Why is TWINE just an eh film?

MilleniumForce · April 2015

I did this topic a while ago about TMWTGG, and now I feel like looking at TWINE. The only time I hear people talk about this one is when they are evaluating the Brosnan films. I've never known anyone with this at the bottom of their list, but then neither have I seen anyway with it at the top.

For me, it's just below the middle. It has some great elements, but it just seemed....not that great. I get where they were going, with Bond falling in love with the villain, and I think Elektra is the girl Bond cared most about besides Tracy and vesper. I think between the title sequence and the caviar factory scene, the film is fairly slow. It has all the great elements, but I don't think it had the impact it should have had.

O07 · April 2015

It's very disjointed. The mine sequence is painfully slow. Christmas Jones was terrible and the dialogue on the whole was jarring (as it was in DUD). I didn't care for Bond and Electra's relationship, nor Renard and Electra's. Zukovsky returns for some cheap comedy jaunt (he's so much more effective in GE) and we are introduced to R who is also here playing for gags.

Still, before the Bond #5 fans lynch me (again) I'll say that there's a few things that are good about it, Desmond Llewellyn gets a poignant farewell scene and Judi Dench is, as in all her films, a great M. It's a snow Bond and I always like Bond on the piste, the best action sequence in the film and maybe Brosnan's era, though weren't the enemies firing a little too close to their boss?

Unfortunately it pales in comparison with the character building angles that it attempts to both Casino Royale (Bond/Vesper is so much better and believable love affair than Bond/Electra) and Skyfall (M/Silva is a much better and more believable vengeance than M/Renard).

It's better than DUD (everything is better than DUD) It's very close to TND. It's kinda where the rot really set in on the Brosnan era... all that character stuff was going down a blind alley, I thought we'd get a real film after this one, boy was I ever wrong!

Jarvio · April 2015

It has at one point been at the bottom of my list.

It's just boring. The only good thing about it is Elektra King.

Matt S · April 2015

It's my favourite Brosnan Bond film since it feels the most like a classic Bond film to me and Brosnan really owns the part in it. These are the problems I have with it:

Denise Richards is very annoying and doesn't act smart like a physicist should. She acts like a 16-year-old! Lois Chiles played a much more mature and convincing scientist Bond girl.

The climax doesn't have the grandeur of Brosnan's other Bond films, but for what it is I think it was done very well.

Gassy Man · April 2015

It has a good PTS -- better than the rest of the film, which has little forward momentum and not much for the villains to do except be villanous in a few scenes.

broadshoulder · April 2015

When people big up the Q leaving scene....that's when you know the film is in trouble.

Of the 24 Bonds...I put it at 23..

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2015

It's not my favorite Bond Outing, but it does have some brilliant Scenes. The Submarine Climax for Instance -{

'She's waiting for you!'

Charmed & Dangerous · April 2015

It started with great promise but somehow got a bit lost. Gassy Man is right with the forward momentum. It's one if those films where you keep expecting it to start getting brilliant at any moment.... But never quite does. Sophie Marceau is tremendous and Pierce gives his usual solid performance, and there are some great individual moments such as the pipeline scenes. But too many of the action sequences look thrown together and inserted because 'right about now we should have another action sequence'. And the parahawks chase was just too pedestrian.

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2015

The Ski Scene was disappointing when compared to previous Snow Scenes

O07 · April 2015

I agree Alpha, though I still think they are better than the rest of the action sequences. The PTS and that boat on the Thames and through London gets the raves but I think it's a bit pooey. I don't think Apted directed may action films did he?

Matt S · April 2015

O07 wrote:

I agree Alpha, though I still think they are better than the rest of the action sequences. The PTS and that boat on the Thames and through London gets the raves but I think it's a bit pooey. I don't think Apted directed may action films did he?

He didn't really, though the action-like scenes in the film Enigma, which he made right after TWINE were well done. The non-action scenes in TWINE were some of the best of Brosnan's, like the scenes with Bond and Elektra. I think he did the best of all the directors at getting a great performance out of Brosnan. I think he seems most human in this film and less like a shooting machine. I don't recall any scenes where he picks up a machine gun, which was all too much of GE and TND.

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2015

Bonds Killing of Elektra is one of Brosnan's best Scenes during his Tenure -{

MilleniumForce · April 2015

Matt S wrote:

O07 wrote:

I agree Alpha, though I still think they are better than the rest of the action sequences. The PTS and that boat on the Thames and through London gets the raves but I think it's a bit pooey. I don't think Apted directed may action films did he?

He didn't really, though the action-like scenes in the film Enigma, which he made right after TWINE were well done. The non-action scenes in TWINE were some of the best of Brosnan's, like the scenes with Bond and Elektra. I think he did the best of all the directors at getting a great performance out of Brosnan. I think he seems most human in this film and less like a shooting machine. I don't recall any scenes where he picks up a machine gun, which was all too much of GE and TND.

TWINE is good at showing a human side of Bond. Like, him having a broken arm shows he's not a superhuman.

Matt S · April 2015

MilleniumForce wrote:

Matt S wrote:

O07 wrote:

I agree Alpha, though I still think they are better than the rest of the action sequences. The PTS and that boat on the Thames and through London gets the raves but I think it's a bit pooey. I don't think Apted directed may action films did he?

He didn't really, though the action-like scenes in the film Enigma, which he made right after TWINE were well done. The non-action scenes in TWINE were some of the best of Brosnan's, like the scenes with Bond and Elektra. I think he did the best of all the directors at getting a great performance out of Brosnan. I think he seems most human in this film and less like a shooting machine. I don't recall any scenes where he picks up a machine gun, which was all too much of GE and TND.

TWINE is good at showing a human side of Bond. Like, him having a broken arm shows he's not a superhuman.

I don't think the broken arm is such a good example of Bond not being superhuman since the arm pretty much heals immediately. But I like the film for showing a more human side of Bond, something I feel the Daniel Craig films have tried to do but not done successfully. I found Brosnan's more human Bond more believable in TWINE.

chrisisall · April 2015

Apted is a good director, but a Bond movie can be quite a large undertaking and I think he had his hands too full. A somewhat lacking script didn't help him, and jamming in Dench where she shouldn't be was a real problem. Still, an entertaining effort IMHO.

Absolutely_Cart · April 2015

One... last... screw...

chrisisall · April 2015

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

One... last... screw...

I actually loved that line, AND Brosnan's delivery of it. -{

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2015

With the classic Brosnan Pain Face

)

chrisisall · April 2015

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

With the classic Brosnan Pain Face )

I wouldn't have it any other way. -{

Revolver66 · April 2015

I just finished watching this one again! Even though I place it at second last in my overall Bond ranking I still think it has some top moments

As Alpha said, Bond's killing of Elektra is one of Brosnan's best moments, and actually I think it's his best performance as Bond overall. Sophie Marceau is great, and there are some great shots. Bond using the chains in the bunker as a makeshift flying fox with the explosives going off behind him is a great Bond moment

)

Revolver66 · April 2015

Although the very last line of the film...man...

Thunderpussy · April 2015

{[] The mark of a fan, is to constantly watch the films you don't love as
Much as others.

to try and see what you're missing.

I've done it
Myself a few times. -{

AlphaOmegaSin · April 2015

Me too -{

Blackleiter · April 2015

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

It started with great promise but somehow got a bit lost. Gassy Man is right with the forward momentum. It's one if those films where you keep expecting it to start getting brilliant at any moment.... But never quite does. Sophie Marceau is tremendous and Pierce gives his usual solid performance, and there are some great individual moments such as the pipeline scenes. But too many of the action sequences look thrown together and inserted because 'right about now we should have another action sequence'. And the parahawks chase was just too pedestrian.

I agree with this assessment, but still I rank TWINE higher than TND and DAD. The PTS, the film's attempts at a deeper, more substantive narrative, the presence of the exquisite Sophie Marceau, and Pierce's performance all elevate this film for me.

Absolutely_Cart · April 2015

Barbel listed this one as his #1 favorite Bond. Would be interested in hearing from him about it.

walther p99 · April 2015

TWINE has a really good story, so much so that SF borrowed a lot from it, but the problem with TWINE as others have noted is that it never really reaches its full potential.

Barbel · April 2015

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Barbel listed this one as his #1 favorite Bond. Would be interested in hearing from him about it.

Well, I'd say that this film features Brosnan's finest performance as Bond hands down. For example, his glare straight to camera during the PTS and much later his execution of Elektra with the line "I never miss"- pure Bond, and both carried off impeccably. Similarly, his relationship with M is never so clearly defined as here- he questions her motives while never losing his respect for her.

Sophie Marceau is the strongest leading lady in any of the Brosnan films, with the honourable exception of DJD, of course, helped by a more layered part than the others. Of course, I do accept the argument that this particular competition isn't difficult but that doesn't reflect on Mme Marceau.

David Arnold shines here, particularly with the softer pieces ("Only Myself To Blame" carries a beautiful melody heard throughout the film in various guises such as "Casino" and "Elektra's Theme") and the main title song (which memorably uses an augmented fourth and is complemented by Don Black's carefully-worked out lyric).

Robbie Coltrane's Zukovsky is here much more of the Sydney Greenstreet character that was intended than in GE and it's a pity that he hasn't returned... so far (I live in hope).

The storyline is not typical Bond but IMO is Flemingesque (Bond genuinely falls for Elektra, which is more than can be said for most of her peers), intriguing, and has some depth (see http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/44307/subtext-and-themes/page/2/). The use of M is more involved than anywhere else until SF, which owes this film a debt in more than one way (briefly- in TWINE Bond and Elektra metaphorically represent her son and daughter while in SF Bond and Silva represent her sons. The MI6 building (her "castle") is assaulted in both stories, and in each her judgement and decisions are questioned).

It isn't a "light" Bond film though it does have some classic lines ("Can't you just say 'hello' like a normal person?") and it gives Desmond Llewelyn's Q a graceful, dignified farewell.

It isn't perfect- the pacing is a problem, it could flow better, and the Christmas Jones character is regrettable- but it carries an air of sincerity and "feels like" a James Bond film (I know, that's difficult to define).

As is well known here, I am not a listmaker but I would definitely rate this as my No.1 favourite from the latter Bond movies.

chrisisall · April 2015

Barbel wrote:

As is well known here, I am not a listmaker but I would definitely rate this as my No.1 favourite from the latter Bond movies.

The 'latter' films? As in 'Post Dalton'? ?:)
Personally, I love TWINE, and I'm one of the very few who fully appreciate Denise in it. In fact, there really isn't much I don't love about this film, aside from some silly physics issues I have with Q's boat navigating on dry land.
Funny thing is, when it came out I didn't much care for it. More recently when I became the mega-Dalton fan that I am today I saw TWINE in a whole new light. It's Brosnan's darkest Bond. -{

Absolutely_Cart · April 2015

Thanks for the quality explanation Barbel

Barbel · April 2015

chrisisall wrote:

The 'latter' films? As in 'Post Dalton'? ?:)

Why is TWINE just an eh film?

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