Top 5 Reasons why TND outranks GE

FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
edited October 2015 in The James Bond Films
1. Much better pre-title sequence.

IMO the most exciting one in the series along with Octopussy. Plus, there are no cringeworthy moments like Brosnan hanging updown in a bathroom stall or hilariously freefalling off a cliff. Don't get me wrong, the GE pre-titles could have been great if they removed the above two items.

2. Bond allowed to be Bond and not lectured by every character.

Let Bond decide how much pumping is necessary. Do not call him a misogynist dinosaur, or any number of other self-aware critiques of the Bond character throughout Goldeneye.

3. Bond actually uses his gadget laden car.

What's up with that blue BMW in Goldeneye that barely even got driven? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of his 4-door sedan in TND, but at least he used it to its full capabilities.

4. Better hair-cut.

Lookin' sharp 007!

5. Awesome end credits song.

Goldeneye ends with the lamest, most boring song possible. Did we just watch a Bond movie?
Also, what's with all the Marines on stand by? That was sure a weird ending!
My current 10 favorite:

1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
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Comments

  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Interesting arguments Firemass. I doubt many will agree with you, but we'll see what happens.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    You KNOW I agree with all this already, FM! {[]
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Despite being another bad Bond film, TND is more enjoyable to watch than GE.
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Are there good and bad Bond films?
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    ;) not in my world ! They're all good. :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    If my flat was on fire....the only Brosnan I would go in and rescue is TND..

    DAD can be consigned to the flames....
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    I agree with all of this!
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    GE was an experiment that turned out mostly successful.
    TWINE was an experiment of going dark whilst retaining lightness, and it was kind of successful.
    DAD was... well, shall we say, not cool in every area.

    TND was the only truly perfect Brosnan Bond.
    By the numbers you say? How about I play a little number on your head?
    :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,052Chief of Staff
    :)
    I like this thread! I'd add that TND's score (not just the end credits song) wipes GE's out.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    Firemass wrote:
    1. Much better pre-title sequence.

    IMO the most exciting one in the series along with Octopussy. Plus, there are no cringeworthy moments like Brosnan hanging updown in a bathroom stall or hilariously freefalling off a cliff. Don't get me wrong, the GE pre-titles could have been great if they removed the above two items.

    2. Bond allowed to be Bond and not lectured by every character.

    Let Bond decide how much pumping is necessary. Do not call him a misogynist dinosaur, or any number of other self-aware critiques of the Bond character throughout Goldeneye.

    3. Bond actually uses his gadget laden car.

    What's up with that blue BMW in Goldeneye that barely even got driven? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of his 4-door sedan in TND, but at least he used it to its full capabilities.

    4. Better hair-cut.

    Lookin' sharp 007!

    5. Awesome end credits song.

    Goldeneye ends with the lamest, most boring song possible. Did we just watch a Bond movie?
    Also, what's with all the Marines on stand by? That was sure a weird ending!
    Excellent points -- I would add that the production values overall are better, the soundtrack overall is better, the film uses the traditional elements better, Brosnan's wardrobe is better, and the film follows through on its premise better (Goldeneye, for all the promises of one double-O against another doesn't really do much in this regard).

    Is Tomorrow Never Dies a great Bond film? No. Like all of Brosnan's films, it gets some details right and others wrong. Teri Hatcher is all but awful as Paris, a character that also gets little development. Jonathan Pryce, who can play creepy villains, comes across more often instead as twerpy, and Ricky Jay is given little to do. The Dr. Kaufman character is unfortunately oddly campy, both as a character and because of Vicent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    :)
    I like this thread! I'd add that TND's score (not just the end credits song) wipes GE's out.
    Oh, that's a given. After GE's 'new direction' for Bond music, Arnold's TND score had me literally cheering ("Chris! Keep it DOWN!!). :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    ;) not in my world ! They're all good. :D

    For example, maybe CR is one of the best made Bond films, but it probably wouldn't make my Top 10. Might even lie outside my Top 15.

    So yeah, how well-made a Bond film is and how much one likes it are two completely different things as far as I'm concerned.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,052Chief of Staff
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    how well-made a Bond film is and how much one likes it are two completely different things as far as I'm concerned.
    Totally. SF is incredibly well made, for instance, but I like TMWTGG a whole lot more.
    The thing is, given the tone Spottiswoode set for TND, it's a basically perfect Bond movie, even better than TSWLM IMO. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!

    "I am just a professional doing a job!"

    "Me too." *shoots him*
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    1. Much better pre-title sequence.

    IMO the most exciting one in the series along with Octopussy. Plus, there are no cringeworthy moments like Brosnan hanging updown in a bathroom stall or hilariously freefalling off a cliff. Don't get me wrong, the GE pre-titles could have been great if they removed the above two items.

    2. Bond allowed to be Bond and not lectured by every character.

    Let Bond decide how much pumping is necessary. Do not call him a misogynist dinosaur, or any number of other self-aware critiques of the Bond character throughout Goldeneye.

    3. Bond actually uses his gadget laden car.

    What's up with that blue BMW in Goldeneye that barely even got driven? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of his 4-door sedan in TND, but at least he used it to its full capabilities.

    4. Better hair-cut.

    Lookin' sharp 007!

    5. Awesome end credits song.

    Goldeneye ends with the lamest, most boring song possible. Did we just watch a Bond movie?
    Also, what's with all the Marines on stand by? That was sure a weird ending!

    Even though I agree with all your points, I still think GE is superior to TND.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    Barbel wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!
    When he asked "Heff you cald zee audo klub?" it made me strangely uncomfortable, as if he was clueless to the humanity he so sorely lacked. He played that so well... I know it was meant to be able to be funny for some, but to me it was just eerie.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    Firemass wrote:
    1. Much better pre-title sequence.

    IMO the most exciting one in the series along with Octopussy. Plus, there are no cringeworthy moments like Brosnan hanging updown in a bathroom stall or hilariously freefalling off a cliff. Don't get me wrong, the GE pre-titles could have been great if they removed the above two items.

    2. Bond allowed to be Bond and not lectured by every character.

    Let Bond decide how much pumping is necessary. Do not call him a misogynist dinosaur, or any number of other self-aware critiques of the Bond character throughout Goldeneye.

    3. Bond actually uses his gadget laden car.

    What's up with that blue BMW in Goldeneye that barely even got driven? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of his 4-door sedan in TND, but at least he used it to its full capabilities.

    4. Better hair-cut.

    Lookin' sharp 007!

    5. Awesome end credits song.

    Goldeneye ends with the lamest, most boring song possible. Did we just watch a Bond movie?
    Also, what's with all the Marines on stand by? That was sure a weird ending!

    Even though I agree with all your points, I still think GE is superior to TND.

    Virgil, what's your ranking of the Brosnan 007 movies (just for knowledge's sake)?
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!
    Oh, Barbel, you know I respect your opinion, but that character was just tonally all wrong. The idea of a psychotic academic was fine, but they played it like Sergeant Schultz.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia, PAPosts: 753MI6 Agent
    You make great points FM though. I would counterpoint with the following:

    1.) GoldenEye has a better supporting cast. I love Michelle Yeoh & Vincent Schiavelli and I even like the oft-criticized Jonathan Pryce and Terri Hatcher. However, they don't match-up to Sean Bean, Famke Janssen, Robbie Coltrane, Alan Cumming, and Gottfried John. I thought the Mi6 crew was stronger here as well, I prefer Q/Moneypenny/M in GE and prefer Tanner to Charles Robinson, though I like both.

    2.) Better finale. The stealth boat is a bit of a yawner for me. It blends too much in my mind with the nuclear sub from TWINE. GE has more exotic locational feel and the film gets more out of it.

    3.) Title sequence and title song. While I whole-heartedly agree that TND crushes on the end credit song, the opening themes work much better for me.

    4.) Casino scene!!! I love Carver's HQ, but I'm a sucker for a casino scene.

    5.) Aston Martin! (Equipped with Bollinger too :)) Sure the car would get destroyed in any type of race against a Ferrari 355, but it's an Aston!


    FM, you also have one of the most unique Top 10's ever. Even more different than mine. Love it! -{
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!
    When he asked "Heff you cald zee audo klub?" it made me strangely uncomfortable, as if he was clueless to the humanity he so sorely lacked. He played that so well... I know it was meant to be able to be funny for some, but to me it was just eerie.
    It made me think of comedy Nazis saying things like " I know nothink!" and "Hogaaaaaannnnn. Hmphh!!" I thought I was watching an episode of the 1960s Batman.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    It made me think of comedy Nazis saying things like " I know nothink!" and "Hogaaaaaannnnn. Hmphh!!" I thought I was watching an episode of the 1960s Batman.
    Differn't strokes, my man. :)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    It made me think of comedy Nazis saying things like " I know nothink!" and "Hogaaaaaannnnn. Hmphh!!" I thought I was watching an episode of the 1960s Batman.
    Differn't strokes, my man. :)
    It's true, and I can respect that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    It's true, and I can respect that.
    If it's any consolation, IMO The Prisoner beats Bond in most every quarter except sheer spectacle.
    But... I've watched TND 20X or more, and The Prisoner series only 4X (since it came on DVD).
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,052Chief of Staff
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    The Dr. Kaufman character is absurdly campy, both as a character and because of Vincent Schiavelli's performance, better suited for an episode of Hogan's Heroes ("Heff you cald zee audo klub?") than this movie, ruining what could have been a better scene.

    I thought it was an excellent scene, one of the best in the movie!
    Oh, Barbel, you know I respect your opinion, but that character was just tonally all wrong. The idea of a psychotic academic was fine, but they played it like Sergeant Schultz.

    As Chris says, different strokes!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    ahem.....

    "bloke on the rear seat" ;%
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,052Chief of Staff
    Well, I'm sure his accent will be impeccable anyway....
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    ahem.....

    "bloke on the rear seat" ;%
    Yeah, that's right -- and very cool, Higgins!
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    It's true, and I can respect that.
    If it's any consolation, IMO The Prisoner beats Bond in most every quarter except sheer spectacle.
    But... I've watched TND 20X or more, and The Prisoner series only 4X (since it came on DVD).
    The original? It is excellent!
  • DutchfingerDutchfinger Holland With LovePosts: 1,240MI6 Agent
    OP makes five valid points I would agree all on. But I would still say GE easily outranks TND despite that. Main reason for me is a GE has a much more original plot and much more intresting characters. 15 minutes into TND and you would have already figured out the entire plot, which is a recycled version of TSWLM and YOLT. Luckily the action in it is great, but I defenitely don't watch it because the story is very engaging or real. Also, GE has Xenia Onatopp, which should be a valid reason on it's own ! :D
    Better known as DutchBondFan on YouTube. My 007 movie reviews: Recapping 007
    YouTube channel Support my channel on Patreon Twitter Facebook fanpage
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