No Time To Die

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  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I’ll take “generic Bond title” over some of the atrocities that were tossed about any day. Stuff like of “Genome of a Woman”, or “James Bond” or even “Shatterhand” we’re all absolute rubbish. And although “die” is in the title, which brings obvious comparisons to mind, this title is actuallymuch better than TND or DAD.

    “Shatterhand” = not rubbish.

    P.S. I’ll be in my seat when the movie comes out, regardless of the title. :007)

    The problem with "Shatterhand" is that it sounds like "shat her hand". That's worse than rubbish. If it didn't sound like that I'd like it, and I think it would have been cool to have three consecutive single-word film titles all starting with "S", though I know some here don't care for that idea. It would have made a nice-sounding trilogy. But we don't need a film title about someone taking a sh!t on a Bond girl's hand. The press already have it in for the film.

    “Shat” is not a term I hear very often here in the states, so your reasoning wouldn’t have occurred to me. The main reason I like “Shatterhand” as a title is because it’s compact and unique, and it reminds me of classic one word titles like “Goldfinger” and “Thunderball”. But that’s water under the bridge now. I can get used to “No Time to Die” and if it’s another great Bond film like “Casino Royale”, then all the better because that title will forever be associated with a quality addition to the James Bond franchise. {[]
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • bonded123bonded123 Posts: 291MI6 Agent
    According to The Hollywood Reporter, the original title of Bond 25 was Shatterhand and William Shatner was going to have a role. :p
  • Westward_DriftWestward_Drift Posts: 2,622MI6 Agent
    bonded123 wrote:
    If any film franchise is associated with 'die' it's Die Hard, not James Bond.

    I thought this as well. No Time To Die Hard.
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,098MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    “Shatterhand” = not rubbish.

    P.S. I’ll be in my seat when the movie comes out, regardless of the title. :007)

    The problem with "Shatterhand" is that it sounds like "shat her hand". That's worse than rubbish. If it didn't sound like that I'd like it, and I think it would have been cool to have three consecutive single-word film titles all starting with "S", though I know some here don't care for that idea. It would have made a nice-sounding trilogy. But we don't need a film title about someone taking a sh!t on a Bond girl's hand. The press already have it in for the film.

    “Shat” is not a term I hear very often here in the states, so your reasoning wouldn’t have occurred to me. The main reason I like “Shatterhand” as a title is because it’s compact and unique, and it reminds me of classic one word titles like “Goldfinger” and “Thunderball”. But that’s water under the bridge now. I can get used to “No Time to Die” and if it’s another great Bond film like “Casino Royale”, then all the better because that title will forever be associated with a quality addition to the James Bond franchise. {[]

    I think the issue with Shatterhand is even if you're unaware of the 'shat' expression and don't read it as 'shat her hand', once aware of this connotation (and the internet would have jumped all over this :( ), it's difficult to change the way you read it afterwards.
    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,592MI6 Agent
    Yes, the internet would have murdered Shatterhand. In contrast, NTTD has received a generally positive reception. It’s safe and perhaps a little boring, but I like it. It sounds like a Bond film.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,546MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    “Shatterhand” = not rubbish.

    P.S. I’ll be in my seat when the movie comes out, regardless of the title. :007)

    The problem with "Shatterhand" is that it sounds like "shat her hand". That's worse than rubbish. If it didn't sound like that I'd like it, and I think it would have been cool to have three consecutive single-word film titles all starting with "S", though I know some here don't care for that idea. It would have made a nice-sounding trilogy. But we don't need a film title about someone taking a sh!t on a Bond girl's hand. The press already have it in for the film.

    “Shat” is not a term I hear very often here in the states, so your reasoning wouldn’t have occurred to me. The main reason I like “Shatterhand” as a title is because it’s compact and unique, and it reminds me of classic one word titles like “Goldfinger” and “Thunderball”. But that’s water under the bridge now. I can get used to “No Time to Die” and if it’s another great Bond film like “Casino Royale”, then all the better because that title will forever be associated with a quality addition to the James Bond franchise. {[]

    I am an American too, and while it's a term that I don't hear often (I heard it more when I was a kid 20 years ago), a title like "Shatterhand" would certainly bring it back into use, at least by the less mature among us (or The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/20/no-time-to-die-james-bond-25-title-theories-analysis). But I also agree with the reasons why you like the title. It's just that as I work in marketing I tend to think about what words and images can have unintended connotations.
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  • canoe2canoe2 Posts: 1,755MI6 Agent
    It's a generic title, which has its pros and cons. One benefit is it's easy to translate into other languages. As another member mentioned (sorry, I can't find the exact post), international markets are incredibly important to a film's bottom line.

    Some people I know (non-English speakers) had a hell of a time with Quantum of Solace. It doesn't really translate well, and the "ace" sound doesn't exist as it does in English. So everyone was calling it "Kuantom de Sol Ass Eh"

    Not saying that's the main reason they choose NTTD. But I'd be surprised if it wasn't taken into consideration.
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 295MI6 Agent
    In that proximity? People would lose their minds. And "Licence to Kill" was criticized as a bit unimaginative at the time; the internet would have torn it to pieces. It's the "Jack Reacher" of its day in terms of lazy titles.

    Undoubtedly there would have been some complaints, because the internet is a natural place for them, but there would have been one less thing to complain about than with the case of NTTD, because at least LTK was an actual Bondian phrase, a venerable one tied into the franchise's history, rather than the product of Bond Title Generator. You can't say that about NTTD, unless you think reusing the word "Die" is intrinsically Bondian, rather than beating a dead horse.

    Nor was LTK as basic a title as Jack Reacher, which is nothing more than the name of a character and says nothing about him. I was around back in '89 and was relieved that the filmmakers had found a Flemingian/Bondian phrase deeply appropriate to the series instead of crafting pseudo-Fleming inevitably inferior to the real thing.

    Proximity is also less galling than frequency. I can forgive Fleming for using "Gold" in two titles, but in four I wouldn't. And I have complained in the past that he used Jamaica as a location three times in the books, just as I have complained about the filmmakers hammering "Die" into a cliche.
    bonded123 wrote:
    I think there's something about the word 'die' that Bond fans/writers/ associate with the character and his world but it's a bit of a lazy connection. If any film franchise is associated with 'die' it's Die Hard, not James Bond. No Time To Die is a sign of longevity leading to apathy or creative ennui. After 24 films and close to 60 years of the character the producers and writers can't be bothered to push themselves, no desire to spend time thinking of a different title. "Just stick 'die' in the title, that will do" is their mindset. It's a bit depressing. It's only a title but a title is there forever. If Bond lasts another 60 years Bond 25 will still be NO TIME TO DIE so titles do count for something. You only get one chance to come up with something vaguely fresh or original. One chance to come up with something memorable or different to what has been done before. It's a shame Eon failed to do so.

    Quoted for truth! There is no excuse for an original title to be so generic. It's been five years since the last Bond film--is NTTD really the best the filmmakers could think of during half a decade?
  • HalfMonk HalfHitmanHalfMonk HalfHitman USAPosts: 1,997MI6 Agent
    I like that folks think the delay gave the producers an opportunity to just run a zillion titles up the flagpole for five years. I just can't see them doing that. :))

    And since the plot was ostensibly arrived at maybe a year ago, better that they map a title to a script in hand, rather than the other way around?
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 295MI6 Agent
    I like that folks think the delay gave the producers an opportunity to just run a zillion titles up the flagpole for five years. I just can't see them doing that.
    And since the plot was ostensibly arrived at maybe a year ago, better that they map a title to a script in hand, rather than the other way around?

    Pre-production on the next Bond film usually starts soon after the release of the current one. So yes, scripts and treatments and titles have been worked on during the five year break.
    And since No Time To Die is a generic title that could apply to any Bond film (since practically every Bond villain's scheme needs to be stopped in the nick of time), the second point is irrelevant. Furthermore, surely a better title could have been arrived at during the course of a year.
  • Arbogast777Arbogast777 Minneapolis Posts: 252MI6 Agent
    I like that folks think the delay gave the producers an opportunity to just run a zillion titles up the flagpole for five years. I just can't see them doing that. :))

    And since the plot was ostensibly arrived at maybe a year ago, better that they map a title to a script in hand, rather than the other way around?

    The plot was arrived at a year ago even though Fukunaga didn't come in until late September? That would mean NTTD is using Boyle's idea...
  • CheverianCheverian Posts: 1,209MI6 Agent
    The reality is that titles are incredibly hard. And sometimes the best you can do is avoid a truly awful one. I guarantee you that there were suits in Hollywood arguing that the word "rise" should be in the title because every other movie today is contractually obligated to include it.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,546MI6 Agent
    Cheverian wrote:
    The reality is that titles are incredibly hard. And sometimes the best you can do is avoid a truly awful one. I guarantee you that there were suits in Hollywood arguing that the word "rise" should be in the title because every other movie today is contractually obligated to include it.

    Good point. Good thing we didn't get "Rise of 007" or "Rise of Blofeld". Like "No Time to Die", many Bond titles are interchangeable. Sometimes it's just a Fleming title with no relation to the film, like TSWLM or AVTAK (an altered Fleming title). LALD, FYEO and TLD are like NTTD in that they don't have any specific significance to the stories.
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  • AugustWalkerAugustWalker Posts: 788MI6 Agent
    I really like the title. It’s basically „Die Another Day“ in other words and holds up pretty well with the franchise.

    The only thing I think could be improved is the font. Whilst not being opposed to it, it would look even better if it were in the style of the „Everything or Nothing“-Design from the videogame.

    Some people on here are disappointed with it, but rather than just moaning about it, maybe obe could give us their best shot instead ?:)
    The name is Walker by the way.

    IG: @thebondarchives
    Check it out, you won’t be disappointed :)
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,600MI6 Agent
    I like that folks think the delay gave the producers an opportunity to just run a zillion titles up the flagpole for five years. I just can't see them doing that. :))

    And since the plot was ostensibly arrived at maybe a year ago, better that they map a title to a script in hand, rather than the other way around?

    The plot was arrived at a year ago even though Fukunaga didn't come in until late September? That would mean NTTD is using Boyle's idea...

    IMO, most likely not the Hodge/Boyle script. My guess is (and this may have been reported) that they went back to P&W's script with Fukunaga doing a major re-write, then a polish by Scott Z. Burns and another punch up by Phoebe Waller-Bridge. I wouldn't rule out that there are some ideas or remnants of the Hodge/Boyle script in NTTD but the vast majority would be from P&W and Fukunaga, with an assist from Burns, and Waller-Bridge.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent

    Some people on here are disappointed with it, but rather than just moaning about it, maybe obe could give us their best shot instead

    I really hate this argument. It's irrelevant if others can think of a better title because they are not working on the film.

    Also, just about every suggestion I've seen has been better than this title anyway :))

    Still though, I'm hoping to warm to the title if it plays into the plot like I described in my earlier post.
    1 - LALD, 2 - OP, 3 - AVTAK, 4 - LTK, 5 - FYEO, 6 - NTTD, 7 - DN, 8 - TSWLM, 9 - SF, 10 - DAF, 11 - GE, 12 - OHMSS, 13 - MR, 14 - TMWTGG, 15 - YOLT, 16 - TLD, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - TND, 21 - SP, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • AugustWalkerAugustWalker Posts: 788MI6 Agent
    Jarvio wrote:

    Some people on here are disappointed with it, but rather than just moaning about it, maybe obe could give us their best shot instead

    I really hate this argument. It's irrelevant if others can think of a better title because they are not working on the film.


    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    I get that this is only a movie title, but still would like to hear what „those“ people would have rather liked to have been announced. Solely out of curiosity not argumentative-seeking.
    The name is Walker by the way.

    IG: @thebondarchives
    Check it out, you won’t be disappointed :)
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    edited August 2019
    Jarvio wrote:

    Some people on here are disappointed with it, but rather than just moaning about it, maybe obe could give us their best shot instead

    I really hate this argument. It's irrelevant if others can think of a better title because they are not working on the film.


    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    I get that this is only a movie title, but still would like to hear what „those“ people would have rather liked to have been announced. Solely out of curiosity not argumentative-seeking.

    Like I said, many better titles have been thrown out there.

    Which is why I hate the whole "let's see them do better" argument - because in their opinion, they HAVE done better.
    1 - LALD, 2 - OP, 3 - AVTAK, 4 - LTK, 5 - FYEO, 6 - NTTD, 7 - DN, 8 - TSWLM, 9 - SF, 10 - DAF, 11 - GE, 12 - OHMSS, 13 - MR, 14 - TMWTGG, 15 - YOLT, 16 - TLD, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - TND, 21 - SP, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • Enjoying DeathEnjoying Death Toronto, ON CANADAPosts: 1,139MI6 Agent
    You mention better titles out there.

    What were they?
    Jarvio wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:

    I really hate this argument. It's irrelevant if others can think of a better title because they are not working on the film.


    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    I get that this is only a movie title, but still would like to hear what „those“ people would have rather liked to have been announced. Solely out of curiosity not argumentative-seeking.

    Like I said, many better titles have been thrown out there.

    Which is why I hate the whole "let's see them do better" argument - because in their opinion, they HAVE done better.
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  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    edited August 2019
    You mention better titles out there.

    What were they?
    Jarvio wrote:


    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    I get that this is only a movie title, but still would like to hear what „those“ people would have rather liked to have been announced. Solely out of curiosity not argumentative-seeking.

    Like I said, many better titles have been thrown out there.

    Which is why I hate the whole "let's see them do better" argument - because in their opinion, they HAVE done better.

    Out of the actual rumoured titles:
    A Reason To Die
    Eclipse
    Shatterhand

    So that's basically all of them, except Genoma Of A Woman.

    And then there's tonnes of other titles suggested by members, and/or Fleming titles and the like. These may not have relevance to the film though, but:
    The Garden Of Death
    The Death Collector
    Risico
    The Property Of A Lady
    The Hildebrand Rarity

    And I could keep going. But we need to know the context of the film, of course.

    C'mon man, do you seriously think there are no titles out there that are better than "No Time To Die"? :/

    It's all opinion, and of course we need to know the context of the film, but in many people's opinions there are many other options that would be better than NTTD.

    Note that we do not know the context of the film, so titles like The Garden Of Death might not be relevant if the garden isn't in this film for example. We need to know the context of the film, something only the makers have true, full access to. And yet you think the generic NTTD is better than anything else? If that's really your opinion that's cool, but we have ours too.

    As I said, NTTD might improve for me when I see the film and know the context.
    1 - LALD, 2 - OP, 3 - AVTAK, 4 - LTK, 5 - FYEO, 6 - NTTD, 7 - DN, 8 - TSWLM, 9 - SF, 10 - DAF, 11 - GE, 12 - OHMSS, 13 - MR, 14 - TMWTGG, 15 - YOLT, 16 - TLD, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - TND, 21 - SP, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,898Quartermasters
    I'm still - stubbornly, granted! - a fan of The Death Collector as a title. Of course, that's only been thrown about on fansites such as this, and doesn't carry the undeniable gravitas of The [Ambiguous Biological Whatsis] of a Woman….
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  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    I'm still - stubbornly, granted! - a fan of The Death Collector as a title. Of course, that's only been thrown about on fansites such as this, and doesn't carry the undeniable gravitas of The [Ambiguous Biological Whatsis] of a Woman….

    I like it too. Though The Garden Of Death would be my preference.

    Anyway, even though NTTD is not a title that excites me, I will still gladly go and watch it with delight that James Bond is finally back. The film might be excellent, and the title might improve after we know the context. But for now, we are all allowed to not like the title if we want. Titles are so important IMO. They give the films their own unique identity. And as someone said, they're there forever.

    But hey, Bond is back, and for that I am excited.
    1 - LALD, 2 - OP, 3 - AVTAK, 4 - LTK, 5 - FYEO, 6 - NTTD, 7 - DN, 8 - TSWLM, 9 - SF, 10 - DAF, 11 - GE, 12 - OHMSS, 13 - MR, 14 - TMWTGG, 15 - YOLT, 16 - TLD, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - TND, 21 - SP, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 295MI6 Agent
    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    You don't have to have a pre-existing title in mind to be dissatisfied with the one we actually got. Nor do you have to do the job of the writers or producers by picking a better title--they're being paid to be more creative than us. Many people in this thread have already pointed out exactly what they disliked about the title--they're not obligated to go beyond this by doing someone else's job.
  • ThunderbucketThunderbucket Posts: 3MI6 Agent
    My favourite titles are the ones taken from a phrase and sometimes toyed with a little; like Live and Let Die, You Only Live Twice, The Living Daylights or Devil May Care from Sebastian Faulks.
    In fact the newer novels have some great titles like Colonel Sun, Icebreaker and Carte Blanche, which echoes Casino Royale. Maybe they should have gone with something French like Raison d'Etre or Soup du Jour.
  • AugustWalkerAugustWalker Posts: 788MI6 Agent
    Revelator wrote:
    Actually working on the film has got nothing to do with it. But instead of merely bashing something one should always make the effort of trying to improve it.

    You don't have to have a pre-existing title in mind to be dissatisfied with the one we actually got. Nor do you have to do the job of the writers or producers by picking a better title--they're being paid to be more creative than us. Many people in this thread have already pointed out exactly what they disliked about the title--they're not obligated to go beyond this by doing someone else's job.


    Please spare me the „we don‘t have to do the writer‘s job“-argument. After all, this is a fan forum with all of us being Bond aficionados. So we all should find great pleasure in doing exactly that - discussing things...

    Like I said above, I would have been interested in a discussion and loved to have heard some individual title suggestions that go beyond just being repetitions of Fleming‘s titles like Shatterhand or The Hildebrand Rarity.

    Of course one could simply say that he isn’t satisfied with it. I was just asking if maybe the had a different title already in mind.

    Sadly, all I got at this point is „I don‘t work on the film“ and „I don‘t have to do that, I‘m not a paid writer“.
    The name is Walker by the way.

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    Check it out, you won’t be disappointed :)
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 295MI6 Agent
    Please spare me the „we don‘t have to do the writer‘s job“-argument.

    Oh, so we do? I wonder what the writers are paid for then.
    After all, this is a fan forum with all of us being Bond aficionados. So we all should find great pleasure in doing exactly that - discussing things...

    Yes, and in case you haven't noticed, the title has been discussed, and various people who didn't like it explained what they thought was wrong with it. They're not further obligated to come up with a replacement title to please you. Nor do they need to have a preferred title in mind in order to criticize the current one. In any case, there are already very long threads on this site containing potential titles for Bond films, if you're really thirsty for that.
  • AugustWalkerAugustWalker Posts: 788MI6 Agent
    Revelator wrote:
    Oh, so we do? I wonder what the writers are paid for then.

    Silly argument really...

    Revelator wrote:
    Yes, and in case you haven't noticed, the title has been discussed, and various people who didn't like it explained what they thought was wrong with it. They're not further obligated to come up with a replacement title to please you. Nor do they need to have a preferred title in mind in order to criticize the current one. In any case, there are already very long threads on this site containing potential titles for Bond films, if you're really thirsty for that.

    I really don't know why you're getting so hostile? All I was asking for was further titles (aside the usual ones) people would have found better than NTTD.
    The name is Walker by the way.

    IG: @thebondarchives
    Check it out, you won’t be disappointed :)
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,736Chief of Staff
    Take this to PMs, please, guys.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    I really don't know why you're getting so hostile? All I was asking for was further titles (aside the usual ones) people would have found better than NTTD.

    Like I said, many titles have been suggested. But also, we can't get full context of the film until we've seen it.

    For example, DAD is also a generic title, and after seeing the film, an alternate title off the top of my head would be "Icarus".

    None of us have seen NTTD so it's kinda hard to relate a title specifically to that film.

    Meanwhile, loads of titles have been suggested by members here and elsewhere online. Are they relevant to the film? We don't know yet.
    1 - LALD, 2 - OP, 3 - AVTAK, 4 - LTK, 5 - FYEO, 6 - NTTD, 7 - DN, 8 - TSWLM, 9 - SF, 10 - DAF, 11 - GE, 12 - OHMSS, 13 - MR, 14 - TMWTGG, 15 - YOLT, 16 - TLD, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - TND, 21 - SP, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • HalfMonk HalfHitmanHalfMonk HalfHitman USAPosts: 1,997MI6 Agent
    Revelator wrote:
    Many people in this thread have already pointed out exactly what they disliked about the title--they're not obligated to go beyond this by doing someone else's job.

    I don't think you're in danger of being taken up on your suggestions of better titles by Eon; I believe the other poster was simply
    encouraging a thought exercise. :))
    Revelator wrote:
    Pre-production on the next Bond film usually starts soon after the release of the current one. So yes, scripts and treatments and titles have been worked on during the five year break.

    And yet, this is what Purvis & Wade were saying as late as 2017. They did not seem to be on the clock by then - “The thing is...I’m just not sure how you would go about writing a James Bond film now. Each time, you’ve got to say something about Bond’s place in the world, which is Britain’s place in the world...with people like Trump, the Bond villain has become a reality. So when they do another one, it will be interesting to see how they deal with the fact that the world has become a fantasy.”
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