Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,777MI6 Agent
I learned that Miss Harris was in a Bond film. I punched the air and said "Yes!" I saw the final scenes, and the precedent they establish - and wanted to throw a bloody party! I sincerely hope she sticks around for a long time like Lois Maxwell did.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
The only problem I have with it is that the very nature of the Bond/Moneypenny relationship, to date, has been that it never gets consummated. The idea of having them be interracial can be interpreted by some people as playing into the notion of keeping the races separate, something that quite a few people in society still believe.
I've seen SF twice and not once at any time did I think about that aspect.
You & me both MG.
I worry about this thread now.
Yes, I know, nobody's ever a racist nowadays nor knows anyone who is. 8-)
Yes, I know, nobody's ever a racist nowadays nor knows anyone who is. 8-)
What's that supposed to mean?!?
Just what it says: It means that just because you personally didn't think it that there's no reason to believe that others don't or won't. It means people today are often dismissive that a problem exists even though there's obvious and ample evidence to suggest otherwise.
I interpreted the gist of your post very differently, hence asking what you meant.
I'm sure nobody on here believes that the world is such a rosy place, particular where racism & bigotry exist. From my point of view, I certainly didn't interpret anything in SF to suggest any sort of 'racial conspiracy' or purposely trying avoid any inter-racial relations. If anything. I just thought Mendes was teasing us with a "did they, or didn't they?" scenario. Perhaps I'm way off the mark - who knows? I guess if some people see this in some other & deeper way, then they have a very different mindset to myself.
I interpreted the gist of your post very differently, hence asking what you meant.
I'm sure nobody on here believes that the world is such a rosy place, particular where racism & bigotry exist. From my point of view, I certainly didn't interpret anything in SF to suggest any sort of 'racial conspiracy' or purposely trying avoid any inter-racial relations. If anything. I just thought Mendes was teasing us with a "did they, or didn't they?" scenario. Perhaps I'm way off the mark - who knows? I guess if some people see this in some other & deeper way, then they have a very different mindset to myself.
I wasn't saying there was a racial conspiracy either -- my only point was that some people could interpret the dynamics of the historically unrequited relationship to have changed because now race has been introduced to it. Take the same concept and apply it even 10 or 20 years ago, and these dynamics would have been obvious in their message, and there are still people walking around who feel the same way. I don't think that's how the filmmakers intended it, but I do think that people could legitimately read that into the relationship, even if others don't. I'm fine with it; my only concern is that it could provide fodder for interpretation.
I didn't know who Naomi Harris or Bernice were before Skyfall and Skyfall is the only film I have seen them in. For a full year we've had Bond girl this and bond girl that in the media - and then Bernice is only in it for 5 mins and i didn't even think she was all that either. I found Eve's character annoying and I didn't feel any sexual chemistry with DC at all, the shave scene, crap - and I thought i'm glad she's a Bond gilr as she'll be in this movie and i'll never see her again - now she turns out to be Moneypenny and i'll have to see her again. If she was crap in the field i don't know how brilliant she will be at a desk job. But all this wasn't cos she was black white or brown, just didn't feel the role. Otherwise liked the Leiter by Jeffery in CR and QOS. That would be something if Quarrel was a white guy or an Asian!
...the fact that moneypenny is a black girl? I'm no racsist (otherwise i would be living in the wrong part of town ) ) but i think it's just incorrect. I had the same with felix leiter a few years ago, but now again... is this positive discrimination? Does anyone know why they chose her (probably because they thought she was a good actress, but does anyone have any good information to share)?
Utterly outrageous! You say you are not a racist, and yet you don't want black people playing these roles.
Pah...racism isn't a problem for the racist now is it?
Just throwing it out there: I am not bothered in the least by a black Moneypenny nor a black Felix Leiter, and would actually advocate the idea of a black 007 for that matter. Idris Elba, guys!
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
M can be a woman, Eve and Felix can be black, Q can be a kid, and so on. I think its great that the series has adjusted to a more seemingly judgmentally blind casting hand when it comes to issues unrelated to the talent or fair portrayal of the supporting roles around Craig.
I wasn't familiar with Felix (that I could recall) when I saw CR and I thought he was fantastic, regardless of race. I thought nothing at all of race when the idea of Moneypenny being played by Harris came up. Not sure why, but I just didn't get why not? The role was open for fresh talent and that's what she brought.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
BluntInstrumentA little plane tree'd squarePosts: 7MI6 Agent
I have a lot of time for Idris Elba - being a fellow Londoner and Arsenal fan, to boot - but he just isn't Bond.
And that has nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of his skin, but everything to do with his acting ability (or lack thereof). That's the most important consideration, isn't it?
‘I've got a little itch, down there. Would you mind?’
...the fact that moneypenny is a black girl? I'm no racsist (otherwise i would be living in the wrong part of town ) ) but i think it's just incorrect. I had the same with felix leiter a few years ago, but now again... is this positive discrimination? Does anyone know why they chose her (probably because they thought she was a good actress, but does anyone have any good information to share)?
Utterly outrageous! You say you are not a racist, and yet you don't want black people playing these roles.
Pah...racism isn't a problem for the racist now is it?
...the fact that moneypenny is a black girl? I'm no racsist (otherwise i would be living in the wrong part of town ) ) but i think it's just incorrect. I had the same with felix leiter a few years ago, but now again... is this positive discrimination? Does anyone know why they chose her (probably because they thought she was a good actress, but does anyone have any good information to share)?
You don't like black actors playing felix leiter or eve, but you don't say why....
I'm all for freedom of speech and opinions, but you're not painting yourself in a very good light here.
MG -{
Yeah you're right. I did not argument. I think because it was very logic (to me). But it's just that i'm a big fan of the books. Some things about Bond change, some things you don't want to change. For me, this is a change that I didn't like. Im not saying that i'm right, just an opinion. She is a good actress but I'd rather see her in a different part.
So i don't mean it bad, if it sounds offensive to anyone than I think it's my choice of english..
...the fact that moneypenny is a black girl? I'm no racsist (otherwise i would be living in the wrong part of town ) ) but i think it's just incorrect. I had the same with felix leiter a few years ago, but now again... is this positive discrimination? Does anyone know why they chose her (probably because they thought she was a good actress, but does anyone have any good information to share)?
You say you are not a racist, and yet you don't want black people playing these roles.
Yes that's correct. Two different things. 'you don't want' sounds very hard, I just think it's 'un character'. I hope I argumented my point in my previous post. If not, please tell me.
Not mentioning any names, but some people just don't seem to truly know what racism means. In the OP's defense, they don't want a black person playing a certain CHARACTER. IMO, that is not racist. It's the same as not wanting a female M (not sexist), or not wanting an old AVTAK-esque bond (not ageist). We are talking about a character here, not the right to vote, employment, or anything like that. A character is a fictional form of entertainment. Let's calm down with the PC yeah?
But anyway, for me, a black moneypenny doesn't bother me at all. Neither does a black felix. Or a female M.
However, a black bond is a different story, and would definitely bother me. I've mentioned why before, plus it would be going off-topic, so I'll leave it at that - but as many of us know, it aint racist.
Just my two cents and I hope I've not offended anyone.
Not mentioning any names, but some people just don't seem to truly know what racism means. In the OP's defense, they don't want a black person playing a certain CHARACTER. IMO, that is not racist. It's the same as not wanting a female M (not sexist), or not wanting an old AVTAK-esque bond (not ageist). We are talking about a character here, not the right to vote, employment, or anything like that. A character is a fictional form of entertainment. Let's calm down with the PC yeah?
But anyway, for me, a black moneypenny doesn't bother me at all. Neither does a black felix. Or a female M.
However, a black bond is a different story, and would definitely bother me. I've mentioned why before, plus it would be going off-topic, so I'll leave it at that - but as many of us know, it aint racist.
Just my two cents and I hope I've not offended anyone.
Not mentioning any names, but some people just don't seem to truly know what racism means. In the OP's defense, they don't want a black person playing a certain CHARACTER. IMO, that is not racist. It's the same as not wanting a female M (not sexist), or not wanting an old AVTAK-esque bond (not ageist). We are talking about a character here, not the right to vote, employment, or anything like that. A character is a fictional form of entertainment. Let's calm down with the PC yeah?
But anyway, for me, a black moneypenny doesn't bother me at all. Neither does a black felix. Or a female M.
However, a black bond is a different story, and would definitely bother me. I've mentioned why before, plus it would be going off-topic, so I'll leave it at that - but as many of us know, it aint racist.
Just my two cents and I hope I've not offended anyone.
Jarvio, I for one find it Incredibly offensive that you didn't Offend anyone in your last Post.
I find this offensive. )
That's alright bollock chops, why do ya think I'm still around? To bring balance to the force of course
Now, go put ya knickers on and make me some tea cos in hungry and my gay black butler has taken the day off, the work shy white stick carrying scumbag.
Greetings! You miss me? And by the way - it's Blackleiter (one word). As for my opinion on this subject, there's no need for me to beat a dead horse. Several very astute AJB posters have expressed quite well the way I feel (e.g. Sir Miles, Lexi, my good friend TP), so I'll leave it at that. -{
I think they are doing the right casting choices to update the characters to this time. Q has to be a young computer freak, makes much more sense than having a 50-ish year old fella in a tweed suit. And changing ethnicity of Moneypenny is ok with me, as long as the actress has the right chemistry with Bond, and Naomi Harris really does.
I believe Ian Fleming actually wrote down notes for how a film version of Moneypenny should act. IIRC, they went something like that she should be very attractive, have a witty and flirtacious relationship with Bond but nothing more, and also be very assertive when needed. The first I guess became arguable, the second was certainly adhered to, but the third? Nope. So long as Naomie Harris is able to fit Fleming's rather literal order (which, if you think of it, was one of the very few Fleming elements Cubby and Harry didn't try to adhere to even at first)...and thus far, she has...she works for me as Moneypenny.
Well, we've had a female M, a black Felix Leiter, a young Q, and a blond Bond :v . I see no reason to question the race of Miss Moneypenny; if the actress in the role is capable - she's capable.
And at the risk of ruffling up the notions of Fleming purists, I would still watch a Bond film if they had a bisexual Blofeld; something I would find most entertaining.
"Well, he certainly left with his tails between his legs."
A black Moneypenney? A black Leiter? How about a blond Bond?
Let's face it. This is the 21st century and the enlightened have finally moved the race elephant out of the room. This is not Fleming's Bond as far as the novels go - the Lord Byron looking, scar- faced cold war spy, so why should the other characters be caucasions? This is the producers way of dragging the audience into this century and shaking up the film series. I really like Craig - his take on the role and his acting is right on the mark - but that blond hair and eyebrows dull the effect a lot for me. However, using black actors for those supporting roles is more in line with the Britain of today, just as having a female M. (in real life and on film). As long as the actors are excellent in their roles (and they both are) and have good chemistry with the actor playing Bond, then I have no problem. It was a bit of a transition for me to witness the change for Moneypenney, since it was rolled into the whole change of a new M. and movement back into what looked like the old MI6 HQ. It wasn't until then that I realized that the producers really have rebooted the series entirely and we are entering a new era in the Bond films. Bond is resurrected from the almost dead, Judi Dench is gone, the modern HQ is out (but only temporarily I'm assuming, as
the real building still stands and once the cinematic one is repaired they would move back in), Leiter and Moneypenney are new faces and are black actors, M. is now Fiennes, Bond's Aston is history and his whole past is gone (family's estate, his flat and the car and no mention of May his housekeeper). As much as that might be a lot for some Fleming fans to swallow all at once, they need to absorb it as I have and move on. As long as the stories stay close to Fleming and are well written and well acted and directed, I feel better about the future of the series.
Comments
What's that supposed to mean?!?
Heck, even so-called educated people in so-called enlightened Generation Y are demonstrating such prejudice online that Ohio State University went viral with it. You can see the bigoted tweets collected through this article: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/08/31/website-shines-spotlight-on-osu-students-racism.html
I'm sure nobody on here believes that the world is such a rosy place, particular where racism & bigotry exist. From my point of view, I certainly didn't interpret anything in SF to suggest any sort of 'racial conspiracy' or purposely trying avoid any inter-racial relations. If anything. I just thought Mendes was teasing us with a "did they, or didn't they?" scenario. Perhaps I'm way off the mark - who knows? I guess if some people see this in some other & deeper way, then they have a very different mindset to myself.
Utterly outrageous! You say you are not a racist, and yet you don't want black people playing these roles.
Pah...racism isn't a problem for the racist now is it?
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I wasn't familiar with Felix (that I could recall) when I saw CR and I thought he was fantastic, regardless of race. I thought nothing at all of race when the idea of Moneypenny being played by Harris came up. Not sure why, but I just didn't get why not? The role was open for fresh talent and that's what she brought.
And that has nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of his skin, but everything to do with his acting ability (or lack thereof). That's the most important consideration, isn't it?
Who stepped on your toes today?
I think Idris Elba would make a fine Moneypenny.
Nice touch!
Yeah you're right. I did not argument. I think because it was very logic (to me). But it's just that i'm a big fan of the books. Some things about Bond change, some things you don't want to change. For me, this is a change that I didn't like. Im not saying that i'm right, just an opinion. She is a good actress but I'd rather see her in a different part.
So i don't mean it bad, if it sounds offensive to anyone than I think it's my choice of english..
Yes that's correct. Two different things. 'you don't want' sounds very hard, I just think it's 'un character'. I hope I argumented my point in my previous post. If not, please tell me.
But anyway, for me, a black moneypenny doesn't bother me at all. Neither does a black felix. Or a female M.
However, a black bond is a different story, and would definitely bother me. I've mentioned why before, plus it would be going off-topic, so I'll leave it at that - but as many of us know, it aint racist.
Just my two cents and I hope I've not offended anyone.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Agree with you absolutely 100%
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Couldn't say it better myself -{
But would he be as Good as David Walliams ?
BluntInstrument wrote :
What an Arsenal Fan ? Sadly he has gone down in my eyes.
Jarvio, I for one find it Incredibly offensive that you didn't Offend anyone in your last Post.
I find this offensive.
That's alright bollock chops, why do ya think I'm still around? To bring balance to the force of course
Now, go put ya knickers on and make me some tea cos in hungry and my gay black butler has taken the day off, the work shy white stick carrying scumbag.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Well, can't please everyone I guess
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
And at the risk of ruffling up the notions of Fleming purists, I would still watch a Bond film if they had a bisexual Blofeld; something I would find most entertaining.
Let's face it. This is the 21st century and the enlightened have finally moved the race elephant out of the room. This is not Fleming's Bond as far as the novels go - the Lord Byron looking, scar- faced cold war spy, so why should the other characters be caucasions? This is the producers way of dragging the audience into this century and shaking up the film series. I really like Craig - his take on the role and his acting is right on the mark - but that blond hair and eyebrows dull the effect a lot for me. However, using black actors for those supporting roles is more in line with the Britain of today, just as having a female M. (in real life and on film). As long as the actors are excellent in their roles (and they both are) and have good chemistry with the actor playing Bond, then I have no problem. It was a bit of a transition for me to witness the change for Moneypenney, since it was rolled into the whole change of a new M. and movement back into what looked like the old MI6 HQ. It wasn't until then that I realized that the producers really have rebooted the series entirely and we are entering a new era in the Bond films. Bond is resurrected from the almost dead, Judi Dench is gone, the modern HQ is out (but only temporarily I'm assuming, as
the real building still stands and once the cinematic one is repaired they would move back in), Leiter and Moneypenney are new faces and are black actors, M. is now Fiennes, Bond's Aston is history and his whole past is gone (family's estate, his flat and the car and no mention of May his housekeeper). As much as that might be a lot for some Fleming fans to swallow all at once, they need to absorb it as I have and move on. As long as the stories stay close to Fleming and are well written and well acted and directed, I feel better about the future of the series.