The Deplorable Sexism of Early Bond Movies

chrisisall · May 2014

Twist the girl's arm, put her in the way of a punch, borderline rape her & turn her from the all-girls-club, turn her towards the sniper's bullet, slap her, throw her in a closet whilst you have a nearby shag, accept the offer of a sex slave girl for the night, set the dogs on that one ... Jeeze, the lack of PC in the pre- 80's movies is shocking. Positively shocking.

)

Seriously though, I was talking to a casual movie fan the other day who said she didn't like most Bond movies, but that Dalton & Brosnan's first films were pretty good (they were fairly female-friendly, as Bond films go).

I was wondering if younger females regard the older films as so sexist they can't even watch them... generally speaking.

Thoughts on this?

AlphaOmegaSin · May 2014

There is a Thread on MI6.com exactly the same as this ?:)

Anyway, the Attitudes to Women in the early Bonds were commonly seen as normal during the Sixties.

chrisisall · May 2014

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

There is a Thread on MI6.com exactly the same as this ?:)

Someone must have copied me!!! X-(

)

Anyway, the Attitudes to Women in the early Bonds were commonly seen as normal during the Sixties.

Doesn't mean we can't discuss their relevance (or lack thereof) to today's society.
Seriously, interesting discussion there, I thought I'd seed it here as well. Lots of serious minded folk here able to discuss this intelligently without undue fuss IMO. -{

AlphaOmegaSin · May 2014

I suppose it's the same when you watch any old Film from the 50's or 60's. There will be some Elements in them that will be seen as 'out of Order by certain Groups in today's Society -{

chrisisall · May 2014

Yeah, always in motion are societal values.
As a kid in martial arts class I realised that women could seriously kick my arse. My ideas of equality evolved there.
No wonder then why Wai Lin is my favourite Bond girl... -{

Firemass · May 2014

chrisisall wrote:

Twist the girl's arm, put her in the way of a punch, borderline rape her & turn her from the all-girls-club, turn her towards the sniper's bullet, slap her, throw her in a closet whilst you have a nearby shag, accept the offer of a sex slave girl for the night, set the dogs on that one

Thoughts on this?

None of your examples are sexist. Sure the ladies get roughed up a bit, but so do male henchmen. I'm sure Bond would use either sex as a human shield.

What is sexist would be Connery dismissing Dink with a slap on the butt and saying "Man talk"

It does bother me when Bond forces himself on a girl…i.e Pussy Galore in the barn, Patricia in TB, and that odd scene in Octopussy. That sends the wrong message about when woman says "no" it means "no"

Mary Goodnight being such a ditz field agent is also aggravating by today's standards.

but hey what do you expect from a series with character names like Pussy Galore and Holly Goodhead ?

Thunderpussy · May 2014

I've seen plenty of modern films where Women get Punched, kicked and as badly
treated as the men in the thrillers. Could be a way of getting an emotional
reaction out of an audience.

) , so No I don't think the early Bonds were any
worse than other movies of the time.

Charmed & Dangerous · May 2014

For me, the films have always portrayed Bond as a professional using any means to get the job done - whether lying, fighting, or seducing as necessary. But granted the bit with Denk in GF and also Sir Roger's "A woman?" Remark to Dr Goodhead do make me wince a bit nowadays, though as TP mentions, they were no worse than other movies at the time.

Don't forget that it wasn't until 1975 that the Sex Discrimination Act was passed as law in the UK, before which there had been lobbying but no serious attempt for equality.

AlphaOmegaSin · May 2014

Like CAD said, Bond has to get Information he's looking for by any Means Necessary. Even if it means slapping a Woman around.

chrisisall · May 2014

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

the bit with Denk in GF and also Sir Roger's "A woman?" Remark to Dr Goodhead do make me wince a bit nowadays

The bit in TSWLM where Bond is about to leave, and then is offered a woman (what else could she be but a bit of a slave), and he decides to stay a while makes me wince as well... 8-)

Thunderpussy · May 2014

BBC4 ( TV), recently showed a few public information films from the 60s, showing
How life in Britain had changed. One of the funniest was about women police officers.
The film narration was so sexist, after showing a female police woman dealing with
a crying child, the voice over said " ...... Of course a female officer can do everything
a male officer can do ".

) as if the public needed reassurance that women could
be as good.

Gassy Man · May 2014

Firemass wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Twist the girl's arm, put her in the way of a punch, borderline rape her & turn her from the all-girls-club, turn her towards the sniper's bullet, slap her, throw her in a closet whilst you have a nearby shag, accept the offer of a sex slave girl for the night, set the dogs on that one

Thoughts on this?

None of your examples are sexist. Sure the ladies get roughed up a bit, but so do male henchmen. I'm sure Bond would use either sex as a human shield.

What is sexist would be Connery dismissing Dink with a slap on the butt and saying "Man talk"

It does bother me when Bond forces himself on a girl…i.e Pussy Galore in the barn, Patricia in TB, and that odd scene in Octopussy. That sends the wrong message about when woman says "no" it means "no"

Mary Goodnight being such a ditz field agent is also aggravating by today's standards.

but hey what do you expect from a series with character names like Pussy Galore and Holly Goodhead ?

Yeah, I'm not sure most or any of the examples qualify as sexist, but it's in the eye of the beholder. I do think that many audiences today are very sensitive, perhaps overly so, to such issues and would call it that -- even if there are equally violent or demeaning examples against men in the very same films.

I do show the barn scene in class and ask students about it. The older students tend to see it the way it was intended -- she is playing hard to get, and Bond knows what her real desires are. Therefore, she doesn't really mean "no." But the younger students, male and female, usually see it as a rape.

On of the director commentaries -- it might even be from Guy Hamilton -- points out what he sees as silliness about Bond being called a sexist for beating up women. He chuckles that they are the enemy or not very nice people who are trying to do the same to him. It's not as though Bond simply goes around mistreating everyone.

The definitions of sexism are relative, of course. Where I work, the ladies see no problem with bashing their husbands or telling jokes about the inadequacies of men -- and they are hypersensitive to issues of sexism against women. But there are far fewer men, and no one really says anything, so the commentary continues. Or worse, they go to a whisper when men walk in the room.

C'est la vie, ha ha.

chrisisall · May 2014

Gassy Man wrote:

I do show the barn scene in class and ask students about it. The older students tend to see it the way it was intended -- she is playing hard to get, and Bond knows what her real desires are. Therefore, she doesn't really mean "no." But the younger students, male and female, usually see it as a rape.

A note to those offended by Bond's semi-rape of Pussy:
She was most definitely NOT an idiot. She was incredibly bright, in fact. She HAD to know she couldn't take Bond in a non-lethal 'Judo barn match'. That was her challenging him. Sexually. And she delighted in his 'winning' her. Hehe heh, you don't open your mouth to a man who's clearly not going to hurt you if you don't want to be deeply kissed.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. -{

Firemass · May 2014

Roger Ebert called it a "sexy judo match" in his book of Great Movies.

Firemass · May 2014

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

Sir Roger's "A woman?" Remark to Dr Goodhead do make me wince a bit nowadays

The only thing that makes me cringe is Roger's hair in that shot.

Pretend you were going to meet a doctor or lawyer and automatically imagined it would be a man.

Bond was admitting his own surprise outloud and thus getting off to a rocky start with Holly.

In Christopher Wood's novelization it reads, 'A woman.' Bond reflected that he could have made more effort to keep the surprise out of his voice."

Charmed & Dangerous · May 2014

Firemass wrote:

Pretend you were going to meet a doctor or lawyer and automatically imagined it would be a man.

Isn't that the sexist bit, right there, though?

)

Thunderpussy · May 2014

In the UK there is a big sexism case building up in the premier league.

) so
It still happens.

Barbel · May 2014

Sexism inside UK football? Next thing there'll be accusations of bullying in the police.... oh wait...

jamesm123 · May 2014

Whaddya mean? Pierce Brosnan had the line about pumping for information, how much pumping is required etc. All Bond movies should be politically un correct. That's the great thing about them. We love it. Whoever says they don't is either a liar or a ****!

chrisisall · May 2014

Bond should be a role model for young children. He should be in a stable monogamous relationship. He should not carry a gun, and he should use violence sparingly, and only as a last resort. He should try to make friends of his enemies, and sympathize with what happened in their childhoods that made them choose a less desirable path in life. They should show him speaking up for women's rights and equal...

Okay, I'll stop.

Charmed & Dangerous · May 2014

Pierce's line about pumping isn't sexist though, it's innuendo. Sexism according to my good friend the Internet means 'prejudice or discrimination based on a person's gender'...

Firemass · May 2014

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

Firemass wrote:

Pretend you were going to meet a doctor or lawyer and automatically imagined it would be a man.

Isn't that the sexist bit, right there, though? )

yup. but the film is fully aware of the situation. bond admits his own prejudgement.

Blackleiter · May 2014

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

There is a Thread on MI6.com exactly the same as this ?:)

Anyway, the Attitudes to Women in the early Bonds were commonly seen as normal during the Sixties.

I don't know about you guys, but if a woman was treated like that where I come from, somebody would get an ass-whuppin'!

)

On a serious note, I notice that only male posters are responding. I wonder how our female AJBers feel about this?

Thunderpussy · May 2014

They can't figure out how to work the keyboard !

)

I'll immediately Apologise , just an example of a sexist remark

( couldn't resist, my inner northern comic )

Manxman · May 2014

Some of the early Bond films were actually ahead of their time in their depiction of women: a case in point is Fiona Volpe in Thunderball. This is a very dangerous professional criminal, who enjoys and exploits her own sexuality, but can more than hold her own in any man's company: note how she speaks to the very intimidating Largo. The character is particularly good as Luciana Paluzzi plays her entirely straight, as opposed to Barbara Carrera's ridiculously over-the-top turn as Fatima Blush in Thunderball remake Never Say Never Again.

chrisisall · May 2014

Excellent point.

Thunderpussy · May 2014

The odd thing , that I find is that Fleming made his female leads. Strong
Independent modern women ( for the most part ), an example would be
Tiffany Case, a very strong character in the novel, yet a bit of a bimbo in
The film. As ( I can't remember the writer ) one writer pointed out , in the
Novel, she was a Lauren Bacall character. Where as on screen she came
across like Lucille Ball.

chrisisall · May 2014

Which girls in the movies were an embarrassment along those lines?

Hmmm...

Oh my, I think Ms. Case is the first real one! Then Rosie, then Mary. The Mankiewicz morons.

MooseWithFleas · May 2014

:laugh2: Nice one CIA

Bibi, Stacey Sutton, and Christmas Jones would be up there.

AlphaOmegaSin · May 2014

Blackleiter wrote:

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

There is a Thread on MI6.com exactly the same as this ?:)

Anyway, the Attitudes to Women in the early Bonds were commonly seen as normal during the Sixties.

I don't know about you guys, but if a woman was treated like that where I come from, somebody would get an ass-whuppin'! )

On a serious note, I notice that only male posters are responding. I wonder how our female AJBers feel about this?

Whoop you Ass

)

Thunderpussy · May 2014

What would Richard Scudamore make of this ?

)

The Deplorable Sexism of Early Bond Movies

Comments