I’d rather the films went back to outrageous villains (Dr No, Goldfinger, Blofeld etc.), outrageous lairs (YOLT, TSWLM etc), outrageous stunts (TSWLM, MR etc.) outrageous plots (TB, YOLT, DAF etc.), gorgeous girls (they will always be Bond Girls to me - as in girls night out or boys night out, when referring to adults enjoying an evening out). I don’t want reality, I want two hours of escapism.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
I don't know if this story is very well known by the public, and even if it is we still don't know for sure if actually happened. The script doesn't even have to mention Sarajevo or Bosnia. A line in the script about the villain paying large sums to snipe at civilians in active war zones should be enough to make him absolutely hateable.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,738MI6 Agent
When you put it like that it makes my mind go directly to the Las Vegas Mass Shooting of 2017. War zone or not mass shooting or similar are something writers should stay away from. Only way for something like that to work is for Bond to stop it before it happens. And I mean, don't let it get to the point of it being close to happening. There's other ways to make villains not liked very much.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
Of course I understand and share your feelings about the Las Vegas shooting massacre (and all the other mass shootings happening around the US). But what I suggest and the Vegas shooting are fairly different. Vegas is not a war zone as you mention, Neither was the Vegas shooter not a millionaire who paid to shoot those people. Do you really want there to be a total ban against the mention of civilians getting killed in Bond movies? Because it sounds a bit like you are. If I had suggested a scene where we see lots of civilians getting shot I would understand the pushback I'm getting, but I never said anything of the sort. I only suggested such an event getting mentioned by one of the characters.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,738MI6 Agent
Yes I think they’ve come up in this thread before as being quite Bond villain-esque, I think it’s a good call. They were in the news again this week, very unpleasant.
I'm still listening to a podcast about the Wagner group. At one point Wagner was put on a terrorist organisation list by the EU parliament , partly because of a viral video of a defector from the group who gets killed with a sledgehammer. Wagner reacted by sending a sledgehammer (with fake blood) with the Wagner logo inside a violin case to the EU. I suspect this is too brutal for a Bond film, but to me it sounds very Flemingesque.
I see on the news that the US Coast Guard has ceased a Venezuelan oil tanker on the suspicion that it smuggles drugs. I'll skip over the legal and political discussions about this issue and focus on the Bondian aspects of it. Smuggling drugs in oil reminds me of LTK, and of course the tanker brings up fond memories of TSWLM. Smugling drugs on a tanker is too close to LTK I think, but I recall a Wilbur Smith novel where a small army is smuggled into a harbour in an oil tanker for a raid. Soldiers, drones, landing craft and hidden gun turrets. I'd love to see a raid launched from an oil tanker!
Now that the most important NATO member is threatening the territory of one of its closest allies we are reminded of the increasing importance of the Arctic: That's what James Bond screenwriters are looking for, isn't it? A current conflict in an exotic location?
Bond should definitely go to the Arctic! Bond should always reflect the times and a lot of the superpowers are coveting it. Maybe Bond is sent to investigate a missing British research vessel and it goes from there.
Lifestyle guide to the products and locations featured in the James Bond films.
That's a good idea! Maybe the research vessel sees something, some rare valuable mineral or enemy activity maybe? Then the ship disappears in the PTS, TSWLM style.
I’ve been thinking of an idea of something different - some similarities to other villains, but something different.
What about Bond becomes famous (in the movie), then a British agent from another organization who’s just as good becomes jealous?
So, the agent starts resorting to crime - kidnapping high profile people, stealing valuable artifacts, some minor explosions that kill nobody.
And he does this so covertly that he rescues the people he kidnapped and returns the artifacts he’s stolen, being hailed as a hero, not knowing he committed the crimes. He puts out the fires he starts and gets away with it until MI6 wonders who is doing this, and then Bond catches on.
He seeks to hurt nobody, and his motive isn’t money, revenge, domination, control/power or greed, it’s envy and glory.
Is it relevant plotwise to have an agent who certainly chose to dedicate his life to protecting his country suddenly decide to betray his own people simply because another guy sharing the same goal becomes famous and not him? I'm not sure at all.
If Bond is involved in some kind of rivalry, it has to be engaging. For example, Bond's case being disrupted because of some national reform supported by MI5 or another local structure whose best element is taking the lead, preventing MI6 to operate like they usually do. In Sp, the clash Mallory/Denbigh was promising, but I was quite disappointed bt the way they eventually solved it in the climax (John Logan's early drafts were better imho).
It could have been interesting to have Bond become famous in NTTD, or notorious perhaps, his identity blown in the press. As it was the last adventure for that version of Bond, having him lose his secret identity was something you don't need to worry about when there's no next film.
In Sp, the clash Mallory/Denbigh was promising, but I was quite disappointed bt the way they eventually solved it in the climax (John Logan's early drafts were better imho).
I liked that one where M used NineEyes against Mallory and exposed his secret dealings in public in front of the big crowd, that was nice. It's always good when a baddie gets hoist by their own petard.
The villain is another agent who wants to scare people, then comes to the rescue putting out his own fires until Bond discovers he’s starting them to try get more fame and glory, a jealousy kind of thing.
Objectively, I think it’d be tricky to pull off, but my mindset is I’ve seen films about money, domination, power, greed, destroy humanity, revenge. I feel like this explores a new theme that hasn’t really been touched upon in movies.
I’m envisioning an agent who believes he’s just as good as Bond (and truthfully, actually is), but even though Bond doesn’t want fame, he’s thrust into it anyway. This agent is nevertheless envious of the fame, feeling un(der)appreciated for his efforts. He thinks he can get attention and recognition if he saves the day of his own high-profile crimes he stages.
It works, until it doesn’t.
Maybe it’d be better as a short story/fan fiction, but the Bond movies sometimes have been accused of recycling plots or borrowing from plots from previous movies. So, I think a twist would be good, tapping into something completely new.
However tempting I won’t comment on recent events regarding Greenland in the political sense. But I think many of us can agree that now Greenland is more in the public eye more than ever. To quote a Greenlander who said to the press: "A month ago many people didn't even know people lived here". An exotic location barely used in movies before, current conflict with potential danger and attention from the world. That's great for a Bond film.
Renate Reinsve and her movie Sentimental Value has been showered with praise and awards, most recently with a best foreign film award at the BAFTAs: She's an emerging star and a fantastic actress, maybe one of the best actresses breaking out internationally now. That's not just my opinion, it seems to be the opinion of film critics everywhere. She is also tall and striking looking. In my opinion she could be great villain or henchwoman. Here she is earlier today:
Comments
I’d rather the films went back to outrageous villains (Dr No, Goldfinger, Blofeld etc.), outrageous lairs (YOLT, TSWLM etc), outrageous stunts (TSWLM, MR etc.) outrageous plots (TB, YOLT, DAF etc.), gorgeous girls (they will always be Bond Girls to me - as in girls night out or boys night out, when referring to adults enjoying an evening out). I don’t want reality, I want two hours of escapism.
I don't know if this story is very well known by the public, and even if it is we still don't know for sure if actually happened. The script doesn't even have to mention Sarajevo or Bosnia. A line in the script about the villain paying large sums to snipe at civilians in active war zones should be enough to make him absolutely hateable.
When you put it like that it makes my mind go directly to the Las Vegas Mass Shooting of 2017. War zone or not mass shooting or similar are something writers should stay away from. Only way for something like that to work is for Bond to stop it before it happens. And I mean, don't let it get to the point of it being close to happening. There's other ways to make villains not liked very much.
Of course I understand and share your feelings about the Las Vegas shooting massacre (and all the other mass shootings happening around the US). But what I suggest and the Vegas shooting are fairly different. Vegas is not a war zone as you mention, Neither was the Vegas shooter not a millionaire who paid to shoot those people. Do you really want there to be a total ban against the mention of civilians getting killed in Bond movies? Because it sounds a bit like you are. If I had suggested a scene where we see lots of civilians getting shot I would understand the pushback I'm getting, but I never said anything of the sort. I only suggested such an event getting mentioned by one of the characters.
Nope, not against the mentioning of civilians getting killed.
I think we're pretty much in agreement. 🙂
Remember the Wagner Group? The sinister mercenary group that absolutely had no tides to Putin until it really didn't and tried a coup?
Back in the day their informal motto was: "Death is our business - and business is good!". Can't you hear a bond villain saying that line?
Wagner was often called The Orchestra, again very Bondian I think.
Yes I think they’ve come up in this thread before as being quite Bond villain-esque, I think it’s a good call. They were in the news again this week, very unpleasant.
I'm still listening to a podcast about the Wagner group. At one point Wagner was put on a terrorist organisation list by the EU parliament , partly because of a viral video of a defector from the group who gets killed with a sledgehammer. Wagner reacted by sending a sledgehammer (with fake blood) with the Wagner logo inside a violin case to the EU. I suspect this is too brutal for a Bond film, but to me it sounds very Flemingesque.
Good grief. What nasty pieces of work.
Very much so.
I see on the news that the US Coast Guard has ceased a Venezuelan oil tanker on the suspicion that it smuggles drugs. I'll skip over the legal and political discussions about this issue and focus on the Bondian aspects of it. Smuggling drugs in oil reminds me of LTK, and of course the tanker brings up fond memories of TSWLM. Smugling drugs on a tanker is too close to LTK I think, but I recall a Wilbur Smith novel where a small army is smuggled into a harbour in an oil tanker for a raid. Soldiers, drones, landing craft and hidden gun turrets. I'd love to see a raid launched from an oil tanker!
Not really a plot idea, but a line. If they go for a young Bond starting in the 00-section and they have the guts they should use it.
"Who can we send on this mission?"
"There is a young man we recruited from the navy - James Bond. Bond shows a lot of promise. He's really up and coming ....."
Cut to James Bond in bed with a beautiful woman. 😁
"Bond always rises to the occasion"
The line is very Roger Moore. 😁
If I'm not more mistaken than usual I don't think this line/joke has been used in a Bond film:
Bond has been abroad and along with his mission he's met a couple of Bond girls.
Moneypenny: - James! What have you been up to?
Bond: Foreign affairs. 😁
Now that the most important NATO member is threatening the territory of one of its closest allies we are reminded of the increasing importance of the Arctic: That's what James Bond screenwriters are looking for, isn't it? A current conflict in an exotic location?
Bond should definitely go to the Arctic! Bond should always reflect the times and a lot of the superpowers are coveting it. Maybe Bond is sent to investigate a missing British research vessel and it goes from there.
That's a good idea! Maybe the research vessel sees something, some rare valuable mineral or enemy activity maybe? Then the ship disappears in the PTS, TSWLM style.
I’ve been thinking of an idea of something different - some similarities to other villains, but something different.
What about Bond becomes famous (in the movie), then a British agent from another organization who’s just as good becomes jealous?
So, the agent starts resorting to crime - kidnapping high profile people, stealing valuable artifacts, some minor explosions that kill nobody.
And he does this so covertly that he rescues the people he kidnapped and returns the artifacts he’s stolen, being hailed as a hero, not knowing he committed the crimes. He puts out the fires he starts and gets away with it until MI6 wonders who is doing this, and then Bond catches on.
He seeks to hurt nobody, and his motive isn’t money, revenge, domination, control/power or greed, it’s envy and glory.
Bond being famous and a villain who isn't out to hurt antbody? Those are problems I think.
Is it relevant plotwise to have an agent who certainly chose to dedicate his life to protecting his country suddenly decide to betray his own people simply because another guy sharing the same goal becomes famous and not him? I'm not sure at all.
If Bond is involved in some kind of rivalry, it has to be engaging. For example, Bond's case being disrupted because of some national reform supported by MI5 or another local structure whose best element is taking the lead, preventing MI6 to operate like they usually do. In Sp, the clash Mallory/Denbigh was promising, but I was quite disappointed bt the way they eventually solved it in the climax (John Logan's early drafts were better imho).
It could have been interesting to have Bond become famous in NTTD, or notorious perhaps, his identity blown in the press. As it was the last adventure for that version of Bond, having him lose his secret identity was something you don't need to worry about when there's no next film.
In Sp, the clash Mallory/Denbigh was promising, but I was quite disappointed bt the way they eventually solved it in the climax (John Logan's early drafts were better imho).
I liked that one where M used NineEyes against Mallory and exposed his secret dealings in public in front of the big crowd, that was nice. It's always good when a baddie gets hoist by their own petard.
The villain is another agent who wants to scare people, then comes to the rescue putting out his own fires until Bond discovers he’s starting them to try get more fame and glory, a jealousy kind of thing.
I'm not a fan of the idea, but movie plots are very much a matter of opinion.
Objectively, I think it’d be tricky to pull off, but my mindset is I’ve seen films about money, domination, power, greed, destroy humanity, revenge. I feel like this explores a new theme that hasn’t really been touched upon in movies.
I’m envisioning an agent who believes he’s just as good as Bond (and truthfully, actually is), but even though Bond doesn’t want fame, he’s thrust into it anyway. This agent is nevertheless envious of the fame, feeling un(der)appreciated for his efforts. He thinks he can get attention and recognition if he saves the day of his own high-profile crimes he stages.
It works, until it doesn’t.
Maybe it’d be better as a short story/fan fiction, but the Bond movies sometimes have been accused of recycling plots or borrowing from plots from previous movies. So, I think a twist would be good, tapping into something completely new.
I think it can work if fame for Bond getting a lot of attention from M and the rest of the MI6 leadership, and as a result getting the best missions.
However tempting I won’t comment on recent events regarding Greenland in the political sense. But I think many of us can agree that now Greenland is more in the public eye more than ever. To quote a Greenlander who said to the press: "A month ago many people didn't even know people lived here". An exotic location barely used in movies before, current conflict with potential danger and attention from the world. That's great for a Bond film.
Renate Reinsve and her movie Sentimental Value has been showered with praise and awards, most recently with a best foreign film award at the BAFTAs: She's an emerging star and a fantastic actress, maybe one of the best actresses breaking out internationally now. That's not just my opinion, it seems to be the opinion of film critics everywhere. She is also tall and striking looking. In my opinion she could be great villain or henchwoman. Here she is earlier today:
Seriously, hire her now!