Vintage Bond Props - Connery's Cigarette Lighter & Case

qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
GdLHS.jpg

LIGHTER IS MARKED DUNHILL TO TOP WITH PAT.No440072 & MADE IN ENGLAND TO BASE

Connery's DN, GF, Dunhill lighter correctly sized to DN cigarette case. There were 3 versions of the Dunhill differing in size. Within each size, there were many variations in engine turning of the engraved textures.

This is the smallest size of the same model with typical turning plus additional vertical lines.
o8mVr.jpg

there was an intermediate size.

This is the largest model and the correct size used in the film
8nPJJ.jpg

The way to work this out is to take the cigarette case measurements based on the vintage cigarette size and ratio this out to the lighter.
A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
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Comments

  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    Very nice Sid, are they hard to come by ?
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    danjaq_0ff wrote:
    Very nice Sid, are they hard to come by ?

    Unbelievably hard...on average had to wait 5 years...often they have suffered some dings. The difficulty is in picking up prime examples.

    But it is worth the hunt...those early scenes of Connery flicking the Dunhill's fullcap then looking nonchalent in response to Miss Trench plus in GF's Mexican cafe, snapping the lid shut and feigning innocence when the bomb goes off are some of my favourite COOL moments.

    The are solid silver and heavy
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,241Quartermasters
    Very nice. I have the small version of the "full cap". Been hunting for the tall version. Thanks for sharing.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
  • MANDY1MANDY1 TISPosts: 2,608MI6 Agent
    Nice items and very very rare {[]

    Thanks for sharing.

    Best Regards,
    Teppo
    Knowing who to trust is Everything in this business.

    TIS - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"

    Formerly known as Teppo
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    7289 wrote:
    Were the film props checked or plain?

    Film props were plain and was a custom order to Dunhill from a customer who did not pick up - Eon bought it instead - there is another thread about this - in all my years of looking - have not seen another plain one - the large textured version I have is the production version that is most commonly seen.
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Gadget MeisterGadget Meister Bicester, OxonPosts: 1,972MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    I think you're referring to the Dunhill Unique in LTK which I agree with what you're saying, but this thread is talking about the Dunhill Broadboy Half Cap used in DN & GF. These are a totally different design and although silver they were oxidised down to an almost gunmetal colour. I believe the finish was 'engine turned'. I have an example of the tall Broadboy which I am going to have serviced by Dunhill and then oxidise. DG had a great thread a few months back.
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    I think you're referring to the Dunhill Unique in LTK which I agree with what you're saying, but this thread is talking about the Dunhill Broadboy Half Cap used in DN & GF. These are a totally different design and although silver they were oxidised down to an almost gunmetal colour. I believe the finish was 'engine turned'. I have an example of the tall Broadboy which I am going to have serviced by Dunhill and then oxidise. DG had a great thread a few months back.

    I refer to the DN, GF Dunhill Broadboy - its documented, if I remember correctly from EON sources, one of the books over past few years.

    BTW, not to start an argument but for the sake of adding to our collective knowledge - The DN, GF lighters are full cap, not half cap. You can tell from the closeup shot in GF when he looks at the Submariner. The halfcap and fullcap lids look different. The other tell is in DN on the chemin de fer table - the lighter has a full rollbar to ignite the flame- a halfcap does not have a rollbar but a thin wheel that is smaller/harder to use - this is the reason the MkII improves the functionality.

    The novels talk about oxidation but the Connery movies show lighter to be plain silver.

    I haven't looked into the LTK lighter as much so respect your comments there.
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Gadget MeisterGadget Meister Bicester, OxonPosts: 1,972MI6 Agent
    qbvi
    I beg to differ, the Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2 does have a roller, the Mk 1 has a wheel. I know because I have one. I also refer the honourable gentleman to the following thread:

    http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/24832/bonds-lighter/

    And as you can see from the photos in that thread and the photos above, the Mk2 does have a roller. DG has the smaller version and I have the larger version. I will look again on the BluRay next week, but I was always led to believe that the DN Dunhill was a Broadboy Mk2. Also unless my eyes deceived me, the DN one was definately not silver but gunmetal grey.

    Regards
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    qbvi
    I beg to differ, the Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2 does have a roller, the Mk 1 has a wheel. I know because I have one. I also refer the honourable gentleman to the following thread:

    http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/24832/bonds-lighter/

    And as you can see from the photos in that thread and the photos above, the Mk2 does have a roller. DG has the smaller version and I have the larger version. I will look again on the BluRay next week, but I was always led to believe that the DN Dunhill was a Broadboy Mk2. Also unless my eyes deceived me, the DN one was definately not silver but gunmetal grey.

    Regards

    No problems, all friends here. You are correct re Mk2 DN (GF also)

    Here's my take on it.

    Mk1 - thumb wheel ignition + half cap (only half of the lid has a side)
    Mk11 - long rollbar ignition + full cap (both sides of lid has sides - see GF/Sub scenes)

    Both of these models were issued with different finishes and sizes

    The silver/oxidisation finish is more problematic. As the threads discuss oxidation - I always interpreted that in context of how much Fleming spoke about Bond's oxidised lighter in the novels. BUT, BUT, BUT in the novels, Bond uses the Ronson, not a Dunhill.

    MOVIES - (DN, FRWL, GF) When Eon bought the customised Dunhill Mk2 for DN, consensus thought is it was a plain finish. To the question of oxidation of this lighter - I don't have Bluray but from normal DVD the DN early gambling scenes show both the Cig case and lighter with reflective finishes, brighter mirror like silver + dark patches. (Amendment-see additional points raised by ASP9mm in a subsequent post on this thread on dunhill shop records and Donald Grant's mention of Giblin's book).

    NOVELS - In the novels, Fleming refers to the cig case (and possibly lighter too) as gunmetal black (LLD?)
    Presumably the lighter matches this. However the process of gun bluing is a form of oxidation I believe. In the novels Fleming speaks of a oxidised lighter but he never speaks of an oxidised cig case. Why is this if the process of turning both the case and lighter into a gunmental black is the process of oxidation, Fleming should be referring to both an oxidised gunmetal cig case and as he does, an oxidised lighter. See my train of thought?

    That Fleming refers to a gunmetal case and at various times a gunmetal lighter and an oxidised black lighter can also be interepreted to mean the lighter is well used as expressly described in passages. This is consistent with Bond/Fleming been a 50-60 cig a day man. The references to "oxidation" may actually refer to the "well-used" context, ie when you use a petrol or even gas lighter a lot, the top of the lighter starts to turn black....ie well used as the heat "oxidises" the metal. Throughout the novels, Fleming mentions Bond's well used possessions, the houndstooth suit, the battered Revelation pigskin attache case, etc....all the well used things he himself owned.

    Its a form of inverted snobbery in the writing, saying I own expensive beautiful things. But I do not buy for the snob value. I buy for the quality and the practicality...hence you see my
    things well used.....

    p/s the term "gunmetal" requires some care, even gunmetal grey, etc. Gunmetal comes in many shades ranging from traditional blued-black, night black to a silver like finish, so pictures are better to capture these nuances than words.
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Gadget MeisterGadget Meister Bicester, OxonPosts: 1,972MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    Love healthy discussion and the descriptions you give above. One query though, which seems to have come to light in your above post. When I refer to a half cap I mean that the hinge line for the cap is 2/3 across the width of the lighter and the full depth, unlike a Rollagas where the hinge is mounted on the edge of the lighter meaning the cap covers the whole of the top of the lighter. Is this your understanding or have I completely hashed up my description?

    Regards
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,241Quartermasters
    edited February 2010
    qbvi is in my estimation a dyed in the wool Bond collector. Not a poseur at all. He collects some of the coolest items in both the cinematic and literary Bond worlds and his knowledge about those items is phenomenal. So he is above reproach in my book. However, if memory serves, the reference to the Dunhill lighter and cigarette case being oxidized comes from Giblin's James Bond's London. I think the passage in the book refers to the lighter having to go back to be re-oxidized for each new movie because the lighter and case would "mark" from use. I don't seem to be able to put my hands on my copy at the moment, but I'm certain it's there.

    qbvi, please post more pictures from your collection. Absolutely fantastic! Today was a great day.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    Love healthy discussion and the descriptions you give above. One query though, which seems to have come to light in your above post. When I refer to a half cap I mean that the hinge line for the cap is 2/3 across the width of the lighter and the full depth, unlike a Rollagas where the hinge is mounted on the edge of the lighter meaning the cap covers the whole of the top of the lighter. Is this your understanding or have I completely hashed up my description?

    Regards

    Like wise...only though such discussion, we both learn. Different perspectives shed new light so thanks.

    Your 2/3 description matches my understanding. But BOTH the Mk1 and Mk 2 fits your 2/3 description. What cause the Mk1 to differ from the Mk2 are the points I raise above re the rollers and the lid sides. Lid sides hard to describe properly - think the best way to approach this is for me to post a few extra pictures of both half, full caps, etc.

    Give me a day or so to get back on this.
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    qbvi is in my estimation a died in the wool Bond collector. Not a poseur at all. He collects some of the coolest items in both the cinematic and literary Bond worlds and his knowledge about those items is phenomenal. So he is above reproach in my book. However, if memory serves, the reference to the Dunhill lighter and cigarette case being oxidized comes from Giblin's James Bond's London. I think the passage in the book refers to the lighter having to go back to be re-oxidized for each new movie because the lighter and case would "mark" from use. I don't seem to be able to put my hands on my copy at the moment, but I'm certain it's there.

    qbvi, please post more pictures from your collection. Absolutely fantastic! Today was a great day.

    DG

    Hey Rick
    Thanks for the praise but I have observed your expertise also - so I will reflect similar praise upon your abilities and collection, I might add.

    I did not know that about the film lighter/oxidation bit - you learn something new each day - I have been trying to get Giblins book but its ridiculously expensive now. Nevertheless in the films the colour is more on the silvery side (as opposed to typical gunmetal colurs which verges close to dark grey/black end of the spectrum), irrespective of the chemical/colouring process used.

    Will put more pics up over time
    Rgds, Sid
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,499MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    The original lighter and case were definately finished in black using a gun bluing process. Dunhill did that themselves for the customer that didn't collect the order. The finish wasn't that durable and they had to re-finish it again everytime it was used.

    Dunhill had a great museum below their old Jermyn St shop and I and an old member here who was really in to Bond smoking paraphanalia met up there some years back. They still have records going back to those early days if anyone has the patience to go and look them up. Both the lighter and case were plain.

    If you are brave enough, you can easily get someone to remove the knurling on a solid silver wideboy and get that plain finish. Dunhill in those days didn't skimp on their materials and the cases were very thick. I hink that was what BladerunnerOZD did in the end and it looked very good.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    Asp9mm wrote:
    The original lighter and case were definately finished in black using a gun bluing process. Dunhill did that themselves for the customer that didn't collect the order. The finish wasn't that durable and they had to re-finish it again everytime it was used.

    Dunhill had a great museum below their old Jermyn St shop and I and an old member here who was really in to Bond smoking paraphanalia met up there some years back. They still have records going back to those early days if anyone has the patience to go and look them up. Both the lighter and case were plain.

    If you are brave enough, you can easily get someone to remove the knurling on a solid silver wideboy and get that plain finish. Dunhill in those days didn't skimp on their materials and the cases were very thick. I hink that was what BladerunnerOZD did in the end and it looked very good.


    I need my eyes checked. I always took the dark shades to be dark reflections off the smooth surfaces. But with your points I can see how the visual evidence can be the other way around - shiny reflections off a dark base.

    rA8nA.jpg

    I am not going to be that brave because the engine turning is "deep" and grinding the knurling down will reduce the dimensions, prob around 2-3mm.

    ps I amended earlier post to refer latecomers to your post and to Rick's Giblin reference. Thanks, as Rick says, "Its been a great day."
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,241Quartermasters
    qbvi wrote:
    qbvi is in my estimation a died in the wool Bond collector. Not a poseur at all. He collects some of the coolest items in both the cinematic and literary Bond worlds and his knowledge about those items is phenomenal. So he is above reproach in my book. However, if memory serves, the reference to the Dunhill lighter and cigarette case being oxidized comes from Giblin's James Bond's London. I think the passage in the book refers to the lighter having to go back to be re-oxidized for each new movie because the lighter and case would "mark" from use. I don't seem to be able to put my hands on my copy at the moment, but I'm certain it's there.

    qbvi, please post more pictures from your collection. Absolutely fantastic! Today was a great day.

    DG

    Hey Rick
    Thanks for the praise but I have observed your expertise also - so I will reflect similar praise upon your abilities and collection, I might add.

    I did not know that about the film lighter/oxidation bit - you learn something new each day - I have been trying to get Giblins book but its ridiculously expensive now. Nevertheless in the films the colour is more on the silvery side (as opposed to typical gunmetal colurs which verges close to dark grey/black end of the spectrum), irrespective of the chemical/colouring process used.

    Will put more pics up over time
    Rgds, Sid

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. That means a lot coming from you. As for the smooth finish, I'l bet a silversmith could do it by adding silver (soldering it on) and then smoothing it out. Probably cost a pretty penny though.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    qbvi wrote:
    qbvi

    Love healthy discussion and the descriptions you give above. One query though, which seems to have come to light in your above post. When I refer to a half cap I mean that the hinge line for the cap is 2/3 across the width of the lighter and the full depth, unlike a Rollagas where the hinge is mounted on the edge of the lighter meaning the cap covers the whole of the top of the lighter. Is this your understanding or have I completely hashed up my description?

    Regards

    Like wise...only though such discussion, we both learn. Different perspectives shed new light so thanks.

    Your 2/3 description matches my understanding. But BOTH the Mk1 and Mk 2 fits your 2/3 description. What cause the Mk1 to differ from the Mk2 are the points I raise above re the rollers and the lid sides. Lid sides hard to describe properly - think the best way to approach this is for me to post a few extra pictures of both half, full caps, etc.

    Give me a day or so to get back on this.



    Here's what a full cap refers to...the lid is fully enclosed by sides around the hinge
    KpJ1J.jpg

    Here's what a half cap refers to...the lid is only partially enclosed.
    c09xA.jpg

    Here are some pics of the small size MkII
    rDgqS.jpg
    bX4CS.jpg
    KqvVA.jpg
    bXjAJ.jpg

    Here's pics of the large MkII
    Sitting in the velvet lined presentation box
    bZWd9.jpg
    In all its commercially available glory
    Ks3c9.jpg
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    edited February 2010
    The miniature Broadboy MkI was introduced around 1936. While stated in some books that this lighter was mainly sold in Great Britain, there are examples sold in Belgium. The Belgian tax stamp is clear proof to that. The Dunhill lighters can either be silver-plated or solid sterling and works of course with petrol. It has a half cap, (full caps also open the front of the lighter, the cap extends to the front), making it a MK1. Small thumb wheel and correct filling screw. Lighter has a concealed flint chamber. An actual part of the back side slides away to reveal the flint screw. 37*32*11.5 mm: Miniature

    The standard Broadboy MkI was introduced around 1936. Description is similar to miniature version except for size. 56*32*11,5mm

    The Broadboy Mk2 was introduced around 1950. The standard size is 57*31*11mm
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Gadget MeisterGadget Meister Bicester, OxonPosts: 1,972MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    Ok that clears up my misaprehension of the terms Full/Half cap, thanks for that. So now I know that I have a Full Cap, full size Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2. I will try and get some pics up next week of my lighter and case. The case is solid silver Dunhill and does not have a closure catch, the hinge slides and locks two lugs in place, I think it's quite unusual and if not exact, is in keeping with a Bond gadget. Just need to find the time get them cleaned up and oxidised. I really enjoy bathing in the knowledge that's around on this forum.
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    So if I understand the posts, Cinema Bond's lighter was a Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2, with a plain case finished in black.

    It would seem that the original lighter was either silver plated or sterling, because silver is easy to blacken with a solution readily available to jewelers. As noted this finish is somewhat fraglie - and had to be redone to keep the lighter camera worthy.

    How about the original cigarette case. It was apparently finished to match the lighter. Was this part of the same order Dunhill made the lighter for. Is there a model number for the cigarette case and what metal was it fashioned from?

    Inquiring minds want to know..............
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    Ok that clears up my misaprehension of the terms Full/Half cap, thanks for that. So now I know that I have a Full Cap, full size Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2. I will try and get some pics up next week of my lighter and case. The case is solid silver Dunhill and does not have a closure catch, the hinge slides and locks two lugs in place, I think it's quite unusual and if not exact, is in keeping with a Bond gadget. Just need to find the time get them cleaned up and oxidised. I really enjoy bathing in the knowledge that's around on this forum.

    glad to be of assistance {[]
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • qbviqbvi AustraliaPosts: 254MI6 Agent
    qbvi

    Ok that clears up my misaprehension of the terms Full/Half cap, thanks for that. So now I know that I have a Full Cap, full size Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2. I will try and get some pics up next week of my lighter and case. The case is solid silver Dunhill and does not have a closure catch, the hinge slides and locks two lugs in place, I think it's quite unusual and if not exact, is in keeping with a Bond gadget. Just need to find the time get them cleaned up and oxidised. I really enjoy bathing in the knowledge that's around on this forum.


    GM If you have the time, love to see pics of your lighter. cheers, Sid
    A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate
  • Gadget MeisterGadget Meister Bicester, OxonPosts: 1,972MI6 Agent
    Will do, I'm away until Monday, will get on it then.
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,499MI6 Agent
    7289 wrote:
    So if I understand the posts, Cinema Bond's lighter was a Dunhill Broadboy Mk 2, with a plain case finished in black.

    It would seem that the original lighter was either silver plated or sterling, because silver is easy to blacken with a solution readily available to jewelers. As noted this finish is somewhat fraglie - and had to be redone to keep the lighter camera worthy.

    How about the original cigarette case. It was apparently finished to match the lighter. Was this part of the same order Dunhill made the lighter for. Is there a model number for the cigarette case and what metal was it fashioned from?

    Inquiring minds want to know..............

    Yep.

    The original lighter was a plain sterling silver, solid, as was the case. The lighter and case were a comission from this customer that never turned up to collect. There was no model number as it was a one off. I imagine it was an easy order as it was just a regular lighter and case that they pulled before the engine turned pattern was put on. If that is the case and there was a model number for the engine turned case, I'm sure Dunhill will have records. Although they are fragmented and half lost from that period.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • ke02ewwke02eww USPosts: 2,063MI6 Agent
    qbvi is in my estimation a dyed in the wool Bond collector. Not a poseur at all. He collects some of the coolest items in both the cinematic and literary Bond worlds and his knowledge about those items is phenomenal. So he is above reproach in my book. However, if memory serves, the reference to the Dunhill lighter and cigarette case being oxidized comes from Giblin's James Bond's London. I think the passage in the book refers to the lighter having to go back to be re-oxidized for each new movie because the lighter and case would "mark" from use. I don't seem to be able to put my hands on my copy at the moment, but I'm certain it's there.

    qbvi, please post more pictures from your collection. Absolutely fantastic! Today was a great day.

    DG

    As usual, DG sums it up perfectly....

    Sid is one of the best guys on here.....

    Loved this tread....we all learned something.....

    Sid, ASP9mm's suggestion re: the Dunhill "library" is an obvious "must go' when you're over...

    ASP, how about we look into it, and perhaps a few could make the visit?...
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    While at Dunhill's try to convince them to make a special run of both the case and the lighter..... would love to have that set, IMHO after the Walther PPK and the Rolex watch, the lighter and case are the "ultimate" James Bond props.
  • ke02ewwke02eww USPosts: 2,063MI6 Agent
    7289 wrote:
    While at Dunhill's try to convince them to make a special run of both the case and the lighter..... would love to have that set, IMHO after the Walther PPK and the Rolex watch, the lighter and case are the "ultimate" James Bond props.

    spot on 7289...

    I really like this idea....
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,499MI6 Agent
    ke02eww wrote:
    qbvi is in my estimation a dyed in the wool Bond collector. Not a poseur at all. He collects some of the coolest items in both the cinematic and literary Bond worlds and his knowledge about those items is phenomenal. So he is above reproach in my book. However, if memory serves, the reference to the Dunhill lighter and cigarette case being oxidized comes from Giblin's James Bond's London. I think the passage in the book refers to the lighter having to go back to be re-oxidized for each new movie because the lighter and case would "mark" from use. I don't seem to be able to put my hands on my copy at the moment, but I'm certain it's there.

    qbvi, please post more pictures from your collection. Absolutely fantastic! Today was a great day.

    DG

    As usual, DG sums it up perfectly....

    Sid is one of the best guys on here.....

    Loved this tread....we all learned something.....

    Sid, ASP9mm's suggestion re: the Dunhill "library" is an obvious "must go' when you're over...

    ASP, how about we look into it, and perhaps a few could make the visit?...

    I've no idea where it is now. It used to be below their Jermyn St store, but they went and moved to that small place in Bond St. I used to know someone very well that used to work at Dunhill HQ, very perky blonde with bobbed hair, used to wear absolutely nothing. She appeared in an S&M documentary for Channel 4 and was subsequently sacked. Jo was her name, she came from Solihull, fantastic girl.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
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