GoldenEye vs. Casino Royale

JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
edited April 2009 in The James Bond Films
Which Martin Campbell Bond film do you prefer the first one GoldenEye or the second one Casino Royale? I like both films but I think I kind of prefer GoldenEye because I thought it had better pacing, Casino Royale is a great film but it was too long and it slowed down considerably after the torture scene.

Also on a personal note I think I prefer the beach scene in GoldenEye where Natalya berated Bond for being so callous, over watching Vesper warm up to Bond at the hospital in Casino Royale.
"I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

"I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
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Comments

  • 84208420 Posts: 721MI6 Agent
    Casino Royale For Me. -{ :D
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    CR for me, I like Goldeneye but I find it can get a little tedious.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I too like the Beach scene in Goldeneye the line about "its what keeps you alone" is great but I do prefer CR.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    Casino Royale. Goldenye is a good film, and so is Brosnan, but that music score throughout makes me want to physically hurt myself. Well, not quite, but almost. Also, I start to lose interest after the train scene, before the Caribean. I agree with Thunderpussy though, I do like that scene on the beach, I don't know why.
    Casino Royale has a quality about it that I love, the cinematography is stunning. It's also very close (in essence) to the book, which I liked a great deal.
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  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,279MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    For me Goldeneye is the superior film by a very wide margin as I find it to be a more solid and entertaining effort in just about every aspect:

    - The PTS in GE has one of those spectacular Bond stunts the series used to be renowned for. Like those great PTS sequences from the Connery and Moore days, it's a largely self-contained mini-adventure that comes to a satisfying and explosive conclusion. CR's PTS consists of a boring conversation intercut with a forgettable fight; the grainy black and white photography coming across more as a gimmick than anything else.

    - The plot of GE is worthy of Bond, with the fate of a whole nation hanging in the balance whereas CR revolves around trying to bankrupt a terrorist via a poker game.

    - Alec Trevalian makes for a worthy and formidable adversary who is able to match Bond physically and mentally at most every turn. LeChiffre is a weak and cowardly character who's only agenda is to save his own skin; he lacks the vision and ambition of Bond's more classic foes. Also, Onatopp and Ourumov are far more effective henchpersons than Dimitrios and LeChiffre's nameless and forgettable helpers.

    - Natalya is both an attractive and strong character who is actually of help to Bond in succeeding at his mission. Vesper is an annoying, weak, pathetic character who contributes very little to the story (other than her constant psychoanalysis of Bond and her refusal to help him during the poker match) and ultimately commits suicide rather than face up to her actions.

    - The finale of GE inside the Arecibo satellite station is a good action piece and the villain gets a satisfying comeuppance via Bond's hand. In CR Bond wins the poker game thru literally the luck of the cards and survives his encounter with LeChiffre via a weak, deus-ex-machina appearance of a secondary character at a convenient moment.

    - M is kept in check in GE. She shows up, gives Bond his assignment, and then disappears ... as it should be. Reboot be damned, I also enjoyed seeing Bond interact with Q and Moneypenny. In CR M acts more like Bond's disapproving mother, interjecting herself into the plot and scolding and second guessing him at seemingly every turn.

    - Pierce Brosnan gives us a Bond who is in the prime of his career, a seasoned agent who methodically and professionally follows the clues, solves his assignment and defeats the bad guy both thru his wits and ultimately mano a mano. He is able to project toughness while also still retaining the character's sense of humor. Daniel Craig plays Bond as a surly, humorless rookie 00 with a nearly perpetual chip on his shoulder; a screw-up who fails to capture Obano, gets cleaned out at the poker table and is only saved by Leiter's intervention, gets captured by LeChiffre and only survives thru Mr. White's intervention, loses the poker winnings to White's organization (thus indirectly funding its terrorist activities) and only finds White thru yet another convenient deus-ex-machina contrivance involving Vesper's phone. In terms of successfully completing his assignment, he really doesn't do much to impress his superiors (or me for that matter).

    I never really got the charm of CR. It doesn't tell a particularly memorable story and repeated viewings have only diminished what little regard I ever had for the film. The "contributions" to the script by the overrated Paul Haggis only serve to turn the film into "The Deconstruction of James Bond". About the only area in which CR comes out on top of GE is the music as I've always felt David Arnold's compositions to be superior to Eric Serra's lone effort.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    I'm not a fan of Campbell's direction, though I admit he has flair. (Good review btw TonyDP). And is good with the action, unlike most other directors of the Mickey and Babs era.

    I've noticed he is a hard act to follow, not because he's so good, but rather because he skirts around things a bit. That's to say, the next guy doesn't have much to work with. GE dealt with the end of the Cold War, so TND has to suss out Bond's world afresh, while no one really knows what Quantum is about at the end of CR (and still don't after QoS), he leaves it too open imo and the next guy has to sort it out.

    Generally I prefer the idea of CR these days, GE just seems a bit too formulaic and non-committal from Brosnan. I prefer the look of CR. Don't care for the female leads in either. Still Tony DP missed out how the mi6 crew is better in GE!
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    TonyDP wrote:
    For me Goldeneye is the superior film by a very wide margin as I find it to be a more solid and entertaining effort in just about every aspect...
    I agree completely, and I like that you mentioned Vesper's psychoanalysis. Yes, I know, you probably didn't get it from me, however I guess, great minds do think alike as they say. :))

    That actually reminds me of something that was blatant in both Campbell films; M's psychoanalysis and judgements of Bond. She started in GE with the 'mysoginystic dinosaur' speech before continuing with my least favourite scene in CR; the scene in her apartment. :#
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    I'm not a fan of Campbell's direction, though I admit he has flair. (Good review btw TonyDP). And is good with the action, unlike most other directors of the Mickey and Babs era.
    I think that Campbell is an average director who is capable of the odd terrific effort; GE and The Mask of Zorro. Interestingly, I'm not a big fan of either CR or The Legend of Zorro which suggests that IMO Campbell is the kind of director who is not particularly skilled at revisiting characters. I really hope he doesn't revisit Bond yet again. :#
    Generally I prefer the idea of CR these days, GE just seems a bit too formulaic and non-committal from Brosnan.
    I know what you mean. The idea of CR, like that of LTK, sounds great to me. However, like with LTK, I don't like CR's execution. I think that the idea of Bond using a game of cards to capture a terrorist is fantastic. Like with LTK's revenge theme, it's fresh and non-formulaic.

    However in the case of both films, I think that the concept is let down by the casting and screenplay. Just as I would have replaced Dalton with Connery, Brosnan or even Moore, and improved the screenplay, I would have replaced Craig with Brosnan and improved the screenplay including getting rid of the reboot.

    This is actually where I start to disagree with you NP. Although GE, in theory, is not as fresh as CR, (although in practice I think it is much more fresh), I don't think that Brosnan was non-committal. IMO he gave his *second best performance (after TWINE) and the eighth greatest Bond performance of all time. :D


    *Can this be the first time in 2009 I ranked something? :o


    BTW, Tony, does it scare you that Campbell will be directing Green Lantern? Or does it not matter to you?
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,279MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    Dan Same wrote:
    BTW, Tony, does it scare you that Campbell will be directing Green Lantern? Or does it not matter to you?

    Kind of off topic but since you asked, I think Campbell will do a good job because to me he seems to bring his "A" game when tackling a property for the first time. Maybe that's why I like his first Bond and Zorro outings better than his second attempts at both. So following that line of thinking, I'm hopeful he'll do a good job on GL, if it ever gets off the ground (after a flurry of rumors, things have once again gone very quiet).
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    TonyDP wrote:
    I never really got the charm of CR.

    I think what people find charming about Casino Royale (2006) is the simple fact that Martin Campbell took a novel that was half a century old and updated it without straying too far from the book. If you compare the plot of the movie to the plot of the novel it's pretty close. There are some very noticeable differences to be sure but I think Campbell captured the spirit of Ian Fleming's first Bond novel.
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited April 2009
    I think what people find charming about Casino Royale (2006) is the simple fact that Martin Campbell took a novel that was half a century old and updated it without straying too far from the book. If you compare the plot of the movie to the plot of the novel it's pretty close. There are some very noticeable differences to be sure but I think Campbell captured the spirit of Ian Fleming's first Bond novel.

    I agree. CR charmed the socks off me with its retro-literary take on James Bond---a true tough guy with a veneer of sophistication, who is fallible and makes mistakes, not the least of which is falling for a double agent.

    The film is action heavy at the beginning, plot heavy in the middle and character heavy at the end, with an extended coda that mirrors its source novel. The spirit and intent of the book remains very much intact; and much of the criticism of the film's story and its elements are rightly shared by the book---and I wouldn't have it any other way B-)

    This isn't your father's cinematic Bond---it's Fleming's Bond.* It's too bad that there's a sizable vocal minority who doesn't care to see Bond in these terms...but you can't please everyone. Personally, I'm quite happy with the state of Bond in 2009.

    *Merely the opinion of the post's author; not intended as a smite upon anyone else's opinion, nor a proclamation of absolutely the last word on the subject. In some instances, may cause chafing, the condition known as 'sausage fingers,' visions of the apocalypse, hyperventilation, varying box office returns in different countries for reasons the author had best not comment upon, loose bowel syndrome, the shakes, the creeping crud, the screaming meemies, trench foot, trench mouth, a lifelong crush on Sylvia Trench, an appreciation for a darker Fleming-inspired James Bond, the heartbreak of psoriasis, acid reflux, night sweats, post-posting stress disorder, a firm conviction that Amy Winehouse is hiding under the bed with a pirate's dagger clenched between her teeth, and jungle rot. If rash develops, discontinue use.
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    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
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  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,279MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    This isn't your father's cinematic Bond---it's Fleming's Bond.* It's too bad that there's a sizable vocal minority who doesn't care to see Bond in these terms...but you can't please everyone. Personally, I'm quite happy with the state of Bond in 2009.

    I read CR many many years ago. It really didn't resonate with me on any level (and that may be part of the reason for my cool reaction to the movie) but quite honestly, from my recollections of the book, Craig's interpretation was different from what we got in the text in many ways. I remember the Bond of the novel as a somewhat fastidious, experienced and slightly world weary agent who enjoyed the finer things in life and partook of them when he could.

    Craig's rookie Bond in CR was a Terminator-like entity who could fall off cranes, crash thru solid walls, get shot with nailguns, get whacked repeatedly in the nuts and seemingly bounce right back with only a few surface scratches to show for it. His wearing of a tux only after Vesper has one fitted for him (and his initial furious reaction upon seeing it) struck me as very un-Fleming as did his overbearing arrogance and cockiness. I never saw Craig have eggs benedict or drink coffee (two staples from the books as I recall). Craig's Bond seemed to resent his upbringing (Vesper even comments on this on the train) and even the kills he makes to get his 00 are different from what I recall of the novel. His relationship and interactions with M were also radically different and I find it hard to believe Fleming's Bond would ever break into M's house (unless he'd been brainwashed by SMERSH). And of course, Craig looks nothing like Fleming's Bond.

    So to me, this whole notion of Craig being Fleming's Bond seems off base and he is to my eyes no more or less Fleming than any of his predecessors. They all shared certain qualities with the literary edition while also bringing their own facets to the character.

    This is all my opinion of course, based on my recollections of CR and several other novels that I've read over the years.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited April 2009
    TonyDP wrote:
    ...to me, this whole notion of Craig being Fleming's Bond seems off base and he is to my eyes no more or less Fleming than any of his predecessors. They all shared certain qualities with the literary edition while also bringing their own facets to the character.

    This is all my opinion of course, based on my recollections of CR and several other novels that I've read over the years.

    Well, I understand your ongoing unhappiness with pretty much everything that's gone on with Bond since 2005, and it does sadden me somewhat. We will always disagree about Craig and Fleming, and no minds will be changed today. You enjoyed the Moore years more than I did; I couldn't wait for them to end. If you feel that Roger Moore was every bit as much Fleming as the others, all I can do is throw up my hands in hopeless surrender. C'est la guerre :# No two people view a piece of art the same way.

    Fleming's Bond wasn't a Terminator entity. All he did was: withstand having his nuts thwacked and be betrayed by a double agent with whom he'd fallen in love (CR), had a pinky finger broken (LALD), have a cliff fall on him, get the crap beaten out of him while tied to a chair, have to cut himself loose from ropes with a blowtorch, only to undergo the dreaded steam hose (MR), suffer a 'Brooklyn stomping' by guys with boots and catch a throwing knife with his torso (DAF), be poisoned by a poison-tipped shoe that found its target (FRWL)...well, you get the idea... ;) To me, all of these things say Daniel Craig's James Bond---and none of the others. Hell, Craig might even be able to tackle a giant squid, and survive a high-altitude plunge from a fast-rising hot-air balloon B-)

    I think that the essential elements of Ian Fleming's James Bond has been better served by Craig, and the reboot, than anything which has come since Saint Sean The First...and history will record it thus. After DAD, the character---and IMNO the franchise---had reached a point of diminishing creative (if not financial) returns. Kudos to them for being proactive.

    It's not about how he looks, not at all. Nor is it whether or not Craig does everything Fleming's Bond did in the CR novel: the coffee, the fastidiousness, the world-weariness, et al. I've come to believe that Eon's long term strategy is to get Craig's 'early 00 career' Bond to that point, over the course of his tenure---whether that's three pictures, or four or five---and then move into a 'revised status quo' with whomever succeeds him. Time will tell if I'm right, or 'off base' with that prediction.

    I think Vesper's remark about Bond resenting his upbringing is something the producers have chosen to infer from the whole of Fleming's Bond...and perhaps Pearson's expansion on it? To me, it fits. What can I say? Bond's intrusion into M's home is an oft-cited example; personally, I don't think Fleming's Bond would have hesitated if, through the events of the story, Bond had thought it necessary to do so. It is also as much a reflection of our current society as anything else. Do we want our Bond to be a docile 'yes man'? Fleming's Bond certainly wasn't---he didn't shoot the sniper in the TLD short story, either, ;) so 007 bucking convention is hardly unprecedented.

    Overall, it's certainly a melding of 'old school' Bond with modern audience expectations. The good news, for me, is that it's been accomplished while paying due diligence to the fundamentals of what literary Bond was...and if Craig does a couple more, I think there are still some major pleasant surprises in store for everyone---even his most devoted detractors.

    Back on topic: While I like both of Martin Campbell's Bond films, IMRO Casino Royale is the best and most important of the two.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,279MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    Well, I understand your ongoing unhappiness with pretty much everything that's gone on with Bond since 2005, and it does sadden me somewhat.

    Not at all. As I mentioned in several threads, I liked QoS and thought it a much better and more entertaining film - given my tastes - than CR. It was a definite step back towards the kinds of Bond movies I like and Craig acted far more like the kind of Bond I gravitate to.

    Take another look at my last post and you'll see that my comments were largely aimed at the quality of CR's script, who's plot, structure and characterizations just didn't do it for me. Yes, some of those weaknesses and structural issues are carryovers from the novel but that doesn't change the fact that they are still there. At no point did I bash Craig or QoS or anything that has come since.

    So, other than this whole "no more Bond until 2011" business, I'm fine with where the series is and hopeful that both the films and Craig will continue to evolve into something all factions can embrace.
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    GE is a far superior film, rather than repeat what Tony detailed so well, I will just say I agree with every point he made. {[] I will also add that the poker game was tedious and provided little excitement, unlike the poker game that Fleming described so well in the novel. In addition, Eva Green's Vesper is nothing, I say nothing, like the Vesper in the novel and Craig's and Green's love for each other is completly unconvincing.

    My last point, which when I have time I will expand on, is that Craig's Bond is not at all like Fleming's Bond. But, that is a post for another day and another thread.
  • Krassno GranitskiKrassno Granitski USAPosts: 896MI6 Agent
    I prefer Casino Royale on almost all levels except the girl and villain. Other than that it's not close.
    unlike the poker game that Fleming described so well in the novel.
    Poker game? I believe you mean baccarat game
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    I prefer Casino Royale on almost all levels except the girl and villain. Other than that it's not close.
    unlike the poker game that Fleming described so well in the novel.
    Poker game? I believe you mean baccarat game

    In the novel, they played baccaret, in the film Texas Hold Em, both are a form of poker, so I referred to the card games as poker.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    TonyDP wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    BTW, Tony, does it scare you that Campbell will be directing Green Lantern? Or does it not matter to you?
    Kind of off topic but since you asked, I think Campbell will do a good job because to me he seems to bring his "A" game when tackling a property for the first time. Maybe that's why I like his first Bond and Zorro outings better than his second attempts at both. So following that line of thinking, I'm hopeful he'll do a good job on GL, if it ever gets off the ground (after a flurry of rumors, things have once again gone very quiet).
    I agree. I actually mentioned it in a previous post; Campbell IMO isn't particularly great at revisiting characters. Hopefully if GL is good, he won't return for a sequel.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    In the novel, they played baccaret, in the film Texas Hold Em, both are a form of poker, so I referred to the card games as poker.
    Are you sure about that? ?:) I've never heard baccaret get referred to as a type of poker before.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    CR charmed the socks off me with its retro-literary take on James Bond---a true tough guy with a veneer of sophistication, who is fallible and makes mistakes, not the least of which is falling for a double agent.

    Do you like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond and Vesper were sitting in the hospital garden? Vesper said "You're not gonna let me in there you got you're armor back on." and Bond said "I have no armor left you stipped it of me."

    I don't care for that scene, I'm sort of indifferent to it because I guess it didn't leave an impression on me. As morbid as it sounds I think I prefer Vesper's death scene, just hearing that sad music and watching Vesper drown was an image I'll never forget.

    By the way do you like that Carribean beach scene in GoldenEye? I do, I don't know why but I do and for some reason I think it's better than of the all romantic scenes between Bond (Craig) and Vesper (Green) combined.
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    In the novel, they played baccaret, in the film Texas Hold Em, both are a form of poker, so I referred to the card games as poker.
    Are you sure about that? ?:) I've never heard baccaret get referred to as a type of poker before.

    I rest my case.

    http://blog.worldvillage.com/recreation/baccarat_poker.html
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    CR charmed the socks off me with its retro-literary take on James Bond---a true tough guy with a veneer of sophistication, who is fallible and makes mistakes, not the least of which is falling for a double agent.

    Do you like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond and Vesper were sitting in the hospital garden? Vesper said "You're not gonna let me in there you got you're armor back on." and Bond said "I have no armor left you stipped it of me."

    Sorry for the double post, but I read this after responding to Dan's assertion. T

    The above quoted line is one of the all time least Fleming lines ever spoken.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    You learn something new every day. :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,860MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    Dan Same wrote:
    In the novel, they played baccaret, in the film Texas Hold Em, both are a form of poker, so I referred to the card games as poker.
    Are you sure about that? ?:) I've never heard baccaret get referred to as a type of poker before.

    I rest my case.

    http://blog.worldvillage.com/recreation/baccarat_poker.html

    Sorry Barry Nelson, but baccarat is nothing like poker. This is the first time I've ever heard someone calling it poker. There are a "few" differences.
    -A pokerhand consists of 5 cards (fullhouse, straight flush etc etc) It is impossible to make a pokerhand in baccarat since you can only hold a maximum of 3 cards.
    -Baccarat is always played head to head. The dealer/bank against another player (an exception is when more then one person puts up money to "banco" the dealer, but they still play as just one player, since they play just one set of cards)
    -Even the cardrankings are different.
    -The way to win is different, not a combination of cards (pokerhand) will win it, just make sure you are as close as possible to 9.
    -The only thing baccarat and poker have in common is that it is played with cards. Baccarat is closer to blackjack. To call baccarat a variation of poker is like calling tennis a variation of baseball. Because in both you use something to hit a ball and it is both played on gravel (well a baseball infield is made of gravel anyway, but you get my point). Or that football (soccer) is a variation of long distance running because in both you use your feet.

    I advise you to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccarat
    this gives a good outlining of the game. (The variation of baccarat that Bond usually plays is Chemin de fer). You will see that the blogger you are reffering to makes more mistakes than one.

    And with that, I rest my case :))

    Now on topic. I love CR, but I love GE just a bit more. Maybe because we had to wait so long for it, maybe because it has more of a "Bondfeel" to it, IMHO. Maybe because it was the first 007 movie that I saw in the cinema.
    {[]
    1. Ohmss 2. Frwl 3. Op 4. Tswlm 5. Tld 6. Ge 7. Yolt 8. Lald 9. Cr 10. Ltk 11. Dn 12. Gf 13. Qos 14. Mr 15. Tmwtgg 16. Fyeo 17. Twine 18. Sf 19. Tb 20 Tnd 21. Spectre 22 Daf 23. Avtak 24. Dad
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    Do you like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond and Vesper were sitting in the hospital garden? Vesper said "You're not gonna let me in there you got you're armor back on." and Bond said "I have no armor left you stipped it of me."

    Sorry for the double post, but I read this after responding to Dan's assertion. T

    The above quoted line is one of the all time least Fleming lines ever spoken.

    Which one the line Vesper had spoken or Bond's line?
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited April 2009
    ...withstand having his nuts thwacked and be betrayed by a double agent with whom he'd fallen in love (CR), had a pinky finger broken (LALD), have a cliff fall on him, get the crap beaten out of him while tied to a chair, have to cut himself loose from ropes with a blowtorch, only to undergo the dreaded steam hose (MR), suffer a 'Brooklyn stomping' by guys with boots and catch a throwing knife with his torso (DAF), be poisoned by a poison-tipped shoe that found its target (FRWL)...well, you get the idea... ;) To me, all of these things say Daniel Craig's James Bond---and none of the others. Hell, Craig might even be able to tackle a giant squid, and survive a high-altitude plunge from a fast-rising hot-air balloon B-)

    I view this---the price exacted on Bond for being a man of action---as a key element of the character...as written by Ian Fleming. Now, one can argue all day long that it isn't key to his/her own preference for the character...but it's an absolute fact that Fleming wrote these things, and I stand by my assertion that Craig's interpretation of the role is the only one where such things are clearly no longer 'off the table.'

    To call it 'not Fleming,' though...hmm. ?:) I'll just gently continue to disagree ;)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited April 2009
    CR charmed the socks off me with its retro-literary take on James Bond---a true tough guy with a veneer of sophistication, who is fallible and makes mistakes, not the least of which is falling for a double agent.

    Do you like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond and Vesper were sitting in the hospital garden? Vesper said "You're not gonna let me in there you got you're armor back on." and Bond said "I have no armor left you stipped it of me."

    I don't mind it nearly as much as many apparently do. Is it one of the classic lines from the film? No. But the film has many classic lines.
    By the way do you like that Carribean beach scene in GoldenEye? I do, I don't know why but I do and for some reason I think it's better than of the all romantic scenes between Bond (Craig) and Vesper (Green) combined.

    I disagree with that; the scene on the beach in GE is fine, but I happen to be quite indifferent to Natalya as a Bond girl, so it probably colours my perception. It's a nice flavouring for the character. Too bad Brozzer never got the chance to do what Craig's done.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    Are you sure about that? ?:) I've never heard baccaret get referred to as a type of poker before.

    I rest my case.

    http://blog.worldvillage.com/recreation/baccarat_poker.html

    Sorry Barry Nelson, but baccarat is nothing like poker. This is the first time I've ever heard someone calling it poker. There are a "few" differences.
    -A pokerhand consists of 5 cards (fullhouse, straight flush etc etc) It is impossible to make a pokerhand in baccarat since you can only hold a maximum of 3 cards.
    -Baccarat is always played head to head. The dealer/bank against another player (an exception is when more then one person puts up money to "banco" the dealer, but they still play as just one player, since they play just one set of cards)
    -Even the cardrankings are different.
    -The way to win is different, not a combination of cards (pokerhand) will win it, just make sure you are as close as possible to 9.
    -The only thing baccarat and poker have in common is that it is played with cards. Baccarat is closer to blackjack. To call baccarat a variation of poker is like calling tennis a variation of baseball. Because in both you use something to hit a ball and it is both played on gravel (well a baseball infield is made of gravel anyway, but you get my point). Or that football (soccer) is a variation of long distance running because in both you use your feet.

    I advise you to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccarat
    this gives a good outlining of the game. (The variation of baccarat that Bond usually plays is Chemin de fer). You will see that the blogger you are reffering to makes more mistakes than one.

    Yep, about to say the same thing.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • JimmyBond0129JimmyBond0129 United States Posts: 263MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    Too bad Brozzer never got the chance to do what Craig's done.

    I think Pierce Brosnan has had one good Bond film (GoldenEye) and that's it if I were Brosnan I would've quit after Campbell left. I would've said "I won't work with any other director besides Martin Campbell." ;)

    Anyway I think Izabella Scorupco is a slightly better Bond girl than Eva Green simply because I thought Natalya's Russian accent was more convincing than Vesper's English accent. You could tell that Green was a foreigner putting on a fake accent. Although Eva was very pretty in Casino Royale I don't know why people say she's hideous. ?:)
    "I admire your courage, Miss?..." "Trench, Sylvia Trench."

    "I admire your luck, Mister?..." "Bond, James Bond."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited April 2009
    Anyway I think Izabella Scorupco is a slightly better Bond girl than Eva Green simply because I thought Natalya's Russian accent was more convincing than Vesper's English accent. You could tell that Green was a foreigner putting on a fake accent. Although Eva was very pretty in Casino Royale I don't know why people say she's hideous. ?:)

    Eva Green, like the Bond era in which she appeared, is fairly polarizing ;) Seems one either likes her, or not. Personally, I find her incredibly appealing, despite her sometimes unfortunate personal choices in makeup and fashion... ;%

    Izabella is much more appealing as herself (to me) than she ever was as Natalya. It's just a taste thing. To me, she was mousy and grating in GE---not a good combination.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
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