CR (Film) vs CR (Novel)

bondaholic007bondaholic007 LondonPosts: 878MI6 Agent
Casino Royale (Novel) vs Casino Royale (Film)

Novel
• Gunman tries to kill Bond in the Casino
• Vesper dies from overdose of sleeping pills
• Vesper writes a letter to Bond
• Bond plays baccarat
• Bond smokes
• Money: francs
• SMERSH
• Vesper a Russian double agent
• Car: Bentley
• Torture Scene
• Set in 50's

Film
• Vesper dies in a lift underwater
• Bond plays poker
• Car: Aston Martin
• Torture Scene
• Modern - Mobiles / Terrorism
• Set in 2006

Well that is all I can think of at the moment

Post other things then they will be added on to this list, Post which you would prefer Novel or Film.

Comments

  • 84208420 Posts: 721MI6 Agent
    I would prefer the film i haven't read the book ;%
  • Scribe74Scribe74 San FranciscoPosts: 149MI6 Agent
    In CR (the film), Bond earns his Double-O status killing a crooked section chief and the chief's informant. One killing takes place in a public restroom, the other takes place the section chief's office in Prague.

    In CR (the novel), Bond earns his Double-O status killing a double-agent in New York. If I remember correctly, he snipers the guy in an upper floor office at Rockefeller Plaza. I can't remember the other guy he kills! Someone help me out . . . the hour is late and my brain's tired!
  • Golrush007Golrush007 South AfricaPosts: 3,421Quartermasters
    edited December 2008
    Scribe74 wrote:
    In CR (the novel), Bond earns his Double-O status killing a double-agent in New York. If I remember correctly, he snipers the guy in an upper floor office at Rockefeller Plaza. I can't remember the other guy he kills! Someone help me out . . . the hour is late and my brain's tired!

    Bond's second kill is a "Norwegian who was doubling against us for the Germans", killed in his hotel room in Stockholm. "He just didn't die very quickly."

    An interesting difference between book and film is that in the book, the clean kill comes first and the dirty one second, whereas in the film the dirty one is first and the clean one is second.
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    Another key difference between the film and the book is the fact that one takes place during the cold war and the other takes place after the 9/11 bombing.
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • jrayman1010jrayman1010 New YorkPosts: 7MI6 Agent
    I read Casino Royale quite a while ago, and am trying to remember what Le Chiffre uses to torture Bond. I know, in the movie, he uses the knotted rope, but I seem to remember some sort of hook being used in the novel. Anyone know?
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,886Chief of Staff
    I read Casino Royale quite a while ago, and am trying to remember what Le Chiffre uses to torture Bond. I know, in the movie, he uses the knotted rope, but I seem to remember some sort of hook being used in the novel. Anyone know?

    It's a carpet beater.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Gothic ZMGothic ZM VA, USAPosts: 110MI6 Agent
    I prefer the book. I loved the movie, its one of my favorite movies of all time, but I think the book was better.

    There's one thing in the book that I didn't feel they could handle as well in the movie, and that's where Mathis is talking with Bond after the torture scene about heroes and villains. I might have to read it again, but I remember Bond making a point about not being sure who the heroes and the villains are (which was later used in "Quantum of Solace) and he mentioned that as being the reason for his wanting to retire.

    The way I interpreted the moment was that he was certain about who he was and who Le Chiffre was, until Le Chiffre made a comment about Bond playing Red Indians. With this, he thought about how he himself could actually be the villain in the scenario. Le Chiffre, if I remember correctly, opened up a chain of Brothels to make some money, but some time later a new law made them illegal, and the Brothel chain failed, and Le Chiffre lost a lot of money for SMERSH. He later set the Baccarat game up in an attempt to get the money back, or be killed. It seems to me that, everything he was doing was not villainous, and not illegal. He was trying to save himself, and Bond comes along to prevent him from getting the money back, and therefore facing death.

    I didn't think the movie handled that idea very well. I think the movie really set him up as more of a villain (in the scenario of the movie), by actually having Le Chiffre attempt to destroy an airplane. This made him seem more like an actual villain, to me, and less like a man that's was just trying to make some money and ended up in trouble. That's what I thought anyway....
    "A dry martini, in a deep champagne goblet. Three measures of Gordons, one of Vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until its ice cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?" - Ian Fleming's 'Casino Royale'

    "We're just too different... I mean, you're dead...." - Tim Burton's 'Corpse Bride'
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,308MI6 Agent
    Yeah I agree. The speech with Mathis was really key to CR imo, and they ditched it for the idea that he might be a villain, which didn't come to much.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Gothic ZMGothic ZM VA, USAPosts: 110MI6 Agent
    Well that is all I can think of at the moment

    Post other things then they will be added on to this list, Post which you would prefer Novel or Film.

    How about, (novel) Bond not being involved with Le Chiffre losing his money and (film) Bond being involved with it....

    Also, (novel) failed brothel chain and (film) foiled stock market plot...

    Also, for the film section, you could put attempted poison to go with the novel's gunman trying to kill Bond scene....
    "A dry martini, in a deep champagne goblet. Three measures of Gordons, one of Vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until its ice cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?" - Ian Fleming's 'Casino Royale'

    "We're just too different... I mean, you're dead...." - Tim Burton's 'Corpse Bride'
  • blofeld#1blofeld#1 Posts: 118MI6 Agent
    got to go with ????????????????????????????
    the novel its better than the film. Le Chiffe isn't really a villain he's a messed up guy in a messed up world.
  • Mr. Arlington BeechMr. Arlington Beech Posts: 105MI6 Agent
    for anyone who cares

    here's the entire baccarat game between bond and le chiffre


    Player - (final score) - [cards dealt] - W (winner) B (Baccarat)

    The game was strict Chemin de Fer. Le Chiffre was the bank for the length of the game. Bond sat across from le Chiffre, hence he is not the immediate player against him

    500,000 Franc bet
    The Greek - 7 - (7, Q)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (4, 5) - W

    1 million Franc bet
    The Greek - 4 - (unk. 3 card hand)
    Le Chiffre - 7 - (unk.) - W

    2 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (4, 5) - W
    Le Chiffre - 0 - (J, J) - B

    2 million Franc bet
    Mrs. DuPont - unk. - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 8 - (unk.) - W

    4 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 5 - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 7 - (J, 4, 3) - W

    8 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - unk. - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (unk. natural nine) - W

    16 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 6 - (K, A, 5)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (Q, 5 ,4) - W

    ^This is the hand where Bond busts and Felix Leiter covers bonds re buy

    32 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (Q, Q, 9) - W
    Le Chiffre - 8 - (K, 3, 5)

    ^this is where Bond essentially bankrupts Le Chiffre

    6 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (unk.) - W
    Le Chiffre - 0 - (K, K) - B

    ^this is where Bond finishes off Le Chiffre
  • VeronaVerona Posts: 54MI6 Agent
    I think both are excellent.
  • AdamOmegaAdamOmega Edmonton, AB, CanadaPosts: 297MI6 Agent
    Having read the book and watched the movie, I think I actually prefer the movie.

    When I used to write on other forums, I remember how others would speculate about it before it even came out, saying things like, "there should be only one action scene" or "they should make it an R-rated movie", etc, etc. Casino Royale (the movie) actually managed to provide an equilibrium for fans of the films, as well as the books. It was just as exciting as Goldfinger, but much like the book in terms of character accuracy and the basic premise. They kept the torture scene, but they augmented it with dark humour. And the opening chase scene and airport pursuit? Probably some of the best stuntwork of the decade. While the book is great as a establing point, I think the best Fleming novels come after it, i.e. From Russia With Love.
    "The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker

    1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,309MI6 Agent
    CR is a very strong novel. CR is a very strong film.
    However, CR the novel is primarily involved with Bond and his inner self, his thoughts and feelings. As some osts mention above, he is reflecting on his role in the esponage world already and this is a theme Fleming returns to time and again in the novels. It's a very plain story, and it draws the reader in by descriptive brilliance.
    The movie while staying true to the spirit of the story misses the point of the novel by a long way and turns it into a rather unsettling sadistic two hander followed by an unlikely love story. We don't get under the character of Bond at all, at least not Flemings Bond, maybe Purvis, Wade and Craig's. And the two extended chase scenes early on are completely irrelevant to the overall plot, they could have been summarised/condensed and saved us about 20 minutes on its running time.
    Overall I prefer the novel, which is concise and leaves room for doubt about the main protagonisits, the movie doesn't do this and is much too black and white.
  • hegottheboothegottheboot USAPosts: 327MI6 Agent
    The novel is the starting off point for Fleming. He had to establish everything and see what worked. That being said, the prose is just so full of life that it is impossible not to like. I like the fact that the whole "this is the first Bond so he's starting out" is kept to an extreme minimum in the novel. Not to mention the ending is a foreshadowing of later Fleming...
    The film is a jumbled up mess that is light-years away from the book.
    Texas Hold Em? I don't think so. Bond plays baccarat! And where is my Bentley? She'd never let me down by rolling over 7 times just by swerving. (Unless there was newsprint involved.)
  • Mr. Arlington BeechMr. Arlington Beech Posts: 105MI6 Agent
    additionally, you cannot really expect the film to follow the book true to form.

    it's the 21st century, after 48 years of making films, you can't expect a film made in 2008 to be set in 1956.
  • perdoggperdogg Posts: 432MI6 Agent
    for anyone who cares

    here's the entire baccarat game between bond and le chiffre


    Player - (final score) - [cards dealt] - W (winner) B (Baccarat)

    The game was strict Chemin de Fer. Le Chiffre was the bank for the length of the game. Bond sat across from le Chiffre, hence he is not the immediate player against him

    500,000 Franc bet
    The Greek - 7 - (7, Q)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (4, 5) - W

    1 million Franc bet
    The Greek - 4 - (unk. 3 card hand)
    Le Chiffre - 7 - (unk.) - W

    2 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (4, 5) - W
    Le Chiffre - 0 - (J, J) - B

    2 million Franc bet
    Mrs. DuPont - unk. - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 8 - (unk.) - W

    4 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 5 - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 7 - (J, 4, 3) - W

    8 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - unk. - (unk.)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (unk. natural nine) - W

    16 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 6 - (K, A, 5)
    Le Chiffre - 9 - (Q, 5 ,4) - W

    ^This is the hand where Bond busts and Felix Leiter covers bonds re buy

    32 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (Q, Q, 9) - W
    Le Chiffre - 8 - (K, 3, 5)

    ^this is where Bond essentially bankrupts Le Chiffre

    6 million Franc bet
    J. Bond - 9 - (unk.) - W
    Le Chiffre - 0 - (K, K) - B

    ^this is where Bond finishes off Le Chiffre



    Fn76r.jpg
    "And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
  • perdoggperdogg Posts: 432MI6 Agent
    Scribe74 wrote:
    In CR (the film), Bond earns his Double-O status killing a crooked section chief and the chief's informant. One killing takes place in a public restroom, the other takes place the section chief's office in Prague.

    In CR (the novel), Bond earns his Double-O status killing a double-agent in New York. If I remember correctly, he snipers the guy in an upper floor office at Rockefeller Plaza. I can't remember the other guy he kills! Someone help me out . . . the hour is late and my brain's tired!


    NB: Bond considers the first kill in Cold Blood.
    "And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    edited June 2010
    You know I think it's worth mentioning that Renee Mathis and James Bond were friends before the story of the Casino Royale novel began but in the movie they barely know each other because they just met. So that scene in the movie where James Bond is just sitting there having a drink before he says, "Mathis," then he gets up and he starts running, has very little weight to it.
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,309MI6 Agent
    You know I think it's worth mentioning that Renee Mathis and James Bond were friends before the story of the Casino Royale novel began but in the movie they barely know each other because they just met. So that scene in the movie where James Bond is just sitting there having a drink before he says, "Mathis," then he gets up and he starts running, has very little weight to it.

    Yeah, their relationship is badly handled in the film. The deciet of Mathis in the movie was an unnecessary twist which the writers tried to rectify in QOS. I had no idea the airplane scene in QOS was lifted form CR (in terms of dialogue). I think that's a failure of the writers again as it had very little impact. I was more taken aback seeing 007 get drunk than hear him philosophising!
  • Mister GreeneMister Greene Posts: 224MI6 Agent
    I read the novel and truly enjoyed both. the only problem I have is when i read the novels not trying to picture the movie Bond. the movie was very good, better than some of the previous attempts of the franchise. and if i had to pick I would go with the novel just for the fact that it transports us back to the age of the Cold War and the intrigue of the spy game.
  • Blood_StoneBlood_Stone Posts: 183MI6 Agent
    I was disappointed Vesper's letter wasn't used in the film.
  • jeffchjeffch Posts: 163MI6 Agent
    The torture scene in the book is much more violent. In the movie Bond makes wise cracks at Le Chiffre. In the book hes barely able to speak.
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,309MI6 Agent
    jeffch wrote:
    The torture scene in the book is much more violent. In the movie Bond makes wise cracks at Le Chiffre. In the book hes barely able to speak.

    Sadly this is a standard trick employed by writers / producers who are concerned they won't get an appropriate certificate for the movie. A little bit of humour makes all the violence palletable - apparently!
    I agree with you however. If I'd had a carpet beater smacked into my nads I'd be writhing in agony. Wisecracks? Doubt it.
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    Fleming was familiar with pain in the nether regions after dealing with an agonizing bout of kidney stones. He also knew agents in the war that had been tortured this way (the Gestapo also liked using hammers on the toes and fingers). No man - not even Bond, could stay conscious through this, so the way he describes his behaviour in the scene is pretty accurate. I thought they did a great job in showing the raw wincing power of the scene in the film (many people find it hard to watch) - Craig did a great job showing alternate feelings of fear, hate and pain in the scene. I really enjoyed the humor they injected into it..it was another way to have the character show defiance towards his torturer. Bond/Craig assumes he's not going to survive it, so it's his way of spitting in Le Chiffre's face.

    I wished they had included the bomb assassination attempt in the street scene from the novel where the bombers end up blowing themselves up. I guess they used this theme in the translation to the script by making it into the bomber Bond chases in the beginning of the film. They probably decided against the book scene as it would remind the audience too much of the daily suicide bombs that kill people in the Middle East.

    Le Chiffre in the novel was indeed a villain - not just a brothel owner. He worked for SMERSH, being one of their "chief agents in France". He was chief paymaster to a communist controlled trade union in Alsace. He thought he could skim the money he was getting from Moscow to line his own pockets, but hen he got too deep in the hole and had to play the casino to make up the money. So, I have no sympathy for him. They merely updated this for the film by having Le Chiffre be a financier who skimmed the terrorists money in order to make a killing in the stockmarket dealing with the destruction of the airliner. Different methods but same goals and same type of immoral villain.
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