Was Roger Moore a rubbish Bond?

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  • Napoleon Han SoloNapoleon Han Solo Posts: 78MI6 Agent
    To answer Cosmo's question back there, yes, I really like Roger Moore. TSWLM and FYEO are both A-list Bonds, and many of the others are solid Bond films. I like Moore's humour. It was a different time and Moore suited it. Yes, the character had evolved beyond Fleming, but the same happens to many creations who are then brought back. For instance, I can enjoy many of the old Tarzan movies despite how markedly different the character is than the one written by Edgar Rice Burroughs. I am glad that Greystoke brought Tarzan back to basics like CR did with Bond, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a Johnny Weismuller classic.
  • SteedSteed Posts: 134MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Steed wrote:
    Yeah, I agree. I'm sorry to say I always laugh at Roger's 'inflated opinion of himself' line, but it truly is a stupid demise- this is typical of the Guy Hamilton Bond films of the 70s, with very poor death scenes for villains.
    DAF didn't really have a death scene for the villains. ;) (At least not for Blofeld.)

    I'm thinking of Wint and Kidd's ludicrous demise. Despite its undoubted daftness, I do like DAF a lot...;%
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,057MI6 Agent
    Steed wrote:
    I'm thinking of Wint and Kidd's ludicrous demise. Despite its undoubted daftness, I do like DAF a lot...;%
    If Wint hadn't screamed like that, would you still think it was ludicrous?
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • DukeDuke Posts: 7MI6 Agent
    No He wasn't rubblish. James Bond films go with times and in the 1970s and 1980s, in general movies were becoming slapstick and over the top with a touch of being ridiculous. Even on TV (remember The A-Team, Starsky & Hutch etc etc?) they were just fantasy tv shows in which they were serious but lighthearted and ridiculous. Pure entertainment. That's why Roger Moore was perfect for that time. He represented that and Cubby n Co did very well with it in Hollywood during the time.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,057MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    Duke wrote:
    No He wasn't rubblish. James Bond films go with times and in the 1970s and 1980s, in general movies were becoming slapstick and over the top with a touch of being ridiculous. Even on TV (remember The A-Team, Starsky & Hutch etc etc?) they were just fantasy tv shows in which they were serious but lighthearted and ridiculous. Pure entertainment. That's why Roger Moore was perfect for that time. He represented that and Cubby n Co did very well with it in Hollywood during the time.
    Duke, welcome to the best Bond site on the net. {[] I have to say that I don't agree. While some of the Moore films were OTT at times, IMO several of them (LALD, TSWLM, FYEO, OP) were among the greatest Bond films of all time, while TSWLM was IMO the fifth greatest Bond film and best ever non-Connery Bond film of all time.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    Very good post, Fish. Indeed, there's far more to Roger's Bond than just tongue-in-cheek humour. He could be quite the b*****d at times.
  • SteedSteed Posts: 134MI6 Agent
    Also, remember another example of the Moore Bond being a manipulative cad in LALD where after getting his evil way with Rosie Carver, he then pulls a gun on her as she utters 'you wouldn't...not after what we just done' and he replies 'well I certainly wouldn't have done it before'! That's as manipulative, perhaps even more so, as anything else in the series before it.
  • Napoleon Han SoloNapoleon Han Solo Posts: 78MI6 Agent
    I quite agree with you guys. Moore always projected the image of a man who could be watching another man die horribly and worrying more about how his own hair looked. And that was very dangerous and interesting.
  • MAHOMAHO Posts: 95MI6 Agent
    I seem to be among the few that aren't bothered (at all) by Moore's age in OP and AVTAK.

    He started young(ish) and aged while playing Bond. That gives his Bond a certain, um, continuity. His advanced age in AVTAK actually makes sense, esp. when watching his movies in order of release.

    Now, if he had debuted at the age of 57... that would have been an entirely different story.

    ---
    jfm
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,057MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    I very much agree with those who believe that Moore could extremely ruthless and could be a real b****d at times. Obviously, people have mentioned the examples in LALD, but there is also the bitch-slap in TMWTGG, and the killing of Sandor in TSWLM, which actually shocks me more than the killing of Dent. Anytime that people brings up cold-blooded murder in the context of Bond, I always think of that scene.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Napoleon Han SoloNapoleon Han Solo Posts: 78MI6 Agent
    Let me also say I have no problem with Moore's age by AVTAK. Assuming Bond survived to be 57 I doubt he would be helming a desk at that point. He would wait until he was absolutely feeble before retiring. In my mind Moore never got to that point. And too much is made of youthfulness these days. There is something to be said for experience. Bond would be extremely honed by this time, possibly at the peak of his abilities really. I personally think a dangerous man in his mid fifties is tougher than a dangerous man in his mid twenties. Having survived that long in a dangerous business, he would be a forced to be reckoned with.

    In fact, back when I was around seventeen I saw a fight between a 19 year old male and a man who was nearly sixty. The older man demolished the younger. Simply put he had more scrapping experience.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,854Quartermasters
    I think Moore was just swell in AVTAK.
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  • SteedSteed Posts: 134MI6 Agent
    What I find odd with AVTAK is that Roger looked younger to me in a documentary that was done some 2 years later (!) to celebrate the Bond films and Timothy Dalton's casting- it's on The Living Daylights extra disc. Perhaps it's just me though...:)) And Roger's performance was fine in AVTAK throughout.
  • ShawnShawn Posts: 21MI6 Agent
    He wasn't a rubbish James Bond, he was just a very smug James Bond. :))
  • AxelFoleyAxelFoley Posts: 14MI6 Agent
    Rubbish?? RUBBISH?? You Sir should be tied down to a table and get to taste the lazer of Goldfinger for even thinking something of the sort! {:)

    Moore is an absolutely wonderful Bond! He is tough, he is cool, he is funny, he is handsome, he is smooth, he is DEADLY! Everything you could be looking for in Bond. He is, IMO, a close second to Sean Connery, and he always will be. Roger Moore rules suckas!! {[]
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    AxelFoley wrote:
    Rubbish?? RUBBISH?? You Sir should be tied down to a table and get to taste the lazer of Goldfinger for even thinking something of the sort! {:)

    Moore is an absolutely wonderful Bond! He is tough, he is cool, he is funny, he is handsome, he is smooth, he is DEADLY! Everything you could be looking for in Bond. He is, IMO, a close second to Sean Connery, and he always will be. Roger Moore rules suckas!! {[]

    Welcome to AJB, Axel. :)

    You were going so well until you mentioned that Roger Moore was a close second to Sean Connery. :D

    I am not a fan of Connery's performances in YOLT & NSNA. I tend to believe he adjusted his performance in DAF to suit the lighter tone of the film and he's pretty good overall, though he could have lost some weight. As for DN, FRWL, GF & TB. Connery looks the part, acts the part, and is pretty much outstanding. Overall, he is my favourite Bond after Roger.
  • Tee HeeTee Hee CBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
    AxelFoley wrote:
    Rubbish?? RUBBISH?? You Sir should be tied down to a table and get to taste the lazer of Goldfinger for even thinking something of the sort! {:)

    Moore is an absolutely wonderful Bond! He is tough, he is cool, he is funny, he is handsome, he is smooth, he is DEADLY! Everything you could be looking for in Bond. He is, IMO, a close second to Sean Connery, and he always will be. Roger Moore rules suckas!! {[]

    Welcome to AJB, Axel. :)

    You were going so well until you mentioned that Roger Moore was a close second to Sean Connery. :D

    Welcome aboard Axel, I can only assume that we will get along slendidly. :)

    However, I'll have to agree will my friend MNL. Connery is #2. :D

    I think we have another player for our team MNL! {[]
    "My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

    -Roger Moore
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    Tee Hee wrote:
    However, I'll have to agree will my friend MNL. Connery is #2. :D

    I think we have another player for our team MNL! {[]

    Indeed, Sean Connery is #2. It was very nice of him to occupy the seat and keep it warm while Roger was busy with The Saint and The Persuaders. :D

    As for our team. The Moore the merrier, I say. It has to be said, our team is looking rather short of players at the moment.
  • AxelFoleyAxelFoley Posts: 14MI6 Agent
    Thanks a lot for the welcoming guys {[]

    You can always count on me, fighting with you side by side for the honor of Sir Roger {:)

    But when it comes to Sir Sean, he will always be bumber 1 for me, but Roger is not far behind, mind you :) It's almost like Sophie's Choice :))

    Also, I am a HUGE fan of The Saint, also The Persuaders. So I'm a pretty big Moore fan B-)

    If you'll need any assistance, just give me a ring :007)
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,675MI6 Agent
    Moore always struck me as an actor who could act well when he put some effort into it, but most of the time he walked through his roles. His oo7 seems alot like his role in "The Saint" and "The Persuaders". I think Moore always yearned to be a comic, he's better when serious.

    I'll put in my 2 cents on Connery. He introduced Bond, but I think he was born to be a film star even if oo7 had not come his way. He has a screen presence that put him in the class of Clark Gable and John Wayne, he was made for the screen.

    I think the only true "actors" who have played Bond were Dalton and Craig.
  • TOOTSTOOTS Posts: 114MI6 Agent
    I think the Bond we know and love now certainly had his DNA altered during the Roger tenure. Connery copied him in NSNA and it is arguable the Bond of the Gardner and Benson novels is based on the filmBond that Roger helped shape.

    The best analysis of Roger's Bond I have ever read is at page 143 - 147 of Roger Moore A Biography by Roy Moseley with superb Bond scholars Philip & Martin Masheter (the twins who used to run 58 Dean St Records which begat the now, alas, defunct Rare Discs in London). In it, they suggest that the Saint was actually a much more ruthless character than Bond and that Roger's interpretation of Bond was actually a reaction to his work on the Saint. I cannot paraphrase it and do it justice. Suffice to say, that Roger made active acting choices to differentiate characters subtly (a suggestion Sir Roger would probably refute).

    The success of Bond is rarely down to just the actor. The hugely collaborative art of film-making means that the merit of the actor's work on screen is based on screenplay, direction, photography, the other actors, music and editing - the whole gamut of creative input. However, off screen, the person stands alone and in this respect Roger was treasure to Bond and the series. Such good grace, such skilled parrying, such utter professionalism. There has been no better ambassador for the series - a role he continues to this day, 3 Bonds on from him.

    I don't believe that one's favourite Bond is the first that one sees. Roger is not mine yet it was because of his films that I became a Bond fan. I was on holiday in Carnarveon, North Wales in August 1977. A trip to the cinema (it was a rainy day) resulted in me seeing The Spy Who Loved Me. From the ski-chase to the Lotus to the Liparus to the Pyramids, I was hooked. From women with smoke-jet cigarettes to the underwater emergence of Atlantis, I was enthralled. Jaws' first appearance, cloaked in shadow, was genuinely terrifying. And, to cap it all, Roger Moore as James Bond finally gave me a hero I could respond to; cool, daring, adventurous, funny, assured, sophisticated and, uniquely, British.

    The actor (for he is a vastly underestimated classically trained professional) has taken an awful lot of flak over the years but there are certain moments in Bond when no-one comes close to Roger Moore. My favourite performance from him is actually in a lot of people's least liked Bond films: MWGG.

    There are certain moments where, IMHO, he is better than anyone in the part:

    1) After the much vaunted slapping of Andrea (Moore flinches!), 007 tells her that he would inform Scaramanga of this meeting if she double-crosses him. The line about the bullets being very expensive is funny and cruel and the scene is played with a genteel sadism which Moore excels at.

    2) This quality is prevalent throughout Bond’s toying of Lazar ("or forever hold your piece!" - again funny, yet cruel)

    3) Bond’s luncheon with Scaramanga at the end. This last scene is particularly well-written and acted evoking genuine dramatic tension. In all these scenes, Moore is cold and professional and conveys the capability of his licence to kill.

    4) Throwing the canal-urchin off his boat is a consistent choice in performance - something that might not happen in these days of “protecting the star.”

    5) Releasing the Solex at the end is also gripping, again through Moore's performance - he's actually acting; desparate and concerned.

    Roger's then wife Luisa Mattioli said very astutely around the time he was leaving the role that he would only be appreciated after he had left. That is so true.

    But, from what I've read and know and have heard, Sir Roger is not really interested in being known as a good Bond or a good actor or a good comedian. It has been suggested that what he really cares about is being a good human being. And that he most certainly appears to be.

    Nobody Does It Better!
  • Blood_StoneBlood_Stone Posts: 183MI6 Agent
    edited March 2011
    Roger Moore is, was, and will be always be the worst James Bond. Granted, he may have been more suave and made more films, but let's face it, most of them were terrible.

    In one of the DVD featurettes, he b*tched about roughing up Maud Adam's character (I forgot which one) for information saying "My Bond wouldn't do that." so obviously, he didn't give a damn about what the character was supposed to be about.

    That's why I like For Your Eyes Only so much. Remember the scene where he ruthlessly kills the goon by kicking his car over the cliff? THAT WAS BOND! He finally got back that edge he was so badly missing from his character and I was hoping it would stay this way, but once we got Octop*ssy, it was just Moore crap. Did I mention at the end of the film, he dressed up as a clown? If anything, that fit him perfectly because he went back to being a joke.

    Overall, he was nothing more than the Adam West of the 007 franchise. It was like watching a parody of James Bond instead of actually being James Bond. So out of the actors, Moore was the best at being a funny wimp. James Bond 007? No way.
  • down2000down2000 Santa Monica, CAPosts: 75MI6 Agent
    No way was Roger Moore "rubbish". Personally, I say none of the Bonds were rubbish. All had their high points and low points. For Roger, he ruled over a period of great financial success for the films. If his 70s & 80s films flopped we may not have 007 today. Although some of the films were a bit campy, remember Roger could only work with waht he was given. Look at FYEO, I think his best outing. Give him a great story, take away camp and gadgets and you have a pretty strong Bond entry ( I could argue top 5, no doubt top 10)
  • mrbain007mrbain007 Posts: 393MI6 Agent
    Moore was a great Bond. He had charm, wit and sophistication and was always enjoyable to watch. He did have his weaknesses however, namely that he lacked the phyicality and was sometimes a little too flippant in his approach. That's why I rank him as 3rd behind Brosnan and Connery.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    NO, HE was a Great Bond -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,064MI6 Agent
    Watching LALD recently, I struggled with Moore as he seems quite painful and smug, as bad as Lazenby at times, though both were at their worst early on in the movie. Its the delivery of the lines; it struggles with the posh Brit fellow stuff, at least Connery made it sound like a bit of a Scotsman's send-up but Moore tries to make that side of it a joke in the Ian Carmichael sense.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    To be honest, Moore's not a great actor. Outside of Bond The Wild Geese and Seawolves are about his best efforts. I think he was a good Bond though - his portrayal belonged to the seventies and became great family entertainment.
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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    I think alot of people are now judging the 70's Movies from the perspective of 2011. This was the era of Smokey and the Bandit, etc. Can you imagine what a 70's audiance would of made of todays shaky camera work and break neck editing ( I'm talking about films in general not just Bond). Some people hate Moore, some people Hate Craig, Sadly Mel Gibson Hates everybody :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • mrbain007mrbain007 Posts: 393MI6 Agent
    I think alot of people are now judging the 70's Movies from the perspective of 2011. This was the era of Smokey and the Bandit, etc. Can you imagine what a 70's audiance would of made of todays shaky camera work and break neck editing ( I'm talking about films in general not just Bond). Some people hate Moore, some people Hate Craig, Sadly Mel Gibson Hates everybody :))

    Very well said TP. The 1970s were very different to 2011.
  • WadsyWadsy Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 401MI6 Agent
    I loved Roger Moore's Bond, whether he was making a campy performance or otherwise. I do strongly believe that FYEO was not only his strongest performance, but also my favorite Bond film in the series. He also did a magnificent job on TSWLM, and people may argue here, but I have a soft spot for his AVTAK performance. Old yes, but he was more serious there as well. His worst performance, would have to be The Man With The Golden Gun. It was all over the place, from too serious to too campy. Moore was lucky, he got some of the best films of the series in Spy, MR, FYEO and AVTAK in my opinion. OP is also very impressive. Dalton on the other hand got the rough stick, a superb film in TLD, but the awful LTK. What a shame.

    To sum up Moore's Bond, I like him serious and campy, and on TSWLM, we got both. FYEO was back to Ian Fleming's portrayal with a serious and harder edge, and Moore did an amazing job in that field, which is why FYEO is his best running, in my opinion. TLD would be the next time the producers would attempt a 'harder edge' Bond, with Timothy Dalton. Dalton does the best job of all six actors following the harder edge, but FYEO was still the superior film due to the plot, and other things.
    1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. TLD 4. FRWL 5. LTK 6. TSWLM 7. CR 8. OP 9. GF 10. DN 11. MR 12. SP 13. LALD 14. QOS 15. TB 16. SF 17. TMWTGG 18. GE 19. YOLT 20. AVTAK 21. TND 22. TWINE 23. DAF 24. DAD

    1. Dalton 2. Connery 3. Moore 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
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