CR's Biggest Surprise & Disappointment

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  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited February 2007
    :))

    Okay, I'll ask. How would you run, particularly if you'd just gotten up, after unwinding during a leisurely late-night meal with drinks---just an hour or so after being poisoned with digitalis? :o

    Forgive me, but when you resort to criticising how the actor takes a few hurried steps, from the hotel to his car, it just seems as if you're looking for nits to pick. Perhaps what you're trying to say, in a very subtle way, is that you didn't really care for Craig and CR B-)

    Just for the record: I thought his brief sprint, from the Hotel Splendide to his DBS, was spot-on :D
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    :))

    Okay, I'll ask. How would you run, particularly if you'd just gotten up, after unwinding during a leisurely late-night meal with drinks---just an hour or so after being poisoned with digitalis? :o

    Forgive me, but when you resort to criticising how the actor takes a few hurried steps, from the hotel to his car, it just seems as if you're looking for nits to pick. Perhaps what you're trying to say, in a very subtle way, is that you didn't really care for Craig and CR B-)

    Just for the record: I thought his brief sprint, from the Hotel Splendide to his DBS, was spot-on :D

    {[] Absolutely Loeff. The way his each foot stretched out ahead of him, one just microseconds after the other, before striking the asphalt left me emotionally drained.

    But it does raise a larger issue: Eon really needs to do a better job screening potential Bonds for their running style. Develop a questionnaire, perhaps. Or maybe create a select panel of Olympic sprinters to evaluate the candidates beforehand. Or hire only actors with extensive onscreen running experience. I'm thinking the cast of Chariots of Fire should be put on retainer immediately, if they're not too old.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Regarding the running, I don't have a problem with the way that Craig runs. I love the chase scene, and althouth I do have a problem with one part of it (a forward jump that the bomber made), I have never objected to Craig's running style. In fact, I don't think any of the Bonds are bad runners. Some are better than others, of course, but I never watch a Bond film and think to myself that the particuar Bond can't run. They are all convincing. -{


    Not at all- I love him dearly, but Roger is incapable of running! So much so that he used to ask the directors if it could be avoided that he was shown running onscreen! I think the only time he's ever seen running across a distance is in TMWTGG when running from the karate school- it's hilarious! He just can't move his legs far enough apart and sort of minces in short steps. Bizarre!
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited February 2007
    I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and suggest that the age of the 'running, jumping' Bond didn't really begin, in earnest, until Dalton donned the tux for '87's TLD---and didn't really come into its own until Brozzer took over in '95's GE...

    Think about it: How much did we see Connery's Bond sprinting? To my current recollection, the closest we got is Lewis Gilbert's incredibly long shot of Bond, as seen from high above, racing across the rooftops at the harbour in YOLT, fending off outrageous numbers of on-foot pursuers, or perhaps his Cary Grant-in-NBNW-like ducking from the helicopter in FRWL...another (very brief) example is Connery dashing to intercept Rowan Atkinson in the final scene of NSNA...Connery's Bond was more geared to up-close and personal suaveness and/or brutality, for the most part, it seems to me...

    The whole 'running Bond' thing has been an evolution of style and presentation; Lazenby didn't have much need to sprint in OHMSS, except for running to prevent Tracy's dusk swim in the PTS---and, as properly indicated, Moore didn't run much at all, save for his desperate scramble for Hip's car (away from the karate school) in TMWTGG...

    The producers seemed intent to capitalize upon Dalton's relative youth (by 20+ years!!!), when compared to his predecessor, by having him dash after the jeep in the Gibraltar PTS of TLD, and then it was off to the races...Brozzer did more running and jumping than all of his predecessors combined---perhaps in GE alone :o In fact, I've always rather thought of Pierce as the 'running, jumping Bond' for that very reason; it wasn't until DAD that his sprints got (slightly) more modest; perhaps it was because he blew out his knee during the N. Korea PTS...

    And of course, Craigger---in CR's (post-PTS) opening sequence---takes the baton from Brozzer...and keeps running, through the Madagascar construction site..and after the tanker at the Miami airport...

    Perhaps one might argue that this is a rather obvious concession Eon has made in response to the growing competition in the action genre, in general...
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    Interesting discussion on the running and generally agree with what's been said, esp. Loeffes. Didn't Connery do a sprint in DN with Honey? Or am I just basing my memory on a still of the pair sprinting? Then there's that other running sequence in YOLT that led Bond to Tiger's underground headquarters, which seemed to have been meant to be urgent yet stylistically "cool" by how he jaunted more than sprinted; different values were indeed at play here.

    Anyway, yes, I think in our age of a more athletically conscious society, nothing less than full-blown sprinting done right will do, just as rippled abs on women have become the norm as the days of the sucked in, bare tummied bikini beauties have lapsed generations ago. With the earlier Bond actors (the 1st 3), I think the rendition of running was largely conditioned then by cinematic concepts of kinesthesia, the "art" of movement. There was more of a concern with the theatrical aspect of conveying something dramatically beyond the act itself, vs. the inherent dramatics of the actual act that has become more important today.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    Interesting discussion on the running and generally agree with what's been said, esp. Loeffes. Didn't Connery do a sprint in DN with Honey? Or am I just basing my memory on a still of the pair sprinting? Then there's that other running sequence in YOLT that led Bond to Tiger's underground headquarters, which seemed to have been meant to be urgent yet stylistically "cool" by how he jaunted more than sprinted; different values were indeed at play here.

    Anyway, yes, I think in our age of a more athletically conscious society, nothing less than full-blown sprinting done right will do, just as rippled abs on women have become the norm as the days of the sucked in, bare tummied bikini beauties have lapsed generations ago. With the earlier Bond actors (the 1st 3), I think the rendition of running was largely conditioned then by cinematic concepts of kinesthesia, the "art" of movement. There was more of a concern with the theatrical aspect of conveying something dramatically beyond the act itself, vs. the inherent dramatics of the actual act that has become more important today.

    In full agreement with you and Loeffelholz. In DN, Connery did do a sprint along the beach with Honey when they hear the gun boat coming. He also did a sprint in DAF after he had made his escape in the moon buggy and then rode one of those three wheeled "bikes". There was also the stumbling run in TB as he tried to get away from Fiona Volpe, Vargas & Co after being shot in the leg.
  • bluemanblueman PDXPosts: 1,667MI6 Agent
    Connery and Lazenby--even if they were just faking it for the movies, they still had a raw physicality that came though in spades.

    Moore--uh, not so much. Nuff said.

    Dalton and Brosnan--physical, but nothing special. Appropriate for their respective transition status, from the implied physicality (superado's kinethesia) of the earlier films to the more modern sensability of actually being able to do it. The rise of Schwarzenegger changed audiences' expectations significantly, IMO.

    Craig--throwback to that earlier raw physicality, turbo-style and very real. Weird that Bond moved away from this back in the 70s, I blame disco.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    Interesting discussion on the running and generally agree with what's been said, esp. Loeffes. Didn't Connery do a sprint in DN with Honey? Or am I just basing my memory on a still of the pair sprinting? Then there's that other running sequence in YOLT that led Bond to Tiger's underground headquarters, which seemed to have been meant to be urgent yet stylistically "cool" by how he jaunted more than sprinted; different values were indeed at play here.

    Anyway, yes, I think in our age of a more athletically conscious society, nothing less than full-blown sprinting done right will do, just as rippled abs on women have become the norm as the days of the sucked in, bare tummied bikini beauties have lapsed generations ago. With the earlier Bond actors (the 1st 3), I think the rendition of running was largely conditioned then by cinematic concepts of kinesthesia, the "art" of movement. There was more of a concern with the theatrical aspect of conveying something dramatically beyond the act itself, vs. the inherent dramatics of the actual act that has become more important today.

    In full agreement with you and Loeffelholz. In DN, Connery did do a sprint along the beach with Honey when they hear the gun boat coming. He also did a sprint in DAF after he had made his escape in the moon buggy and then rode one of those three wheeled "bikes". There was also the stumbling run in TB as he tried to get away from Fiona Volpe, Vargas & Co after being shot in the leg.

    True about the Connery sprint. But Supe makes an excellent observation about today's action heroes. They are much more physical in their scenes than they used to be. And ripped physically. So much so that when you see an older film with an action star, it's a little bit of a shock to see how flabby they look by comparison. The only couple I can think of that were really athletic in days gone by were Burt Lancaster and maybe Victor Mature. Lancaster is really the only one who would have fit in with today's action stars, physique-wise. I'm thinking of him in Apache and The Professionals. Both great movies, by the way.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited February 2007
    In DN, Connery did do a sprint along the beach with Honey when they hear the gun boat coming. He also did a sprint in DAF after he had made his escape in the moon buggy and then rode one of those three wheeled "bikes". There was also the stumbling run in TB as he tried to get away from Fiona Volpe, Vargas & Co after being shot in the leg.

    Thanks, MNL...I knew I had to be forgetting some... ;%

    And supes makes a good point about the different values at play cinematically/dramatically---it was a different sort of running; these days, a more aerobically-oriented audience might demand a more strenuous cardiovascular display :D A Bond for every era, indeed {[]

    EDIT: Very astute, HH...great minds and all that -{
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    blueman wrote:
    Connery and Lazenby--even if they were just faking it for the movies, they still had a raw physicality that came though in spades.

    Moore--uh, not so much. Nuff said.

    Dalton and Brosnan--physical, but nothing special. Appropriate for their respective transition status, from the implied physicality (superado's kinethesia) of the earlier films to the more modern sensability of actually being able to do it. The rise of Schwarzenegger changed audiences' expectations significantly, IMO.

    Craig--throwback to that earlier raw physicality, turbo-style and very real. Weird that Bond moved away from this back in the 70s, I blame disco.

    I just rewatched the running sequence in DN. Though I agree about Connery's physicality, there's insufficient footage that showcased no holds barred running. As for the others, I guess it boils down to the actors' personal physicality, which includes aesthetic qualities. with Olympic class sprinters and marathon runners, for example, the best who have longer limbs just don't lend a graceful appearance, but they manage to get the job done by winning.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited February 2007
    True enough.

    I maintain that full-out running, as we think of it in terms of sprinting for speed---then covering a distance of some kind, finishing with a leap onto/off something :007) didn't really feature in the Bonds until '87...but since '95, it's absolutely de rigeur...and I imagine there's no going back.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    Yes, and after that point (87), what you see are the actors giving it their all, and some just look more impressive at doing it than others. I do like how Craig added flying hurdles to his. On the side, isn't it remarkable how Tom Cruise made the running thing a staple in his movies, which made it practically in every teaser?
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • bigzilchobigzilcho Toronto, ONPosts: 245MI6 Agent
    Bond running?

    Has anyone mentioned Roger sprinting through the woods in FYEO, a well-done piece of action handled by John Glen.

    By the way, when filming LALD, Guy Hamilton wanted Roger to do some running, to which Roger took him aside to let him know that he was unable to properly run due to an injury.

    Roger's physicality obviously pales besides Connery's or Lazenby's but I maintain that Roger handles himself admirably throughout his run.

    Proof? Check out the dressing room fight in TMWTGG, a punch-up thats worthy of Connery. Also the Sandor fight in TSWLM is a dandy.

    The glass museum brawl in MR deserves a pat on the back.

    And lets not forget Roger's sprint up the stairs to shoot a fleeing Locque in FYEO.

    And how about the Indian bazaar fight in OP? (Ditto for the brawl in Octopussy's bedroom).

    Good stuff all around. Perhaps not at the top level of Bond action...but Roger deserves a little more respect in the mayhem department.

    And lets face it, look at his competition. Its tough to follow a Connery, a guy who looked graceful eating a grape. Roger never had that physical grace.

    Three cheers for Roger, though, because he was a guy who knew he couldn't compete at Sean's level but gave it a worthy effort for 7 movies and achieved more than respectable results.


    "Such a helpful chap."
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited February 2007
    bigzilcho wrote:
    Bond running?

    Has anyone mentioned Roger sprinting through the woods in FYEO, a well-done piece of action handled by John Glen.

    By the way, when filming LALD, Guy Hamilton wanted Roger to do some running, to which Roger took him aside to let him know that he was unable to properly run due to an injury.

    Roger's physicality obviously pales besides Connery's or Lazenby's but I maintain that Roger handles himself admirably throughout his run.

    Proof? Check out the dressing room fight in TMWTGG, a punch-up thats worthy of Connery. Also the Sandor fight in TSWLM is a dandy.

    The glass museum brawl in MR deserves a pat on the back.

    And lets not forget Roger's sprint up the stairs to shoot a fleeing Locque in FYEO.

    And how about the Indian bazaar fight in OP? (Ditto for the brawl in Octopussy's bedroom).

    Good stuff all around. Perhaps not at the top level of Bond action...but Roger deserves a little more respect in the mayhem department.

    And lets face it, look at his competition. Its tough to follow a Connery, a guy who looked graceful eating a grape. Roger never had that physical grace.

    Three cheers for Roger, though, because he was a guy who knew he couldn't compete at Sean's level but gave it a worthy effort for 7 movies and achieved more than respectable results.


    "Such a helpful chap."
    Big, as a huge Moore fan, thank you for sticking up for his physicality. -{
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    I thought Craig's sprint to the Aston was fine...

    See 'hopes, I can be positive! :))
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • starman007starman007 Posts: 13MI6 Agent
    The biggest surprise for me was the pace of the film very fast and action scenes very exciting.
    Biggest disappoitment :

    1. It didn't seem like abond movie it was like watching a steven seagall movie or action jackson.

    2. Daniel Craig to me seemed more like a villian in the background as in TLD theres something missing he just dosent fit with me. Bonds in the past stood out in the movie DC dosnt have the precence to play bond. Personally I would have gone with Hugh Jackman but thats by the by. If this bond for the future I'll stick in the past.
  • RustiRoyaleRustiRoyale Posts: 16MI6 Agent
    Biggest Surprise: the whole movie, on every level a vast improvement over DAD and i liked the new direction they took the franchise in.

    Dissapointment: The theme tune, 'You Know My Name' it sounded very rushed. 'OK you got 1 week to make this single!' sort of rushed
  • Jermaine76Jermaine76 Posts: 40MI6 Agent
    starman007 wrote:
    The biggest surprise for me was the pace of the film very fast and action scenes very exciting.
    Biggest disappoitment :

    1. It didn't seem like abond movie it was like watching a steven seagall movie or action jackson.

    2. Daniel Craig to me seemed more like a villian in the background as in TLD theres something missing he just dosent fit with me. Bonds in the past stood out in the movie DC dosnt have the precence to play bond. Personally I would have gone with Hugh Jackman but thats by the by. If this bond for the future I'll stick in the past.

    This is what I believe also. The movie has a generic feel to it. Its too basic and doesn't elaborate on anything.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited February 2007
    bigzilcho wrote:
    Perhaps not at the top level of Bond action...

    That's really all I'm saying. I like my Bond to be a bit...more, but not Moore, if you catch my drift. IMRO, from a purely kinetic-energy standpoint, he simply isn't in the same league as any other actor who's played the role.

    I've always conceded that Sir Roger had his moments...but his row of beads on the Bond abacus just doesn't equal the sum total of others, as far as I'm concerned---sheer quantity of films notwithstanding. As James Bond, he's an outstanding...UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador ;)
    bigzilcho wrote:
    ...but Roger deserves a little more respect in the mayhem department.

    If you say so, BZ...and I'm glad you and MNL---and countless others---are there to give it to him. He'll just have to make do with the bountiful respect I'll happily afford him in several other categories ;)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • demandidemandi Posts: 2MI6 Agent
    All in all I think Craig's performance was fabolous.
    Only thing I didn't find so exciting were the poker scenes.But that wasn't CR's fault.
  • 3rbrown3rbrown MI6 Top Secret - Scotland, GlaPosts: 100MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    Surprise:
    Less CGI (Great)
    Realistic
    Fantastic acting, especaly from Craig
    My mum liked it (weird)

    Dissappoint:
    Not alot of DB9 time
    No fight with Le Chiffre
  • Le_Chiffre_07Le_Chiffre_07 Posts: 10MI6 Agent
    I think that afew things stood out for me
    1. Craig's great performance
    2. Mads' peformance. He took a low-key charcter and brought out a great show.
    3. BOND BLEEDS!!!!!!:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o I hasve to say that I was shocked. He has never bleed and in TWINE one of the things Q says he has always wanted to teach is 'Never let the enemy see you bleed' Shocking!!! But it added a bit of realism to the film...

    A dissapointment may be the fact I had to watch CR twice in order to get the fact Gettler was Le Chiffre. (The guy who ended up with a nail through his eye...)

    Another being the under-used Valenka. She could have been so much more. Of a charcter and of a woman... I found her to be very masculine?:)?:)
  • Tee HeeTee Hee CBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
    A dissapointment may be the fact I had to watch CR twice in order to get the fact Gettler was Le Chiffre. (The guy who ended up with a nail through his eye...)

    I must disappoint you again. Gettler and Le Chiffre are actually two different characters. Don't worry, you are not the only one to have made this mistake. :s

    The writers/filmmakers could have done a better job to avoid this common misconception. :v
    "My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

    -Roger Moore
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