Trek II, the Wrath Of Khan, brought the age of the characters up to date. In part because both Harve Bennett and Nick Myer hated that they had tried to pass off the passade of 10 years as 2 in The Motion Picture. Its sobering to see Kirk and McCoy talking about getting older.
Trek VI was agreed as the last Original cast film for three reasons.
1 The cast were getting a little too old and expensive. A proper conclusion story was the right way to go.
2 No one wanted V to be the last TOS film. It bombed on every level. Sent the wrong message.
3 TNG had reached its peak, it was only a couple of years or so before it would end, and Paramount were already planning it for the big screen. DSN was already in development to take over its slot on tv.
Bond does not have any of the elements to it.
It has been a 60 year plus film franchise under The House Of Eon, and a couple of Also rans, and one animated series for teens.
Bond can look back, but the only sensible way to do it, is period drama. Revisit the original Fleming stories in a postwar period drama series. Amazon is good at doing good quality original series like Reacher, Rings Of Power, etc.
Re-utilizing any of the existing Bond actors is always a good idea, they are talented performers. But NOT in their prior roles. DAD was 24 years ago this year. NSNA and AVTAK suffered from the older age of the leads. I enjoy those films for what they are, but this is a glaring sticking point.
Craig's Bond is dead and gone. Its suposition on my part, but the actor looks much happier in the Glass Onion films, than he did in SP or NTTD, and the latter was a misfire on so many levels. He wanted definative closure. He got it and that is that, for everyone. CR-06 is and now always will be my favourite classic Bond film. The ones after it tried to hard to be edgy, brooding and Bourne like. A mistep.
Maybe, just maybe the time is right for a new take on Bond and the Double Ohs? If anything new is a botch up, it can't damage the legacy of the existing film library, or the Saltzman / Brocollis / Wilson legacy. Again, as Trek has recently well demonstrated!
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Not quite what? I don’t really follow what you’re saying. Bond couldn’t recognise its lead getting older? I don’t see why not, I think it would have added to it. NTTD nodded towards it, but Craig looked so good it didn’t really need to much.
I'll add a lot of people don't realize how good Craig is in Sp, a film considered by many as the worst of the Craig era. I've rewatched it, and despite some questionable creative choices I won't mention in this post because it's not the point, the major element that struck me is Craig's performance. In this one, he's incredibly cool and suave. He's the confident Bond we all fell in love with when we discovered the series.
I love how his Bond has become more comfortable in his own skin by Spectre, yeah. He’s a little bit playful even, with stuff like the little wave at the funeral or the ‘stay!’ to the security guy at the clinic. And that continues into NTTD; folks might complain that his story arc wasn’t planned enough, but the way his performance gradually changes over the films is just perfect for me. He’s an absolutely terrific Bond.
I agree. And full disclosure, I belong to those who're not keen on the Craig era in terms of plots and stakes, which doesn't prevent me from appreciating a lot Craig's performances as Bond...
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,930MI6 Agent
The 'not quite' was directly referencing Trek VI being the agepoint in those films, and noting that Trek II was. From that point on, the actual age of the actors was openly accepted as the age of their characters and timeframes of those stories ongoing.
Regarding Bond in his own right, the Craig era wasted too much screen time see-sawing between looking into his damaged past, or establishing him as over the hill! SF, SP and NTTD were all a wasted opportunity on that score, despite Craigs consistantly excellent performances.
My point on an older Bond in situ, is its been done before. CR-67 was the best example (did I type that?!) with Niven's Bond as the new M.
It was a core element of NSNA for Connery's return, trotted around awkwardly, almost painfully so in AVTAK, and been a plot point of every film since DAD, except the duo of CR-06 and QoS. Hes older, he's tired, he's lost is edge, hes washed up. Etc etc, etc. Bringing back any of the previous actors as an older Bond in principle is a neat idea, and Brosnan would I categorically agree, be best.
However In practice, its a tired old trope we have had too much of as it is!
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
The 'not quite' was directly referencing Trek VI being the agepoint in those films, and noting that Trek II was. From that point on, the actual age of the actors was openly accepted as the age of their characters and timeframes of those stories ongoing.
I sort of get what you're saying: yes, age was a theme of ST2, but that ends with Kirk feeling reinvigorated and saying "I feel young", and leading into the next series of adventures. I was talking about AVTAK, which they pretty much knew at the time was to be Roger's last film, much like they knew ST6 would be their last film, wherein we get lines like "Is it possible that we two - you and I - have grown so old and so inflexible that we have outlived our usefulness?" and ends with the crew literally retiring from duty and riding off into the sunset. I'm not saying age wasn't mentioned in any other Star Trek films, just that it was a part of 6 (with Kirk's entrenched views of the old soldier being a key part of it) and it ended with retirement, which I'm saying a similar recognition of advancing years and a definitive endpoint might have been a nice thing to do with Roger's Bond. Not make it a huge part, just not ignore it.
However In practice, its a tired old trope we have had too much of as it is!
Yeah agreed, it was literally the most recent Bond film. Doing it again seems pointless.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,873Chief of Staff
Comments
Not quite!
Trek II, the Wrath Of Khan, brought the age of the characters up to date. In part because both Harve Bennett and Nick Myer hated that they had tried to pass off the passade of 10 years as 2 in The Motion Picture. Its sobering to see Kirk and McCoy talking about getting older.
Trek VI was agreed as the last Original cast film for three reasons.
1 The cast were getting a little too old and expensive. A proper conclusion story was the right way to go.
2 No one wanted V to be the last TOS film. It bombed on every level. Sent the wrong message.
3 TNG had reached its peak, it was only a couple of years or so before it would end, and Paramount were already planning it for the big screen. DSN was already in development to take over its slot on tv.
Bond does not have any of the elements to it.
It has been a 60 year plus film franchise under The House Of Eon, and a couple of Also rans, and one animated series for teens.
Bond can look back, but the only sensible way to do it, is period drama. Revisit the original Fleming stories in a postwar period drama series. Amazon is good at doing good quality original series like Reacher, Rings Of Power, etc.
Re-utilizing any of the existing Bond actors is always a good idea, they are talented performers. But NOT in their prior roles. DAD was 24 years ago this year. NSNA and AVTAK suffered from the older age of the leads. I enjoy those films for what they are, but this is a glaring sticking point.
Craig's Bond is dead and gone. Its suposition on my part, but the actor looks much happier in the Glass Onion films, than he did in SP or NTTD, and the latter was a misfire on so many levels. He wanted definative closure. He got it and that is that, for everyone. CR-06 is and now always will be my favourite classic Bond film. The ones after it tried to hard to be edgy, brooding and Bourne like. A mistep.
Maybe, just maybe the time is right for a new take on Bond and the Double Ohs? If anything new is a botch up, it can't damage the legacy of the existing film library, or the Saltzman / Brocollis / Wilson legacy. Again, as Trek has recently well demonstrated!
Not quite what? I don’t really follow what you’re saying. Bond couldn’t recognise its lead getting older? I don’t see why not, I think it would have added to it. NTTD nodded towards it, but Craig looked so good it didn’t really need to much.
I'll add a lot of people don't realize how good Craig is in Sp, a film considered by many as the worst of the Craig era. I've rewatched it, and despite some questionable creative choices I won't mention in this post because it's not the point, the major element that struck me is Craig's performance. In this one, he's incredibly cool and suave. He's the confident Bond we all fell in love with when we discovered the series.
I love how his Bond has become more comfortable in his own skin by Spectre, yeah. He’s a little bit playful even, with stuff like the little wave at the funeral or the ‘stay!’ to the security guy at the clinic. And that continues into NTTD; folks might complain that his story arc wasn’t planned enough, but the way his performance gradually changes over the films is just perfect for me. He’s an absolutely terrific Bond.
I agree. And full disclosure, I belong to those who're not keen on the Craig era in terms of plots and stakes, which doesn't prevent me from appreciating a lot Craig's performances as Bond...
The 'not quite' was directly referencing Trek VI being the agepoint in those films, and noting that Trek II was. From that point on, the actual age of the actors was openly accepted as the age of their characters and timeframes of those stories ongoing.
Regarding Bond in his own right, the Craig era wasted too much screen time see-sawing between looking into his damaged past, or establishing him as over the hill! SF, SP and NTTD were all a wasted opportunity on that score, despite Craigs consistantly excellent performances.
My point on an older Bond in situ, is its been done before. CR-67 was the best example (did I type that?!) with Niven's Bond as the new M.
It was a core element of NSNA for Connery's return, trotted around awkwardly, almost painfully so in AVTAK, and been a plot point of every film since DAD, except the duo of CR-06 and QoS. Hes older, he's tired, he's lost is edge, hes washed up. Etc etc, etc. Bringing back any of the previous actors as an older Bond in principle is a neat idea, and Brosnan would I categorically agree, be best.
However In practice, its a tired old trope we have had too much of as it is!
The 'not quite' was directly referencing Trek VI being the agepoint in those films, and noting that Trek II was. From that point on, the actual age of the actors was openly accepted as the age of their characters and timeframes of those stories ongoing.
I sort of get what you're saying: yes, age was a theme of ST2, but that ends with Kirk feeling reinvigorated and saying "I feel young", and leading into the next series of adventures. I was talking about AVTAK, which they pretty much knew at the time was to be Roger's last film, much like they knew ST6 would be their last film, wherein we get lines like "Is it possible that we two - you and I - have grown so old and so inflexible that we have outlived our usefulness?" and ends with the crew literally retiring from duty and riding off into the sunset. I'm not saying age wasn't mentioned in any other Star Trek films, just that it was a part of 6 (with Kirk's entrenched views of the old soldier being a key part of it) and it ended with retirement, which I'm saying a similar recognition of advancing years and a definitive endpoint might have been a nice thing to do with Roger's Bond. Not make it a huge part, just not ignore it.
However In practice, its a tired old trope we have had too much of as it is!
Yeah agreed, it was literally the most recent Bond film. Doing it again seems pointless.
Will children and teenagers even be interested? 🤷🏻♂️ Anything longer than 10 minutes and they switch off 🤣
It depends upon the age classification of the film too…who says you would target that demographic for such a film…?
Nobody advocated a series of septuagenarian Bond films…but as a one off…?