Re: Skyfall "Most over-rated film of all time"
delicious wrote:Gassy Man wrote:
And yet if they are ironic characters, what they are saying is not to be taken literally, either.
Irony usually means that the opposite is true/meant of what is being said - e.g. Lenny and Carls's stupidly liking Bond because he doesn't use gadgets etc shows that only people who are like Lenny and Carl (e.g. stupid) like the new Bond - it's a satirical observation about the fact that Bond is no longer Bond. Im not calling anyone stupid BTW but the Simpsons is, as it has always done. e.g. Homer's appalling parenting is aimed at all the bad fathers out there. Satire is a form of comedy which tells us how not to act - e.g. don't be like Carl and Lenny.
There's all sorts of irony -- verbal irony, situatiol irony, dramatic irony, etc. The fact that they are idiots and being taken seriously could be the satire.
1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]
noun, plural i·ro·nies.
1) the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
a) a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b) (especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
The essence of all irony is the notion of an actual meaning being opposite to a literal one. Carl and Lenny are classic satirical fools - they are constantly liking and supporting things that are foolish or stupid. They are almost Shakespearean and wonderful to watch. When a fool speaks an opinion in a satire the message to the audience is "don't agree with this". I for one never take Carl and Lenny seriously because their opinions are generally foolish. Other characters who take them seriously are fools too. Because satire has an ironic sub-text, the audience is constantly focused on the sub-text that is the opposite to the literal text. When Carl and Lenny say they like the new Bond the sub-text is "only a fool would like the new Bond". Of course we may or may not agree with the Simpsons satirical assessment of the new Bond and this is part of the divisive nature of satire - it makes fun of things that some people may like (and who are therefore offended) and others dislike (and who thus support the satire). We see this in political satire all the time. Finally, the sub-text is actually a single voice - the voice of the satire itself which speaks through multiple characters and situations.
BTW the early episode of the Simpsons which features Bond (Bond is called Mr Bont and the villain is Scorpio) is very affectionate toward the franchise and while it makes fun of Bont by having Homer tackle him so that he then gets killed (the ultimate irony for Bond who can never die), it is not satirising Bond as a character/franchise the way Carl and Lenny are doing so about Skyfall.