Should James Bond carry assault weapons?

Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
Sorry for too many list threads. I want to get into some discussion. I think the trend of the recent Bond films has allowed assault weapons to be seen as regular. The idea of Connery using an assault weapon would feel out of place. Moore condemned AVTAK for the mass shooting scene. This all seems to cater to a younger generation of kids who are desensitized to violence and have a desire for catharsis.

But I don't think James Bond should be in the business of assault weapons. He's a spy. He uses his wits - not big weapons.

This started, I believe, in Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a bullet-fest. The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool. Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

I'm not in anyway advocating censorship or saying that Eon is responsible for school shootings, but I think it takes a bit of strength to go against the modern trend of more stimulation and more saturation.
«1

Comments

  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool.  Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

    Poor taste IMO. Trying hard to be cool and failed.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    I think Moore handled the Assault Weapons better in my Opinion -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 977MI6 Agent
    This is actually quite difficult question.

    It has allways felt quite strange to me that when Bond partakes these final assaults on villains lair, everybody else carries what is appropriate and Bond carries just his handgun.

    On the other hand, ww2 public school educated officers in the big army (British) did just that, at least in the first years. Only in the SMU:s it was considered proper for the leaders carry same guns as the men.

    Flemings Bond never did these assaults, well once, so we don't really know how IF felt about it. Literary Bond did have heavy artillery, but it was of the handgun variety, or a sniper rifle.

    IMHO Bond is all about practicality, it is like with his suits: in the novels he wore what was appropriate for a lowlevel diplomat of foreign service or a business man. Moore made Bonds clothes look outlandish having Bond trapes through a jungle in a tux like a mental patient on a loose. Graigs Bond, no matter whar you think about Tom Ford or fit of the suits, is much more practical and closer to the IF original.

    Guns should be the same, Bond is a clandestine operator and assault weapons aren't very clandestine. But in the same time he should have the right tools for the job... and I do not mean thermonuclearlaser tooth brushes or invisible cars...
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,107MI6 Agent
    I don't think Bond should carry an assault weapon. A handgun would be easily concealable in his line of work, an assault weapon wouldn't be.
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

    " I don't listen to hip hop!"
  • DutchfingerDutchfinger Holland With LovePosts: 1,240MI6 Agent
    This started, I believe, in Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a bullet-fest.  The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool.  Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

    Didn't Lazenby use one too in the raid of Pizz Gloria in OHMSS? But yes, with the Brosnan films it began to become more regular, already in Goldeneye actually. I agree it takes away from the Bond image, but I never was THAT disturbed by it. At the end of TND Bond and Wai Lin raid the stealth boat, were normally in the older movies a large army would drop in to help Bond, here he's on it's own. While it's still highly unlikely a man would survive that, atleast with machine guns it becomes a LITTLE bit more believe in a scenario like that. But there are several other instances in the Brosnan movies where a machine gun is a bit to much and becomes his signature. I never really thought about Bond shooting Mr. White with the assault rifle being a bad think, I'm probably as guilty as other audience members of finding that a badass scene...
    Better known as DutchBondFan on YouTube. My 007 movie reviews: Recapping 007
    YouTube channel Support my channel on Patreon Twitter Facebook fanpage
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    And followed by the classic Words -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,699MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    I think they had the right idea in the Goldeneye: 007 and 006 sneak into the secret factory armed with suppressed pistols. But when the alarm goes off they grab the first assault rifles they can get their hands on. Bond is a secret agent and as a rule he should carry a consealed sidearm, but it looks silly if he is in the middle of a huge gunfight and just run past much more powerful weapons just carrying his PPK. At the same time time this type of scenes should be used sparingly. In the finale of TND it gets too much and the constant spraying of bullets gets repetetive.
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent

    Didn't Lazenby use one too in the raid of Pizz Gloria in OHMSS?

    At the climax. Unlike Brosnan era, big guns were a last resort and good old fashioned spying is the first priority. And Lazenby also doesn't glorify big guns in the same way that Craig does.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    Sorry for too many list threads. I want to get into some discussion. I think the trend of the recent Bond films has allowed assault weapons to be seen as regular. The idea of Connery using an assault weapon would feel out of place. Moore condemned AVTAK for the mass shooting scene. This all seems to cater to a younger generation of kids who are desensitized to violence and have a desire for catharsis.

    But I don't think James Bond should be in the business of assault weapons. He's a spy. He uses his wits - not big weapons.

    This started, I believe, in Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a bullet-fest. The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool. Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

    I'm not in anyway advocating censorship or saying that Eon is responsible for school shootings, but I think it takes a bit of strength to go against the modern trend of more stimulation and more saturation.

    Good observations there, but I think the heavy use (by Bond) of assault weapons in the Bond films actually started with GoldenEye (1995).
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    It never bothered me, in the end of TNDs he needs all the firepower he can get to win the fight, he didn't board the ship planning to get into a huge shootout, its pretty much the same any other time, he doesn't bring it with him, he just picks it up.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Bond uses Stealth until his Presence is felt, then he needs to use Automatic Weapons . For Example, TSWLM, TND and GE.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • M.M. UKPosts: 22MI6 Agent
    I think "the modern" Bond is right to use other wespons than just a pistol, it's just more realistic. After all he's only one man against many and need's every advantage he can get.
    I always thought M was a randomly assigned initial, i had no idea it stood for.....
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    http://www.hi-wallpapers.com/uploads/image/201309/24/1380013940.jpg

    Honestly, I think in 10 years from now, we're going to view THIS^ as some silly little phase. My primal instincts and cultural conditioning do tell me that this is cool, but in time, common sense will tell us that turning James Bond into some Columbine-shooter-fantasy was a lame idea. It'll probably be subject to ridicule much like the Tarzan scene in Octopussy and the parasailing in Die Another Day. Except, with the embarrassment that Eon was actually serious about making Bond like this.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Maybe to go against the grain, but I think Craig in a nice suit carrying an
    Assault rifle, looks very cool. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    By what standards? The ones we set. I think we've been programmed by media outlets over the past 30 years in glorifying violence. I agree, there's a visceral side of me that thinks that picture is sexy. But it's just a phase of our culture we're going to pass.

    That picture would've looked out of place in 1970. And it'll probably look out of place in 10+ years from now.
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 977MI6 Agent

    That picture would've looked out of place in 1970. And it'll probably look out of place in 10+ years from now.

    Not really, suits and big guns have been cool since the James Cagney days.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
    By what standards? The ones we set. I think we've been programmed by media outlets over the past 30 years in glorifying violence. I agree, there's a visceral side of me that thinks that picture is sexy. But it's just a phase of our culture we're going to pass.

    That picture would've looked out of place in 1970. And it'll probably look out of place in 10+ years from now.

    I doubt it. It's a well shot iconic picture. It wouldn't have worked as well with a pistol would it. That UMP is an integral part of the image as it was well utilised at the end of Casino Royale. That scene was a statement that BOND IS BACK, right from the unexpected shot that drops White, the music buuilding up to the slow walk, the shot of the boots, the serious suit, the serious armoury 'the name's Bond, James Bond'. It will always be well received. It was a great scene and the UMP was utilised perfectly.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    There was no other perfect Way to end CR -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • mikekilo725mikekilo725 Posts: 75MI6 Agent
    Would it help to point out that the UMP used at the end of the CR is not, technically, an assault rifle. It is a sub-machine gun, which is chambered in 9mm and only is that length as it has a supressor affixed, which you see removed in the beginning of QoS. Now the HK 416 he uses in Skyfall would be an assault rifle. Now on the OP topic, yes Bond is a spy and should remain discreet until the time comes not to and then use whatever he can at his disposal to win, as he would have been trained to do in the SAS. Now does that mean using the UMP in CR was needed? Technically you could argue it was, as the UMP would cause the knee shot damage without killing the subject outright and allowing time for questioning, that say a shot with a 5.56 or 7.62 would have done, but provides the capability to fight his way out of it if White had reinforcements, etc...just my 0.02
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    In a nutshell bond should be a covert clandestine operator, using wit and cunning to outfox his opponents.

    If he simply shoots his way out if every situation we'll just end up with Rambo.

    Hot-Shots-2-charlie-sheen-29901707-1500-2281.jpg
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Classic :)) {[]

    But seriously, Bond has to use Automatics if the Need arises.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Kent007Kent007 Posts: 338MI6 Agent
    I haven't got a problem with Bond using an assault weapon now and again. The Walther is his weapon of choice but that's limited I guess, sometimes a need arises for him to use an assault weapon!

    Also, Bond doesn't do many things which are classic spy traits haha He tells everybody his name etc. So though using a handgun only might be a "spy thing" to do, it doesn't mean much in the franchise.
    "You are about to wake when you dream that you are dreaming"
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    Ian Fleming said that the public viewed a spy like Bond as being engaged in a romantic "one man job" - "One man against a whole police force or an army." As such, automatic weapons are a necessary component to such a fight are they not? And let's not forget that Bond uses a Bofors gun at the end of DAF to shoot down Jack Spang's helicopter and a bazooka that only slightly damages Goldfinger's escaping train from Fort Knox in GF. So the literary Bond does indeed have some form here too. Perhaps it could even be said that this was where the seeds for Brosnan's Robo- or Terminator-Bond were born (see GF Russian Military Archives scenes, TND PTS, TND Stealth Boat climactic battle scenes, DAD PTS).
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    edited April 2015
    Ian Fleming said that the public viewed a spy like Bond as being engaged in a romantic "one man job" - "One man against a whole police force or an army." As such, automatic weapons are a necessary component are they not? And let's not forget that Bond uses a Bofors gun at the end of DAF to shoot down Jack Spang's helicopter and a bazooka that only slightly damages Goldfinger's escaping train from Fort Knox in GF. So the literary Bond has some form here too. Perhaps it could even be said that this was where the seeds for Brosnan's Robo or Terminator Bond were born. (See GF Russian Military Archives scenes, TND PTS, TND Stealth Boat climactic battle scenes, DAD PTS).

    Agreed -{

    Bond also uses Automatics in a couple of the Gardner Novels.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    -{ some very good points, SM.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    Thanks, AOS and TP. :) -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • PPK 7.65mmPPK 7.65mm Saratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,227MI6 Agent
    This started, I believe, in Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a bullet-fest.  The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool.  Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

    Didn't Lazenby use one too in the raid of Pizz Gloria in OHMSS? But yes, with the Brosnan films it began to become more regular, already in Goldeneye actually. I agree it takes away from the Bond image, but I never was THAT disturbed by it. At the end of TND Bond and Wai Lin raid the stealth boat, were normally in the older movies a large army would drop in to help Bond, here he's on it's own. While it's still highly unlikely a man would survive that, atleast with machine guns it becomes a LITTLE bit more believe in a scenario like that. But there are several other instances in the Brosnan movies where a machine gun is a bit to much and becomes his signature. I never really thought about Bond shooting Mr. White with the assault rifle being a bad think, I'm probably as guilty as other audience members of finding that a badass scene...

    Yes, Lazenby used a Sterling Submachine gun during the Piz Gloria battle, as did Draco's men. This same weapon was also by Roger Moore in The Spy Who Loved Me during the Liparus battle as well as many other classic James Bond movies, prior to weapons like the Uzi 9mm and the H&K MP5 series taking over in the world of automatic weapons.

    As for the topic itself, I am okay with 007 picking up a sub-machine gun or an assault rifle on occasion. A gun is a tool, and covert operators like James Bond need the right tool for the job. The Walther PPK/P99 are both fine handguns but for bigger jobs an automatic weapon makes sense. In the novel of The Spy Who Loved Me, Bond mentions he used a Thompson sub-machine during his Canadian assignment because he needed something bigger than the Walther PPK for the raid.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    PPK 7.65mm wrote:
    This started, I believe, in Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a bullet-fest.  The end of Casino Royale 06 had Bond shoot White with a big gun - not his Walther PPK - because it was cool.  Quantum of Solace advertised a Bond in sunglasses toting the same gun in the desert, in a cool way.

    Didn't Lazenby use one too in the raid of Pizz Gloria in OHMSS? But yes, with the Brosnan films it began to become more regular, already in Goldeneye actually. I agree it takes away from the Bond image, but I never was THAT disturbed by it. At the end of TND Bond and Wai Lin raid the stealth boat, were normally in the older movies a large army would drop in to help Bond, here he's on it's own. While it's still highly unlikely a man would survive that, atleast with machine guns it becomes a LITTLE bit more believe in a scenario like that. But there are several other instances in the Brosnan movies where a machine gun is a bit to much and becomes his signature. I never really thought about Bond shooting Mr. White with the assault rifle being a bad think, I'm probably as guilty as other audience members of finding that a badass scene...

    Yes, Lazenby used a Sterling Submachine gun during the Piz Gloria battle, as did Draco's men. This same weapon was also by Roger Moore in The Spy Who Loved Me during the Liparus battle as well as many other classic James Bond movies, prior to weapons like the Uzi 9mm and the H&K MP5 series taking over in the world of automatic weapons.

    As for the topic itself, I am okay with 007 picking up a sub-machine gun or an assault rifle on occasion. A gun is a tool, and covert operators like James Bond need the right tool for the job. The Walther PPK/P99 are both fine handguns but for bigger jobs an automatic weapon makes sense. In the novel of The Spy Who Loved Me, Bond mentions he used a Thompson sub-machine during his Canadian assignment because he needed something bigger than the Walther PPK for the raid.

    Good catch on TSWLM novel there. Very well said too on the right tools for the job at hand and of course James Bond also used a Thompson sub-machine gun in Kingsley Amis' Colonel Sun (1968) which Amis was very familiar with given his military role in WWII.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
    Not to mention the Winchester snipers rifle Fleming gives him in TLD, and the Savage 99F hunting rifle in FYEO.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Not to mention the Winchester snipers rifle Fleming gives him in TLD, and the Savage 99F hunting rifle in FYEO.

    Yes, those too. :) -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Sign In or Register to comment.