1

Topic: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Whilst I prefer my Bond to be more like the books (Dalton) and less like jokey Moore,
Skyfall is just too gloomy and Grim for me.
The story is good and the action scenes are well done but there's not much light relief to
the gloomy story.  You need a balance.  I left the cinema thinking ,I'm not sure I want to see this again.
(Having seen CR 5 times and even QOS twice.)
Ignoring the new film hype after 4 years, this is nowhere near "The best Bond Film".
I would put the 1960s films and Casino Royale ahead of it.

With a different composer the music was mediocre, so much so, that having collected every Bond soundtrack,
I'm seriously contemplating not buying this one. Bring back David Arnold.

It's good that the story is up to date and refreshed, but it falls short of being in the top ten.

Bleuville.

2

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I realy enjoyed Skyfall but agree it is not the best Bond.  Much better than QOS but not quite as good as CR.

Pros:

Great PTS
Good song from Adele.  Welcome relief after Another Way to Die
A more human Bond.  Less of the indestructible superhero of previous movies.  More the character created by Fleming.
Top villian with a genuine motivation for his actions
Excellent new Q.
One of the best casts ever assembled for a Bond movie.
Great chemistry between Bond and M, Bond and Q, Bond and Eve.
Shanghai scenes brilliant.  The fight with Patrice with the lights in the background was excellent.
Nice moment hearing someone call Bond a jumped up little not so rude word .

Cons:

Missed David Arnold for the score.
Lack of real Bond girl.  Severine came and went (probably literally) very quickly.  Was surprised when she got killed.  Eve didn't really classify.
Apart from the PTS no real stunts.  Plenty of action but no real stand out stunts.
Final confrontation with Silva a bit low key.

3

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I can agree with all the pro points.
Better than QOS, Not quite as good as CR.

Although I did think that if you take out the PTS. Then most
of the action is Plenty of running around London, with a few
shoot outs, As mentioned no Big stunt sequences.
  Then again that was probably done because thay wanted the
audience to focus on the story.  Hopefully they'll have some
Big sequences for 24.   ajb007/biggrin

4

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Bleuville wrote:

Whilst I prefer my Bond to be more like the books (Dalton) and less like jokey Moore,
Skyfall is just too gloomy and Grim for me.
The story is good and the action scenes are well done but there's not much light relief to
the gloomy story.  You need a balance.  I left the cinema thinking ,I'm not sure I want to see this again.
(Having seen CR 5 times and even QOS twice.)
Ignoring the new film hype after 4 years, this is nowhere near "The best Bond Film".
I would put the 1960s films and Casino Royale ahead of it.

With a different composer the music was mediocre, so much so, that having collected every Bond soundtrack,
I'm seriously contemplating not buying this one. Bring back David Arnold.

It's good that the story is up to date and refreshed, but it falls short of being in the top ten.

Bleuville.

5

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I agree with the others Pros and Cons.
Like an idiot, I bought the Sky fall sountrack CD at HMV (No Adele-that's separate) and I still think it's poor.
I think they saved some money by filming mostly in Britain and a bit of Turkey. SF-£90M,  QOS-£120M. approx.

A side theme is the use of exotic animals.  The Scorpion and the Komodo Dragon.
CR had the Mongoose and Snake.
(Pop quiz-How many times have scorpions appeared in Bond films? A- 3 - DAF, CR and SF.)

Severine in casino, was actually smoking-haven't seen that for a while.
That's when Bond does some more of his amateur psychology, like with Vesper in CR.

The silhouetted fight was stylish, but the deserted island looked like a rubbish tip-not very scenic !
The silhouetted fight appears as a clip at the end of Everything Or Nothing.
That's a CD I can't wait to get ,about Brocolli and Saltzman with all 6 Bonds contributing.

I may go and see SF again just to absorb the details when I blinked!

Also if M is one of the more important members of MI6, why doesn't she stay behind her desk, and get several people protecting her-not just Bond.
I look forward to Ralph Fiennes as the new male M-Mallory in Bond 24.

Bleuville.

6

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Pros:
- Intresting plot, keeps you entertained and wondering. (Unlike Qos!)
- Beautifull cinematography! 
- Daniel Craig seems to be really comfortable in the role now, it took me untill this film to really realise: "Yes, I now believe that this guy is James Bond!"
- Great acting from everyone in the cast!
- The Bond theme is back, loved when it came on when he got in the DB5!
- Great twist to bring back moneypenny at the end, I didn't see that one coming! I also loved how they put a homage to the old universal exports office, and got it back to that style!!

Cons:
Having just seen it yesterday, and being pretty much blown away by it, so far I can only think of this:
- Severine didn't have much screentime, which I thought was a bit of a shame, her character was intresting, and I think she did well.

There werent much other dissapointments on first viewing for me. Maybe when it sinks in a little bit more, I'll have some more complaints.

My 007 film reviews:  Recapping 007  (NEW LTK EPISODE!)
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7

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Did anyone else think "Inception" when silva's island was introduced.   ajb007/lol

8

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Pros

Craig is very good! I liked his performance in CR and QoS and SF also.
Cinematography!!! Beautiful!
Bringing moneypenny in.
DB5
The whole shanghai part. Everyting beautiful shot and the atmosphere was exactly how it should be. The silhouette fight was good!
The long shot of our villain introduction. I liked it that it was one shot of him talking. No cutting in this introduction.
Bonds roots. I'm a big fan of the books. I liked how they give Bond some character.
The title sequence. Very good! I liked it. Good images and the correct font!
I liked the Q scene! Very different, especially Bond being negative (no Christmas..  ajb007/lol  )

Cons:
The music in the end was a bit of a mess.
Not a great story. I liked it how they wrote the characters, they are interesting, but there is not really a story. I hoped after QoS, they would bring back a world domination plan. I know there was something with computers and stuff but there was no threatening what so ever.
Our villain wasn't very threatening. I know everybody likes him but for me it wasn't bad but there were moments I just saw a man acting.
The pre title sequence. Can someone please explain to me what was so good about this? I was already a bit furious we didn't saw the gunbarrel in the beginning. The pts didn't made this up. I liked the opening shot but the pts didn't gave us anything new. Fight on the train, lost list... mission impossible 1 flashback.. The motorracing on the rooftops sounds cool but wasn't convincing by all the quick cuts, trying to hide the stuntmen. For me, there was no bond feeling to the PTS sadly. I liked it that Bond gets shot by his own team ( i'm so glad i didn't saw the trailer).
No memorable stunt.
The gunbarrel at the end.
No good torture scene, i liked the torture scene in CR. I hoped it would be in this one also...

A lot of cons... but I liked the movie, but I recon that Bond isn't the trendsetter anymore...

Last edited by schaduwoog (1st Nov 2012 16:58)

9

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Bleuville wrote:

(Pop quiz-How many times have scorpions appeared in Bond films? A- 3 - DAF, CR and SF.)

Bleuville.

Wrong. Scorpions were used to torture Bond in DAD.

10

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Fitzochris wrote:
Bleuville wrote:

(Pop quiz-How many times have scorpions appeared in Bond films? A- 3 - DAF, CR and SF.)

Bleuville.

Wrong. Scorpions were used to torture Bond in DAD.

Yes 4 times then. and as in DAD,he had so many scorpions-how poisonous are they?
Will they kill you? or is it just like a bad bee sting ?!

Bleuville.

11

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Bleuville wrote:

Yes 4 times then. and as in DAD,he had so many scorpions-how poisonous are they?
Will they kill you? or is it just like a bad bee sting ?!

Bleuville.

No scorpion is poisonous, you can eat them all.  They are venomous though  ajb007/biggrin

Toxicity depends upon the species.  Some are only like bee stings (usually the big ones with big pincers as we saw in DAD, that species are quite docile and you can handle them safely without getting nailed).  A very select few are deadly to humans to some extent though and these are usually the small variety with small pincers.

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

12

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Bodie wrote:

I realy enjoyed Skyfall but agree it is not the best Bond.  Much better than QOS but not quite as good as CR.

Pros:

Great PTS
Good song from Adele.  Welcome relief after Another Way to Die
A more human Bond.  Less of the indestructible superhero of previous movies.  More the character created by Fleming.
Top villian with a genuine motivation for his actions
Excellent new Q.
One of the best casts ever assembled for a Bond movie.
Great chemistry between Bond and M, Bond and Q, Bond and Eve.
Shanghai scenes brilliant.  The fight with Patrice with the lights in the background was excellent.
Nice moment hearing someone call Bond a jumped up little not so rude word .

Cons:

Missed David Arnold for the score.
Lack of real Bond girl.  Severine came and went (probably literally) very quickly.  Was surprised when she got killed.  Eve didn't really classify.
Apart from the PTS no real stunts.  Plenty of action but no real stand out stunts.
Final confrontation with Silva a bit low key.


I'm with you on most things here, particularly regarding the chemistry between Eve & Bond which I thought was excellent.  Hopefully will lend itself well in the next movie and add a little bit of playful tension.  Very positive about Ralph Fiennes too, as he's a superb actor and lends the harsher persona that I believe such a role would exhibit, (as well as having a leather backed door!!).  Albert Finney was excellent too and probably delievered the line of the entire film.

Wasn't so bothered about a lack of high-end stunts after the PTS tbh (which I thought was absolutely superb), as I found the tube chase to be very enjoyable and it meant that there was more focus upon the acting / story.  Having the DB5 back in was a great call, especially when the machine guns were put to use.  Perhaps another major stunt would have put the icing on the cake, but I'm sure with everything else going on the coffers were nearly bare!

If I were to have a gripe it would be that Silva didn't possibly have the screen time he deserved / needed and I don't truly believe that he came across as the totally evil so & so that we should have been witness too.  Wasn't entirely sold upon the deserted island bit, but it wasn't a major negative.  Also would have liked to have seen more of Severine (for more than one reason  ajb007/wink )

13

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Cons:


The bloody trailers!

T

Bodie wrote:

I realy enjoyed Skyfall but agree it is not the best Bond.  Much better than QOS but not quite as good as CR.

Pros:

Great PTS
Good song from Adele.  Welcome relief after Another Way to Die
A more human Bond.  Less of the indestructible superhero of previous movies.  More the character created by Fleming.
Top villian with a genuine motivation for his actions
Excellent new Q.
One of the best casts ever assembled for a Bond movie.
Great chemistry between Bond and M, Bond and Q, Bond and Eve.
Shanghai scenes brilliant.  The fight with Patrice with the lights in the background was excellent.
Nice moment hearing someone call Bond a jumped up little not so rude word .

Cons:

Missed David Arnold for the score.
Lack of real Bond girl.  Severine came and went (probably literally) very quickly.  Was surprised when she got killed.  Eve didn't really classify.
Apart from the PTS no real stunts.  Plenty of action but no real stand out stunts.
Final confrontation with Silva a bit low key.

I agree pretty much apart from:

Cons:

I didn't like Severine at all, smoking made this worse.

The Eve Moneypenny reveal at the end was a little bit obvious and Bond's line "we've never been formally introduced" was a bit artificial and forced.

Bond picking up her ID or desk name plate and quipping about the surname would have been much more Flemingesque, classy and a real 007 moment, missed opportunity!

With regards to final set-piece, It seemed very protruded and didn't build in the proper way.

I kind of felt a bit let down by Bond that he, to be harsh, caused her death with his pretty awful plan.


Edit: The Royal Navy Wildcat CGI was a bit pants too.

Last edited by Hold Command (2nd Nov 2012 15:10)

14

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Ive watched CR 8 times or even more Quantum around 4' id have to say Skyfall falls in the middle. I believe all this hype thats gong around is plainly cause of the long g between qos and also comemorting 50 years , but still cr is way better than sf

Yes i did ride the CAT

15

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I also agree that the soundtrack is poor. No music that stuck to your head during scenes unlinke Cr or qos, the music during qos opening scene, the music during cr airport chase those were good soundtracks. They say bond was influenced by the darkknight ( skyfall) , id say wasnt close well there is a sense of joker in silva

Yes i did ride the CAT

16

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I was going to make a thread like this, but it's already been done.  Okay, I'll finish out my Pros and Cons series with this post.

Skyfall.  23rd film in the Bond series, the 3rd to feature Daniel Craig.  The development cycle was 4 years long because of MGM's uncertain financial situation.  Coming after the relatively less successful Quantum of Solace, Skyfall was widely acclaimed and stands as one of the best selling movies of all time.

Pros:
*** The theme song (Adele did a great job capturing the magic of the older soulful theme songs)
*** Opening set pieces (The film wastes no time giving you an eventful action packed introduction)
*** Strong acting (Craig as a human Bond, Bardem as a terrifyingly insane villain and a great outro for Dench)
*** Excellent cinematography (Great directing, and every dollar of it's massive budget shows in the final product)
*** The burning house 3rd act (Dedicating a lot of time in one area, redolent of the train act in From Russia With Love)
*** Show's Bonds vulnerabilities and weaknesses (Particularly showing his home and where he came from)
*** Bond is armed with his wits (Just a knife and a handgun, supplied by the wonderfully witty new Q)
*** 21st century relevant themes (Addresses the issue of cyberterrorism and the good/bad of modern technology)
*** Lots of nice scenes overall (M at the conference, Silva in cop disguise, Shanghai fight, Bond wetshaving)

Cons:
*** Story isn't very original (Borrows a lot from The Dark Knight, Silence of the Lambs, Home Alone, Goldeneye and The World Is Not Enough ; but older classic Bond films borrowed elements from other movies too)
*** Plot is a bit contrived (Some parts make no sense, don't adhere well to reality, but it's a movie, so I don't care too much)
Severine (Bond pursues a sex slave.  That's like Abraham Lincoln freeing the slaves and say "Hey, want to work on my garden")

How will Skyfall age?  I would guess that it's going to age well, because there are a lot of undeniably good elements to it.  Sure, the glitter and glow might wear off in years to follow but even so, it's a big accomplishment for its time.

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Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

I*** Story isn't very original (Borrows a lot from The Dark Knight, Silence of the Lambs, Home Alone, Goldeneye and The World Is Not Enough ; but older classic Bond films borrowed elements from other movies too)

You forgot "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Mission Impossible".

"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond  - The Property of a Lady

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Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Pros

Its a primer on how NOT to do a Bond film and will be useful for those writing future ones.

Cons
Everything

19

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

delicious wrote:

Pros

Its a primer on how NOT to do a Bond film and will be useful for those writing future ones.

Cons
Everything

thats being vague.

20

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

I'm not a big fan of Skyfall, sure there were some good bits but for me it went downhill once Silva was introduced. The best bits were the dialogue between Bond and M, especially the scene at her house.

21

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Skyfall is falling a bit on my list.  It went from top 5 to top 10, and now it's at #12 I think.  I moreso enjoyed Connery's first 3 movies, Goldeneye, Dalton's movies, OHMSS and a few of Moore's movies.

22

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Pros:
* Gives us insight into Judi Dench's 'new' M

* Widens the mythology and trappings of the 'new' James Bond universe by bringing in Q, gadgets, Moneypenny, and Gareth Mallory's 'M'

Cons:
* The story bogs down after Bond goes to Shanghai

* Silva is so over-the-top that he becomes a caricature, especially since there's no real explanation offered for why he's doing what he's doing

* Severine is pretty much useless as a character, and there's absolutely no explanation as to why Bond was interested in her or how he knew she was connected to Silva

* It feels like like Moneypenny was 'shoehorned in' in a few places, especially since she really doesn't have much involvement in what James is doing

23

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

DigificWriter wrote:

* Silva is so over-the-top that he becomes a caricature, especially since there's no real explanation offered for why he's doing what he's doing

Isn't he doing it to hurt M and to get revenge for when she left him to die after he was captured and tortured?

"Sic Parvis Magna"
"Greatness From Small Beginnings."

24

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Agreed, he wanted revenge for being abandoned by M.

25

Re: Skyfall-Pros and Cons-SPOILERS.

Robbo88 wrote:
DigificWriter wrote:

* Silva is so over-the-top that he becomes a caricature, especially since there's no real explanation offered for why he's doing what he's doing

Isn't he doing it to hurt M and to get revenge for when she left him to die after he was captured and tortured?

Yeah, the explanation was pretty much in your face and unmissable.  Being betrayed, tortured and disfigured would do it   ajb007/rolleyes

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