Coronavirus

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  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,377MI6 Agent
    While I agree tat banks have been treated much better than what they deserve - imo it would have been catastrophic if they‘d really failed in 2008 collectively.

    Just imagine a total collapse, all your bank assets are null, people lining up and demanding their money back and so on.

    What really makes me upset is that so many countries are continuously weakening the stringent measures that this will not happen again because they focus on stock markets and nothing else.

    In particular the current resident in the White House practically erased out the ( far too mild) rules for the financial markets that have been set up by his predecessor.

    So - as always it‘s easy to call the bailout in 2008 being socialism - but those keyboard warriors with their limited focus and intellect are just like that - as they don‘t need to carry the horrible consequences of the much more painful alternative plans.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,119MI6 Agent
    0073 wrote:
    [IMHO banks should face realistic business risks, it is the only way to avoid crisis like the subprime debacle of 2008. The fear of losing money would keep them in check.

    Sadly the reality of this is that banks are no longer willing to lend money, making it incredibly hard for anyone to get a mortgage or a business loan.

    Even with the British Goverment bankrolled the Corninavirus Business Loan scheme - which effectively mean that the banks took no personal risk whatsoever - they were still unwilling to lend, until shamed into doing so by Boris Johnson and the Government.
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    edited September 2020
    Higgins wrote:
    So - as always it‘s easy to call the bailout in 2008 being socialism - but those keyboard warriors with their limited focus and intellect are just like that - as they don‘t need to carry the horrible consequences of the much more painful alternative plans.

    Let's take Greece as an example: if Greece had been allowed to default back in 2009-2010, then Deutsche Bank and probably Credit Lyonnais would have also gone under. The ripple effect would have gone around the world. It would have been a major crisis on top of the subprime crisis of 2008 and German and French societies would have been hit the hardest, but Dutch, Belgian, British etc. would have taken a hit. People still question the logic of bailing out Greece, but it wasn't Greece that was being bailed out, it was the European private financial institutions, banks.

    Funny thing is: the political left has also called it rampant capitalism... :)) :)) :))
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    edited September 2020

    Sadly the reality of this is that banks are no longer willing to lend money, making it incredibly hard for anyone to get a mortgage or a business loan.

    Even with the British Goverment bankrolled the Corninavirus Business Loan scheme - which effectively mean that the banks took no personal risk whatsoever - they were still unwilling to lend, until shamed into doing so by Boris Johnson and the Government.

    Banks are rational operators on the market, if the reward is less than (perceived) risks, they will hold on to the money. This is something that has been discussed here in Finland quite a lot: Should banks lend money to failing businesses. As long as banks get better return on their investment by lending their money to ECB, they will not lend it to private operators, be they businesses or citizen. If ECB would charge a negative interest on the money on ECB instruments, then banks would have a real incentive to find clients on the private market.

    IMHO the government really should refrain from making business decisions on behalf of any privately operated business. Here in Finland 2 large corporations just announced of major cuts and the cabinet ministers started immediately screaming bloody murder. It's a funny thing when a lifelong leftist politician turns into an expert on corporate finance/restructuring when it suits them.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    I think post 962 proves my point about champagne socialists only the rich
    with money to lose needed the Banks bailed out. The rest of us " The working poor "
    had nothing to lose. we had no shares or savings, yet we had to take on the Debt of
    the Banks.
    Then again that is socialism just like capitalism the rich get richer and the poor ....
    ... well who cares about the poor, Except when there's an election on....... or you
    want to virtue signal :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    I think post 962 proves my point about champagne socialists only the rich
    with money to lose needed the Banks bailed out. The rest of us " The working poor "
    had nothing to lose. we had no shares or savings, yet we had to take on the Debt of
    the Banks.
    Then again that is socialism just like capitalism the rich get richer and the poor ....
    ... well who cares about the poor, Except when there's an election on....... or you
    want to virtue signal :D

    Yeah, nothing to lose except the jobs that would have been lost when the companies having funds/financing from the failing banks would have gone under.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    So no company has every been bought by another company when things go bad !
    Wow!! I WONDER how those countries
    Who Didn't bail out their banks are doing ........ why look, they seem to be doing fine :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    So no company has every been bought by another company when things go bad !
    Wow!! I WONDER how those countries
    Who Didn't bail out their banks are doing ........ why look, they seem to be doing fine :D

    And which country would that be?
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,119MI6 Agent
    0073 wrote:
    Banks are rational operators on the market, if the reward is less than (perceived) risks, they will hold on to the money. This is something that has been discussed here in Finland quite a lot: Should banks lend money to failing businesses.

    I don't think that individuals wishing to buy a house count as 'failing businesses', nor successful businesses affected by Covid19.
    0073 wrote:
    IMHO the government really should refrain from making business decisions on behalf of any privately operated business.

    The British Government, for all its many faults, offered to provide a loan to businesses to help them through - the loan needs to be repaid in due course - a laudable approach which IMO doesn't count as making decisions on behalf of businesses. Bearing in mind the systemic collapse which would have resulted in the widespread fallout of Covid19, which affected almost every business, I'm glad they didn't take a less humane approach.
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    Just off the top of my head
    From memory Canada, Australia and
    Iceland, but I'm sure a Google search
    Will reveal others.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,298MI6 Agent
    Canada's banks were in no danger of failing in 2008 because we never deregulated the mortgage industry as had been done in the United States, thanks for asking.

    Since you want to see what happens when banks are allowed to fail, why don't you do a Google search on the year 1929?
    or better yet talk about Coronavirus, the topic of the thread?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    I wasn't the one who started the conversation about the banks
    And socialism .... you might want
    To do a search on your facts before
    Blaming others 8-)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    edited September 2020
    I wasn't the one who started the conversation about the banks
    And socialism .... you might want
    To do a search on your facts before
    Blaming others 8-)

    Now, now, don't take it personally. This has been fun and insightful, if a bit off topic. Although it is good for me to say, being in large part faulty of the off topic conversation here. So lets take it back to topic with this last parting shot on the banks and Iceland not bailing out banks: 2008–2011 Icelandic financial crisis. Do a G-search, you might find it interesting. If you can't be bothered, here's the gen:" Iceland's systemic banking collapse was the largest experienced by any country in economic history. The crisis led to a severe economic depression in 2008–2010 and significant political unrest."... "The equity in all three new banks was supplied by the Icelandic government, and amounted to 30% of Iceland's GDP. The new banks will also have to reimburse their predecessors for the net value of the transferred assets, as determined by "recognised appraisers". As of 14 November 2008, these net values were estimated as: NBI ISK558.1bn (€3.87bn), Nýi Glitnir ISK442.4bn (€2.95bn); Nýja Kaupþing ISK172.3bn (€1.14bn). The total debt of 1173 billion krónur is more than 90% of Iceland's 2007 gross domestic product." ... "The rescue operations of the central bank along with the restructuring and recapitalization of the banks increased the public debt ratio by about 20 percentage points of GDP."
    So Icelandic government did not bail out the banks, this is true, but went straight to the core of socialism, and nationalized the banks. Which in the end probably (I'm guessing here, I have no competence to really make an estimation) ended up costing the
    taxpayers more, than just straight bail out money.

    Aand back to the topic: The scare in Finland currently is: what happens to the ice hockey season, 3 teams are already in quarantine after pre-season friendlies.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    This weekend I saw people wearing face masks for the first time during the Age of Corona - three of them!
    This weekend was also my first visit to a town since corona started (and it was a town close to the Swedish border), so this probably goes some way towards explaining my lack of mask exposure.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,084Chief of Staff
    I live in a small village, and everyone here is very mask-conscious when going into shops, etc. Having a car, I can't speak for how things are in busses and trains.
    It's strongly expected that tomorrow Nicola Sturgeon will announce tougher measures- there are plenty guesses but we don't know what they are for sure.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    I just saw the prognosis for the UK and it looks really bad. I wish everyone the best.
    Here face masks are only reccomeded for travel in buses and other situations where there are crowds in small places. I guess it's because this country is less densly populated than most and the level of infections have been relatively low so far.
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    In Finland we have this thing called "Pesäpallo" (if not familiar, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lTt-yVfYGM IMHO it's a stupid game, played in the boonies here in Fin, invented by Mr Tahko Pihkala, who after sucking in Baseball altered the rules to make it easier.) Anyways, Pesäpallo finals are in full swing ( 8-) ) and people in the stands pay not attention what so ever to the social distancing guidelines, nor are they wearing masks. The town Sotkamo, where they played yesterday, is "to the left from the middle of fxxxxxg nowhere". So the news cycle was not about pesäpallo, but about 'rona guidelines...
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    @Number24: How do you see the situation in Oslo? Dagbladet seems to think it's getting worse. https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/alle-bydeler-i-oslo-er-rode/72865205
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    I see the situation in Oslo as serious, but not out of control. All the districts of the capital have more than 20 infected per 100 000 inhabitants and threee districts have more than 100 infected per 100 000 people. But the number of new cases has dropped by a third since Thursday to Sunday from 68 to 22. Compared to many other countries and cities this is mild.
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 855MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    I see the situation in Oslo as serious, but not out of control. All the districts of the capital have more than 20 infected per 100 000 inhabitants and threee districts have more than 100 infected per 100 000 people. But the number of new cases has dropped by a third since Thursday to Sunday from 68 to 22. Compared to many other countries and cities this is mild.

    Seems to be going in better direction. Finland had yesterday 66 new registered cases. Greater Helsinki area is now at 19,3/100K where as in the central Finland, Jyväskylä area it's 41,9/100K.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,377MI6 Agent
    I loved how Dr. Fauci gave Rand Paul a well deserved spanking yesterday!
    You‘d better get your facts straight before criticizing Dr. Fauci ;)
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Dr. Fauci gave Rand Paul


    Dr. Fauchi for president! :D

    Joking aside: the US is very fortunate to have Dr. Fauchi in this difficult time.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/

    Revealed: Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in firm contracted to develop vaccines :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 1,817MI6 Agent
    I was mightily annoyed to find the toilet roll aisle at my local supermarket complete stripped of all stock yesterday.. Seriously..!! X-(
    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    I wonder if any of the members here or their families are infected by Covid-19? I hope not, and if they are ill I wish them a speedy recovery :)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    What is all the panic over toilet rolls ?
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 17,766MI6 Agent
    What is all the panic over toilet rolls ?

    Yes ... how exactly do they think the infection spreads? :o
  • The Spy Who Never DiesThe Spy Who Never Dies UKPosts: 642MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    What is all the panic over toilet rolls ?

    Yes ... how exactly do they think the infection spreads? :o


    When we first had the panic shopping back in March, our local Tesco ran out of washing up liquid! Not a bottle to be found!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    What are British people doing with all that washing up liquid and toilet paper ?
    I feel a conspiracy or constipation coming on ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • The Spy Who Never DiesThe Spy Who Never Dies UKPosts: 642MI6 Agent
    Flour was like gold dust too. Smaller shops were putting the prices up for flour and some were overcharging for toilet rolls.

    And what does toilet roll, washing up liquid and flour make?? Paper mache :)) :))

    Should we be worried?
This discussion has been closed.