I noticed something in Casino Royale

Smoke_13Smoke_13 Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
I want to discuss the scene early in the movie when Bond is chasing the bomb maker through the construction site.

Just after the bomb maker jumps the fence and hides behind the piping, Bond comes crashing through the fence driving the front end loader, tractor, what ever the heck you want to call it.

When I first saw that scene, for a split second I groaned "Oh Crap, here's more of the same old Moore and Brosnan, Bond can fly, drive or operate anything he wants with a smug smile on his face." But I was quickly relieved when he bailed out and the chase resumed on foot.

Tonight seeing it at the theater, the guy behind me muttered something like "Aw no, not this." at that exact same part. I'm certain he was feeling that same feeling I originally had of impending franchise doom. That this Bond was going to be like all the others.

My feeling of doom quickly went away and I love CR and really like Craigs way of playing Bond. I just got to thinking though, did anyone else get that "Oh no, cheesy Bond history is about to repeat itself" feeling during that specific scene of just me and that guy behind me?
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Comments

  • samjacksamjack Posts: 2MI6 Agent
    Nope.
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    I had that feeling at the same part, as well. Although, you have to admit, it was pretty awesome.
  • Smoke_13Smoke_13 Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
    The rest of the scene was fantastic! Just that crash through the fence part got me a little worried...

    I just had visions of Bond crashing through the fence on the tractor, dumping it's load on the bomb maker and trapping him under the dirt then phoning M and saying something like, "Relax M, Ive got him "covered." 8-) I think I would have left the theater.

    Thank the powers that be, that they went the direction they did and made such a great film.
  • VirgilVirgil Posts: 99MI6 Agent
    No, because it could happen in real life.The feeling you describe was the awful one I had when I first saw GE in theatre back in 95, and all throughout the Brosnan years: the line that Ian Fleming himself drew for the universe Bond inhabits (he said, "higly unlikely, not impossible") was crossed when Brosnan jumped off the mountain, sky dived by the plane, got in it and flew away.
    CR is the Bond universe that Fleming envisioned. Hopefully it will remain as such.
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    edited January 2007
    My only concerns regarding the construction site/embassy chase (as I was watching at the cinema) regarded the length, which I felt was a little too long. And the ending when Bond shoots at the gas cannisters, why are they lying about so freely in the grounds of the embassy? Minor criticisms really. Never for a moment did I think anything in that sequence was impossible. Improbable, definitely.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited January 2007
    This reminds me of the acceptable/unacceptable thread. :D I loved the chase scene in CR but before I comment further on it, I want to say that I don't think Bond's ability to manoeuvre any vehicle he wanted was at all cheesy and I loved the aeroplane scene in GE. ;)

    Now, as I said, I thought the chase scene in CR was terrific. It was quite implausible but was still relatively realistic. There was however one moment which IMO took things too far; that was when the bomber leapfroged over a table (?) and did not fall onto his face. That moment struck me as entirely false, because while I could accept that a bomber was also a skilled athlete with alot of endurance, that jump seemed to me to be far too difficult for some ordinary guy to accomplish as if it was the easiest thing in the world.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Smoke_13Smoke_13 Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
    I think people are mistaking the reason for the thread. I'm not saying it's impossible for Bond to drive a tractor. It is absolutely 100% possible that Bond could drive a tractor.

    There was just a certain look in that "crash through the fence scene" that felt like the A typical Moore/Brosnan type Bond. Smugly driving a tractor and chasing the bad guy. It's not the plausability of it that I'm debating it's the feel that I got during that brief scene.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    I havent driven a scoop like in CR, but I have driven a forklift. Id also imagine that they are reasonably similar to one another. If you know enough to drive a simple manual transmission. I didnt think that it was mych harder than that.
  • PendragonPendragon ColoradoPosts: 2,640MI6 Agent
    I laughed out loud and got shushed by the people in front of me. nearly spat out my coke too. pretty funny! I had no feeling of dread...I felt that "finally! Bond's back!" made me pretty happy! He's got to wreck SOMETHING...

    ~Pen -{
    Hey! Observer! You trying to get yourself Killed?

    mountainburdphotography.wordpress.com
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Pendragon wrote:
    I laughed out loud and got shushed by the people in front of me. nearly spat out my coke too. pretty funny! I had no feeling of dread...I felt that "finally! Bond's back!" made me pretty happy! He's got to wreck SOMETHING...

    ~Pen -{

    That's pretty close to how I felt about it. I was grinning ear-to-ear, but not because I thought it was ridiculous. I was grinning because it was a perfect Bondian moment: Outrageous, sure, but not ridiculous. It was an action sequence and they emphasized excitement, not laughs. In the old days they would have added Keystone cops elements, like pigeons doing a double-take, or a tuxedo-wearin Bond putting on a hard-hat. It's all in the tone of the film.
  • PendragonPendragon ColoradoPosts: 2,640MI6 Agent
    XD yea...just to clarify, I deff. wasn't expecting it, which is what made me almost spit soda on someone....I loved it!

    ~Pen -{
    Hey! Observer! You trying to get yourself Killed?

    mountainburdphotography.wordpress.com
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    I agree, but my views on CR have been expressed enough. To me, it's like if it's a chase on foot, how can Bond have time to leap into a bulldozer, find the ignition, rev it up etc? By the time it takes for me to just write that, the bloke would be 50 yards further away. It seemed like Campbell referring back to GE when the tank suddenly bursts thru the wall... plus how would Bond know that the tractor or whatever would target the bomber and not all the innocents on the building site. Still, if it floats your boat..
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • dimchdimch Posts: 19MI6 Agent
    I guess what the concern here is that when the scene came up, people thought "oh this is so typical Bond". And that's not what you want in a movie, because when people are able to predict what happens, that goes towards what makes up a bad movie.

    When that scene started, I had the "oh come on" feeling, which was quickly extinguished as the chase scene began.
  • S_P_E_C_T_R_ES_P_E_C_T_R_E Posts: 281MI6 Agent
    regarding that scene, the bomb maker fires a couple of rounds hitting the glass, THE BULLET PROOF GLASS ?????? 8-)
  • s96024s96024 Posts: 1,519MI6 Agent
    edited January 2007
    I thought the scene was great. The only part which I felt was improbable if not impossible was the crane to crane jump.

    When he runs up the crane, because he was wearing a harness it looked a bit weird, which niggles me everytime for some strange reason.

    When bond threw the gun at Mollaka and knocked him over that was a bit ridiculous and pointless.

    But nothing completely unbelievable.

    Everyone has different likes and dislikes, and opinions on the feasibility of different parts.

    For me it was brilliant overall.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    s96024 wrote:
    I thought the scene was great. The only part which I felt was improbable if not impossible was the crane to crane jump.

    When he runs up the crane, because he was wearing a harness it looked a bit weird, which niggles me everytime for some strange reason.

    When bond threw the gun at Mollaka and knocked him over that was a bit ridiculous and pointless.

    But nothing completely unbelievable.

    Everyone has different likes and dislikes, and opinions on the feasibility of different parts.

    For me it was brilliant overall.


    I don't think the gun knocked him over, but rather caused him to lose his balance. A person would instinctively move their body to get out of the way of the object that was thrown at them, which is a little dicey when your feet are standing on a relatively narrow girder.

    The part that was unbelievable for me was Sebastian Foucant himself. His athleticism is absolutely incredible. It knocked me out when he jumped a couple floors by bouncing off the walls of the elevator shaft. Hard to believe someone can do that, but he apparently did.
  • lavabubblelavabubble Posts: 229MI6 Agent
    The thing I have noticed the more I have seen it is how obvious it is in 2 different scenes that its not DC in the midst of the action.

    The first is in the PTS when they leap out of the cubicle and onto the floor. The face of the stuntman is clearly visible. The same goes for one section of the stairwell fight. I just feel that the editing has let them down a bit here, or maybe they didn't plan on us lot picking it to pieces so thoroughly whilst waiting for the DVD to be released ;)
  • Smoke_13Smoke_13 Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
    Great point too Spectre...and Bond doesnt even flinch as the bullets hit the glass! lol

    You'd think Bond would at least get wide eyed for a split second as the bullets hit the glass, like "Holy Crap! He's shooting at me!"

    I'm beginning to notice another fundamental difference in us as Bond fans. In general, some Bond fans love those smug, overly-confident, over the top Bond moments but we -the smart ones, don't. :D Just kidding :))
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    lavabubble wrote:
    The thing I have noticed the more I have seen it is how obvious it is in 2 different scenes that its not DC in the midst of the action.

    The first is in the PTS when they leap out of the cubicle and onto the floor. The face of the stuntman is clearly visible. The same goes for one section of the stairwell fight. I just feel that the editing has let them down a bit here, or maybe they didn't plan on us lot picking it to pieces so thoroughly whilst waiting for the DVD to be released ;)

    You can add a third. During the crane fight between Bond & Mollaka the camera pans across the screen. Even though it is quite a distant shot of the fight you can still see it is a stuntman and not DC on the crane.

    Perhaps it is bad editing. Or maybe it's some kind of homage to Roger Moore and his unlookalike stuntmen. :D
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    During the crane fight between Bond & Mollaka the camera pans across the screen. Even though it is quite a distant shot of the fight you can still see it is a stuntman and not DC on the crane.

    Perhaps it is bad editing. Or maybe it's some kind of homage to Roger Moore and his unlookalike stuntmen. :D
    lavabubble wrote:
    The thing I have noticed the more I have seen it is how obvious it is in 2 different scenes that its not DC in the midst of the action.

    The first is in the PTS when they leap out of the cubicle and onto the floor. The face of the stuntman is clearly visible. The same goes for one section of the stairwell fight. I just feel that the editing has let them down a bit here, or maybe they didn't plan on us lot picking it to pieces so thoroughly whilst waiting for the DVD to be released ;)

    I think it's more a case of too much scrutiny. It noticed the crane shot MNL talks about -- but only after I'd seen in four times and had read on AJB that you could detect the stuntman. I didn't notice the instances you mention, but I'll check it out.

    I'm not sure these types of things can be avoided if you watch too closely. It's like CGI effects. I could tell in Superman Returns when it was Routh and when it was CGI. I just ignore it. I figure I've always been able to ignore the fact that King Kong is a puppet in the original film, so being able to forget it isn't always Harrison Ford under the fedora in the Indiana Jones films is easy.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,057Chief of Staff
    highhopes wrote:
    I think it's more a case of too much scrutiny.
    I'm not sure these types of things can be avoided if you watch too closely. I just ignore it.

    Totally with you there, hh. It's a movie, it's there to enjoy. Sure, you can watch a film ten times (we're fans here, after all, it's what we do) and then spot the stuntmen, wires, etc, but as long as it's not too blatant, it shouldn't detract from the viewing pleasure. There's also a little thing called suspension of disbelief- we all know Superman can't really fly, and that Kong can't exist, but we're there for entertainment first and foremost. This also applies to jumping from one crane to another, which is somewhat easier to swallow.
  • PoorMansJBPoorMansJB USAPosts: 1,198MI6 Agent
    regarding that scene, the bomb maker fires a couple of rounds hitting the glass, THE BULLET PROOF GLASS ?????? 8-)

    I had the same reaction. I can accept that the glass might be shatterproof, designed to protect the driver against chunks of "exploding" concrete hitting the cab during demolition or something, but a direct hit by a bullet? Naw ....

    As to it being a "cheesy" moment, I didn't think that. What bothered me, though, was the notion that Bond could mount the loader, overpower the driver, get situated, and be off ... yet never more than 20 feet behind Mollaka.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    I think it's more a case of too much scrutiny.
    I'm not sure these types of things can be avoided if you watch too closely. I just ignore it.

    Totally with you there, hh. It's a movie, it's there to enjoy. Sure, you can watch a film ten times (we're fans here, after all, it's what we do) and then spot the stuntmen, wires, etc, but as long as it's not too blatant, it shouldn't detract from the viewing pleasure. There's also a little thing called suspension of disbelief- we all know Superman can't really fly, and that Kong can't exist, but we're there for entertainment first and foremost. This also applies to jumping from one crane to another, which is somewhat easier to swallow.

    You make a good point about AJB folks being uber-fans. We (over?)analyze every frame, utterance, plot point, actor, actress, score excerpt, sound effect, stunt, etc ... as if it was Shakespearean drama. Remember the lengthy discussion about the Aston Martin's swerve around Vesper? (I'm as bad as anyone -- I was right in the thick of it). Real-life accident investigators don't look that closely at their cases. :))
    CR will be lucky if it's still standing by the time November 2008 rolls around.
  • s96024s96024 Posts: 1,519MI6 Agent
    The part that was unbelievable for me was Sebastian Foucant himself. His athleticism is absolutely incredible. It knocked me out when he jumped a couple floors by bouncing off the walls of the elevator shaft. Hard to believe someone can do that, but he apparently did.

    I suppose this is a problem for people who have never watched the sport before, for me I particurlarly loved the lift shaft jump.
    PoorMansJB wrote:
    I had the same reaction. I can accept that the glass might be shatterproof, designed to protect the driver against chunks of "exploding" concrete hitting the cab during demolition or something, but a direct hit by a bullet? Naw ....

    As to it being a "cheesy" moment, I didn't think that. What bothered me, though, was the notion that Bond could mount the loader, overpower the driver, get situated, and be off ... yet never more than 20 feet behind Mollaka.

    I'd imagine it's the same type of glass used. You just have to look at how those machines are used in war situations.
  • dimchdimch Posts: 19MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    I think it's more a case of too much scrutiny.
    I'm not sure these types of things can be avoided if you watch too closely. I just ignore it.

    Totally with you there, hh. It's a movie, it's there to enjoy. Sure, you can watch a film ten times (we're fans here, after all, it's what we do) and then spot the stuntmen, wires, etc, but as long as it's not too blatant, it shouldn't detract from the viewing pleasure. There's also a little thing called suspension of disbelief- we all know Superman can't really fly, and that Kong can't exist, but we're there for entertainment first and foremost. This also applies to jumping from one crane to another, which is somewhat easier to swallow.

    I'm pretty sure that King Kong does exist somewhere...
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    PoorMansJB wrote:
    regarding that scene, the bomb maker fires a couple of rounds hitting the glass, THE BULLET PROOF GLASS ?????? 8-)

    I had the same reaction. I can accept that the glass might be shatterproof, designed to protect the driver against chunks of "exploding" concrete hitting the cab during demolition or something, but a direct hit by a bullet? Naw ....

    As to it being a "cheesy" moment, I didn't think that. What bothered me, though, was the notion that Bond could mount the loader, overpower the driver, get situated, and be off ... yet never more than 20 feet behind Mollaka.

    I think if you're able to withstand a large piece of rock falling from thirty stories up, you can withstand a tiny bullet.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,057Chief of Staff
    dimch wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that King Kong does exist somewhere...

    Forgive me; my mind was elsewhere :p.
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    I think it's more a case of too much scrutiny.
    I'm not sure these types of things can be avoided if you watch too closely. I just ignore it.

    Totally with you there, hh. It's a movie, it's there to enjoy. Sure, you can watch a film ten times (we're fans here, after all, it's what we do) and then spot the stuntmen, wires, etc, but as long as it's not too blatant, it shouldn't detract from the viewing pleasure. There's also a little thing called suspension of disbelief- we all know Superman can't really fly, and that Kong can't exist, but we're there for entertainment first and foremost. This also applies to jumping from one crane to another, which is somewhat easier to swallow.

    Agreed. The example I gave from the crane fight in my previous post did not detract from my viewing pleasure at all. There are only very rare instances in the Bond series where it has and still does detract from my viewing pleasure. Most notably, the Paris chase sequence in AVTAK. It's too blatantly obvious on more than one occasion that Roger Moore Bond is not driving the car.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,057Chief of Staff
    Most notably, the Paris chase sequence in AVTAK. It's too blatantly obvious on more than one occasion that Roger Moore Bond is not driving the car.

    I thought of mentioning that sequence after the word "blatant" in my earlier post, but was afraid of being JFF'd from behind and the whole thread turning into (yet) another AVTAK debate :D!
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Most notably, the Paris chase sequence in AVTAK. It's too blatantly obvious on more than one occasion that Roger Moore Bond is not driving the car.

    I thought of mentioning that sequence after the word "blatant" in my earlier post, but was afraid of being JFF'd from behind and the whole thread turning into (yet) another AVTAK debate :D!

    I was JFF'd a few days ago when I stated in one of my posts that OP was superior to AVTAK......How dare I :D
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