva would show up. He also believed his father's gun collection and ammunition were still at Skyfall and would still be available to him, which is why he would not stop at a gun store to buy any (even though he's licensed to own firearms). He also probably assumed Silva would only show up with a few henchman - not in a helicopter gunship.

    They could have had Bond hide in the Aston until the ground crew of goons showed up and then sped off at them while they were approaching the house on foot and mowed them down with the Aston's guns as he chased them over the fields. Not sure how that would have looked cinematically though.

    Fair points excellently made.
    I smell a rat
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    I wouldn't say CR is a classic at all


    :o :s

    CR is my least fave of the Craig 007s, sorry.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 583MI6 Agent

    Why didn't he have more weapons in his storage garage? Probably because stashing a cache of weapons is not something the character would do based on his history.

    Nay, they were all "sold to a collector from Idaho or some such place". :p
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • Revolver66Revolver66 Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 470MI6 Agent
    Just watched Skyfall again recently and I have to say that it is absolutely a classic. Sure it's not perfect, but which Bond film is? All bar maybe one or 2 have their niggles, and whilst this has a few (plot holes and such) it's just a brilliant bit of film making. I really love it more and more every time I see it. Great Villian, Great Bond, Great performaces and cast, awesome pre-title seqeunce, brilliant titles and title song, amazing cinematography and imagery, an emotionally engaging story (a rarity for a Bond film) and some outstanding scenes (The entire Shanghai sequence, Silva's intro, plus the following scenes on the island, and the tube chase are all standouts). For me Skyfall, as well as Casino Royale, are both standout classics of the series. The disappointing Spectre served to highlight just how rare a classic Bond film is these days, and makes Skyfall look even better in comparison. Top 6 of all time for me :)) :))
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Revolver66 wrote:
    All bar maybe one or 2 have their niggles, and whilst this has a few (plot holes and such) it's just a brilliant bit of film making.

    The film does have elements that are the best in the series (acting, production, direction etc.) and some awesome sequences, exactly the ones you mention. But as you say, I find the plot holes you mention a little too high up on the niggle list to let it slide. Like SP, the storyline gets bogged-down by itself.

    That said, including yourself there seems to be quite a few fans here, growing too...
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • HinksHinks Peterborough, UKPosts: 40MI6 Agent
    welshboy78 wrote:
    I think over time the hype will wear off. Enjoy it but I dont think its superb

    I think Casino Royale is a classic, Skyfall? No

    That about sums it up for me too.
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    edited September 2016
    When gauging the magnitude of a films impact or legacy its helpful for me to hear the thoughts from this board, but also equally important is the thoughts of the people in my life who are not massively obsessed Bond fans with vast knowledge of the character like we are. Because naturally they offer up a less critical perspective that isn't enveloped by the knowledge we have of Bond, Fleming, etc. and it doesn't really influence my own opinion but gives me a good snapshot of how a films viewed. That said, Skyfall has been out for four years now and everyone from my closest friends to family and extended family ages from 14-65 consider it the best Bond film of all time along with some of Connery films. So it may not be considered a classic in time but it will probably be remembered as a benchmark film in the series.
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