Are there any truly divisive EON Bond films?

Are there any films in the Bond canon which have separated Bond fans into different camps?

I can think of MR (for its extreme outlandishness) and LTK (for its brutality).

Any others?

Comments

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    NTTD is definitely divisive due to its ending.

    OHMSS is divisive due to the Lazenby factor. Either the film is awesome because of (or in spite of) Lazenby or it's unwatchable because of Lazenby.

    MR is divisive due to its over-the-to nature. Either people can't get into it and write it off as 'too camp' or people dial into its wavelength and enjoy it for being as out there as it is.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 386MI6 Agent


    I'd argue Quantum of Solace is divisive as well. Its stylistic choices- such as its frenetic pace and lack of Bond glamour- can be viewed equally as bold and gritty, or as derivative and boring.

    "The spectre of defeat..."

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,426Chief of Staff

    Sir Miles and I have been arguing about that for years. 14 years. So there's divisive right there.

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    OHMSS

    MR

    LTK

    QoS

    NTTD

    Although I think you'll find each and every Bond film can be divisive in some way. For example, I know AVTAK is well down the list for many fans, but for some, and I think it's fair to say a minority, it's their favourite Bond film. And good for them! Each to their own. That's what makes it all so much fun.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • MI6_HeadquartersMI6_Headquarters Posts: 37MI6 Agent
    edited June 29

    Based on each opinions of fans and general public:


    1. No Time To Die - definitely divisive due to the ending, Bond being a daddy, and Safin as the villain, some liked it for the emotional factor, the story and Craig's portrayal of the character.

    2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service - divisive because of Lazenby, the brainwashing plot and some parts of the editing, some liked it for the romance, the beautiful cinematography, the story, the supporting casts especially Diana Rigg, it being faithful to the source material and the emotional factor.

    3. License To Kill - divisive due to the 80's style of plot involving drugs, the TV movie look and Timothy Dalton himself, some liked it because of the gritty tone, the film having that Flemingesque style, action scenes, and Timothy Dalton himself.

    4. Moonraker - divisive due to it being a cash in to Star Wars success, it being different from the source material, and over the top campiness, some enjoyed it for being entertaining and fun.

    5. Quantum Of Solace - divisive due to it being Bourne like style of Bond film, the editing, the plot and the villain, and the fact that it occurred during writer's strike, some liked it for being serious, gritty and Craig's performance.

    6. SkyFall - divisive due to the third act being like a rip off of Home Alone, the plot and Silva as the villain, some liked it for the cinematography, the story between M and Bond, the performance of the casts.

    7. The World Is Not Enough - divisive due to the plot, the handling of Renard, the tone and style and Denise Richards, some liked it for the emotional factor and Elektra King twist.

    Ranking of Ian Fleming Novels/Books

    1. Moonraker 2. Casino Royale 3. From Russia With Love 4. Thunderball 5. You Only Live Twice 6. Dr. No 7. Diamonds Are Forever 8. Goldfinger 9. Live And Let Die 10. On Her Majesty's Secret Service 11. The Spy Who Loved Me 12. The Man With The Golden Gun

    Ranking the Short Stories:

    1. The Living Daylights 2. From A View To A Kill 3. For Your Eyes Only 4. The Hildebrand Rarity 5. Risico 6. Quantum Of Solace 7. Octopussy

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,632Chief of Staff

    Not so much arguing as educating you πŸ˜‰

    YNWA 97
    Currently Head of Station C: Canada πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,426Chief of Staff

    Well, it's certainly in a class by itself.....

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,426Chief of Staff
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,426Chief of Staff

    I have to disagree, N24. While it is my personal favourite Brosnan performance (I could go on at length as to why, and I'm sure I have done elsewhere) I've seen many members diss this one. The main weakness I see is Denise Richards, and this is balanced by Sophie Marceau's excellent performance. Being sentimental I love Q's last turn. Many dislike the action sequences, while I think they're just fine.

  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,699MI6 Agent
    edited June 29

    DAF is possibly divisive - with the caveat that sometimes it feels as if lovers of it (speaking as one of them) are an out-on-a-limb minority.

    Where other Bond movies are divisive - those already listed - I usually come down on the side of liking them for what they are, or for what they're trying to do, though not quite always...

    Any time I sit down to watch QOS I work hard to stabilise my sense of the great movie which I feel is somewhere in there, despite all the flaws... but I invariably end up feeling as if it'll take another viewing before I'll succeed in finding it... and another... and another....

    NTTD has brought about the greatest 'swing' in my reaction to it... from initially favourable, to a loss of patience with its eventually overwrought plot, writing and finale. In that sense, it's 'divided' me, so to speak; but my feelings about it now have resolved in the more critical camp.

    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 50 years.
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    NTTD is a really tough one for me. I love lots of it; Matera, Jamaica, Cuba, Safin's Lair, The V8, Cinematography, Soundtrack, DC's performance (for a lot of the film). This could have made it into my Top 10. But the huge plot holes, daddy Bond and his ultimate demise, means it is potentially at No. 25.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,679MI6 Agent

    Since the invention of internet forums, they all seem divisive 😁

  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,842Chief of Staff

    You could argue ANY Daniel Craig film is divisive, simply because it has Daniel Craig. I'm amazed how many people hated him from the day he was chosen to play Bond until now. In fact, I was one of those who was initially appalled by his casting and swore I'd never see one of his films ... but when footage of CR began coming out and the buzz was pretty good, I went to see the film, was won over, and admitted I was wrong. Yet I've had people with long memories accuse ME of being a hypocrite for going back on my word to boycott Craig!

    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent


    It's ok to change your mind/re-evaluate. I remember the outcry back in 1988 when Michael Keaton was announced to be playing Batman. When the movie came out and he knocked it out of the park, people changed their minds. The fact that his return to the role is happening in the upcoming FLASH movie (which reportedly is testing through the roof) tells you all you need to know about how he's regarded now. Same with Craig now.

    This hasn't always worked out. There was an outcry when Tom Hanks was cast in BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES and, while he's not the biggest problem in the film, he's definitely a casting error. John Wayne as Genghis Khan? Sofia Coppola as Mary Corleone? Colin Farrell as Alexander the Great? You never know.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent

    Are you suggesting people are allowed to change their opinions bases on new information?! 🀯

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent


    I know, perish the thought. It's funny how many people I know who will stubbornly refuse to change an opinion when the facts forming that opinion have changed.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent

    But I liked my old opinions so much ..... 😟

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent
    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent
    edited July 15

    Everyone who agreed with me said my opinions were great. I don't see why I have to change them just because of the pesky new facts ....

  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,570MI6 Agent

    Many others were like you. I feel like I'm the only one who is the opposite of this. I thought he deserved a chance when he was announced. I thought it was ridiculous to hate an actor we hadn't seen play James Bond, and I saw no reason behind it. But then after seeing him play Bond I just couldn't get on board with him. My ranking of the Craig films is generally the opposite of Craig fans, with Casino Royale and Skyfall at the bottom! So they're all divisive!

    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,545MI6 Agent

    Having seen Layer Cake, I saw the potential of DC as Bond and went to see CR with an open mind. I loved the film and thought DC was excellent, even if not what I was used to as Bond. QoS was a bit of disappointment, but not particularly because of DC (and I have since come to like this film a lot more). Skyfall still had me, Spectre less so, by NTTD I was over DC's Bond and the storylines. He has gone from being one of my favourite Bonds at the time of CR and QoS to one of my least favourite now. That's not down to his acting, he's a solid - if not remarkable - actor, but down to the DC Bond character. Normally that would be down to the writers, director and producer, but as we know that DC was heavily involved in character development and storylines, it's as much - if not more - down to DC as to anyone else involved in the DC flms.

  • Unknown007Unknown007 Posts: 186MI6 Agent

    I would say On Her Majestys Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever, Licence To Kill would be the most devisive Bond Movies of the Series, Live and Let Die - not sure about............

  • MI6_HeadquartersMI6_Headquarters Posts: 37MI6 Agent

    Same about Craig here, I liked him as an actor but it's his films which I'm not a fan of, the only Bond film from his era that I'm fond of is Skyfall, but, still not big on it like the others, still prefer the classic films.

    Ranking of Ian Fleming Novels/Books

    1. Moonraker 2. Casino Royale 3. From Russia With Love 4. Thunderball 5. You Only Live Twice 6. Dr. No 7. Diamonds Are Forever 8. Goldfinger 9. Live And Let Die 10. On Her Majesty's Secret Service 11. The Spy Who Loved Me 12. The Man With The Golden Gun

    Ranking the Short Stories:

    1. The Living Daylights 2. From A View To A Kill 3. For Your Eyes Only 4. The Hildebrand Rarity 5. Risico 6. Quantum Of Solace 7. Octopussy

  • AugustWalkerAugustWalker Posts: 828MI6 Agent

    DC had the potential to be a really great Bond. But:

    1) he was Bond for 16 years and only did 5 movies, meaning for the most of the time he was just the actor currently cast as 007

    2) no clear intention of where they wanted to go with the character. In CR and QoS he was a tough action man and beginning with SF to the end, it was all about drama and personal suffering…

    3) he had way to much control over the franchise, which ultimately led to the death of the character.

    4) the producers don‘t seem to be as invested in the series as 20 years ago…the 40th anniversary was a fest!

    The name is Walker by the way.

    IG: @thebondarchives
    Check it out, you won’t be disappointed :)
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    I'll totally agree that it's ridiculous that we only got 5 Bond films in the 16 year Craig run.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • StardustSoldierStardustSoldier Posts: 13MI6 Agent

    There's a few films that are generally well-liked by most Bond fans, such as Connery's first three and The Spy Who Loved Me, etc. But beyond that, I feel there's probably more films that are at least somewhat divisive than ones that aren't, as it's such a long-running series with multiple leading actors, and fans can have wildly differing opinions on what they do and don't like.

    On the topic of Connery, I've been kind of surprised to discover that Thunderball isn't as popular as his preceding films and I've struggled to understand why. With You Only Live Twice I can kind of see it, but I always thought Thunderball was really solid and just as good as his other films. But, again, other people clearly feel otherwise.

    The Man with the Golden Gun gets a lot of flak, but I always really liked that one. It's not perfect, certainly, but it has some great humour, Scaramanga and Nick Nack are fantastic villains, and it has a great climax with the funhouse duel and having to escape the island before it explodes.

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    I think the main problem that most people have with THUNDERBALL is with the padding. The underwater fight is twice as long as it needs to be.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • StardustSoldierStardustSoldier Posts: 13MI6 Agent

    I guess that would make sense. I've seen Thunderball multiple times and I don't remember that the underwater stuff ever bothered me. But then again, the last time I did see the film was 12-something years ago. Gotta watch the Connery films again sometime soon.

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