Nothing personal from me…but woe betide anyone that doesn’t fall into place and agree 100% with him…they are ‘obviously ’ arguing and don’t know what they are talking about.
I get more complaints about him than anyone on here…Higgins included ☺️
I know the feeling. I've been in numerous ...... discussions where I was completely in the right and completely reasonable and the other fella was just hopeless. For some strange reason it never happens the other way round. 😁
Okay, so you're saying the ones which didn't chart somehow wipe out the gold-selling international hit songs? That they didn't happen? I know some didn't do as well as others, but in order to make the point that his songs didn't do very well, you're having to ignore the ones which did really well. Pussycat went to no.3 in the US Billboard chart: it's written right there. Plus was a movie tie-in song of its own of course, written by Bacharach - good thing Burt didn't think he was a current artist either. Have you heard of 'It's Not Unusual'? It's quite a famous song, it made him instantly famous, it sold gold, went to no.1 in the UK and no. 10 in the US (no.3 in Australia, no. 2 in Canada, no. 6 in Ireland etc.) he went and became friends with Elvis off the back of it, and so on. The album it was on went gold too.
What is it you're saying exactly? That Tom Jones was never successful? That he only became famous after 1965, despite having three top ten hits in the UK (including a no.1 which is still famous to this day), a gold selling album and two top twenty hits in the US? It's bizarre that anyone can look at that table of singles with some hits attaining high chart positions and read it as a portrait of an artist who wasn't doing very well and not current.
He won a Grammy in March the following year for Best New Artist- with 'Its Not Unusual' and 'What's New Pussycat' (both released before Thunderball) both getting Grammy nominations. This is someone who you're saying wasn't current or 'finger on the pulse'. Best New Artist. The Grammys got it wrong too?
Out of interest, am I actually completely wrong about this? Do you think Tom Jones was a current artist doing quite well in 1965? I'm happy to admit it if I am, but I've even just tried typing 'when did tom jones get famous' into google and all the results said it was after It's Not Unusual too. I feel like I'm saying something reasonable too, as you describe; is it looking different on the outside? I feel like they'd give the Best New Artist Grammy to someone who's become quite well known and current.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,881Chief of Staff
Are you always this condescending..? Oh, yes…you are.
His debut single - which you continue to ignore because it doesn’t fit the version of your ‘facts’ - even though it’s there in black & white 🤯 - failed to chart. He had ONE UK top 10 hit before Thunderball …not the three you claim - even though it’s there in black & white…really, you can’t make this sh1t up 😳 oh wait a minute, yes you can…and you do 🤣
Thunderball was his only chart hit out of his SIX singles at the time…I’d say the VERY definition of ‘not current’…but you go ahead and believe whatever you want…👍🏻
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,881Chief of Staff
Out of 16 singles (1964-66) in the UK charts…Tom had 8 that charted….only two made the Top 10, but both of those went to Number 1…not exactly a great strike rate…
Tom Jones is a bona fide legend…now. Not then. Now.
Sorry, slip of the keyboard, I meant top twenty- I did get that right in my earlier post.
Regardless: for the case for him being current we’ve got a gold selling international hit hitting no.1 in the U.K. and top ten around the world (and arguably remaining his signature song to this day), a theme song for a movie being another hit and making no.3 in the US, a gold-selling album, two singles going into the top twenty, those same two big singles getting Grammy nominations, and a Grammy win for Best New Artist.
For the case against him bring current we have that some of his other singles didn’t do as well as the massive hits. The first song he released didn’t chart, no- that is ironically not unusual, but he launched his career instantly with the next. If you look at any biography of him it says quite plainly when he became famous
I just don’t find the case against terribly compelling. I don’t think you can only be regarded as current if all of your songs are massive hits, otherwise no one would ever be current. If you win the Best New Artist Grammy though, I think you’re probably one of the bigger new acts who has appeared in the year previously.
I haven't followed this discussion too closely, so I'm foung to gracefully chicken out and say you're probably not completely wrong. I don't know, I haven't followed Tom Jones' career. But both of you may consider agreeing to disagree at this point.
Yes you’re right, I know what I think, what everything I’ve looked at says, and what the evidence says; if that won’t convince then nothing will, agree to disagree is probably right. Night.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,881Chief of Staff
He had a 50 percent hit rate (again, pun intended) early on in his career…not particularly good, not particularly bad…many other artistes had better…two of his other charting songs needed a film to push them 🤨
It's only you trying to make ‘a case’…I merely pointed out that many of the Bond themes didn’t have particularly ‘current artistes’ when you went all fan-boy over Raye…the rest of this is all about you trying to prove some nonsensical point…as usual.
Why you decided to fixate on Tom Jones and not Matt Munro or Carly Simon or Rita Coolidge, only you know. 🤷🏻♂️
I have no interest if you find whatever case you think I’m pushing about Tom Jones compelling or not…again, you fixated on Tom, not me.
Yeah, getting sick of this little display which pops up now and then across the two forums. I would like to chime in with my own B26 artists choices but just know it'll get lost amongst the bickering.
Time to kiss and make up guys - now pucker up, smooch, smooch. 😙
Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,881Chief of Staff
Would Beyonce be a good candidate now, or is she too occupid with her country phase? (Please don't say she can't do it because of a movie that will be about 25 years old when Bond26 comes out)
I think not. She's been working on other generes the rest of her life, and I bet her next album won't be country music.
I already said 'agree to disagree', just like I did on the very first page of this thread where I said "Cool, I don't, let's just leave it at that"; we're clearly not going to convince each other here- I disagree with your reading of whether he was a current artist at the time, you disagree with mine along with every other commentator on his career and the Grammy awards; it's fine. 😉
But what I don't understand is that you're pretending you didn't build a case or take a contrary position when you were making multiple posts saying you thought I was wrong, posting screengrabs of charts etc. It's proper sort of 'black is white' stuff- we can all see the posts. If I was 'fixated' on Tom then you were sharing that fixation too. It's like there is literally nothing I can say you will not take issue with, including the comment "I think it makes sense to go with someone a bit current" which you objected to leading to this whole silly conversation, saying that we're both making arguments for our opinions, or describing the two of us backing up our contrary positions with evidence as 'cases', which you're now saying you didn't do at all. If I say I think someone (who is apparently currently the bookies' odds on favourite to get the job) is in a good position to do a Bond song and is good, I'm apparently 'fanboying'. It's all rather silly.
Anyway, everyone's sick of this, let's move on. Shake hands and agree to disagree?
Yeah I think a country phase wouldn't rule out a Bond song, and to be fair, a country Bond song might be interesting even if she's not out of it! McCartney already put a reggae section in his song and it's one of the most well-remembered, a bit of playing around with the form isn't something I'd object to out of hand.
I think she'd certainly create a stir and is suited to the job, she would be a good choice for it.
He'd have been good, sometimes I think late 90s/early 2000s George Michael would have been a good choice too: he was massive at that point. I'm not a huge fan or anything, I just think he was ideally placed as a transatlantic star. I remember he even did one which sounded quite spy-like, was it called Strangest Thing?
As I’ve said many times, you get all snarky and condescending/confrontational and then play the wounded party.
You ‘asked’ a question and I replied…with facts…and you went down this Tom Jones rabbit hole. You fixated on Tom Jones, saying he was this massive current artiste at the time - when the record sales of his singles and albums at the time did not bear that out. But still you kept on digging. Further and further down.
I did not object to going with someone current…but obviously that doesn’t fit your narrative, so you keep repeating it until you convince yourself.
No idea what the bookies have got to with this…? They’ve had at least 8 different odds on favs for Bond and the theme tune artist over the last three years - so you mentioning that is just silly.
I was happy to move on ages ago…but you always pushed it…I’m ok to leave it here and let this thread continue…
I still reckon Florence + The Machine would smash it out the park 😁
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 30,881Chief of Staff
I implore you to listen to the full album now it's out. There's a real Bondian energy to alot of the songs on there with the big orchestral flourishes. Give 'The Sound of Love' and 'Angel Like You' a sp
Comments
Nothing personal from me…but woe betide anyone that doesn’t fall into place and agree 100% with him…they are ‘obviously ’ arguing and don’t know what they are talking about.
I get more complaints about him than anyone on here…Higgins included ☺️
I know the feeling. I've been in numerous ...... discussions where I was completely in the right and completely reasonable and the other fella was just hopeless. For some strange reason it never happens the other way round. 😁
I find that hard to believe 😁, Could you tally them all up just to be sure? Even the objections over green trainers 😁
Okay, so you're saying the ones which didn't chart somehow wipe out the gold-selling international hit songs? That they didn't happen? I know some didn't do as well as others, but in order to make the point that his songs didn't do very well, you're having to ignore the ones which did really well. Pussycat went to no.3 in the US Billboard chart: it's written right there. Plus was a movie tie-in song of its own of course, written by Bacharach - good thing Burt didn't think he was a current artist either. Have you heard of 'It's Not Unusual'? It's quite a famous song, it made him instantly famous, it sold gold, went to no.1 in the UK and no. 10 in the US (no.3 in Australia, no. 2 in Canada, no. 6 in Ireland etc.) he went and became friends with Elvis off the back of it, and so on. The album it was on went gold too.
What is it you're saying exactly? That Tom Jones was never successful? That he only became famous after 1965, despite having three top ten hits in the UK (including a no.1 which is still famous to this day), a gold selling album and two top twenty hits in the US? It's bizarre that anyone can look at that table of singles with some hits attaining high chart positions and read it as a portrait of an artist who wasn't doing very well and not current.
He won a Grammy in March the following year for Best New Artist- with 'Its Not Unusual' and 'What's New Pussycat' (both released before Thunderball) both getting Grammy nominations. This is someone who you're saying wasn't current or 'finger on the pulse'. Best New Artist. The Grammys got it wrong too?
Out of interest, am I actually completely wrong about this? Do you think Tom Jones was a current artist doing quite well in 1965? I'm happy to admit it if I am, but I've even just tried typing 'when did tom jones get famous' into google and all the results said it was after It's Not Unusual too. I feel like I'm saying something reasonable too, as you describe; is it looking different on the outside? I feel like they'd give the Best New Artist Grammy to someone who's become quite well known and current.
Wow…talk about spin 🫨
Are you always this condescending..? Oh, yes…you are.
His debut single - which you continue to ignore because it doesn’t fit the version of your ‘facts’ - even though it’s there in black & white 🤯 - failed to chart. He had ONE UK top 10 hit before Thunderball …not the three you claim - even though it’s there in black & white…really, you can’t make this sh1t up 😳 oh wait a minute, yes you can…and you do 🤣
Thunderball was his only chart hit out of his SIX singles at the time…I’d say the VERY definition of ‘not current’…but you go ahead and believe whatever you want…👍🏻
Going back through my PM’s…it’s not even close 😳🤣
And the rowing back begins….🙄
For the record - pun fully intended….
Out of 16 singles (1964-66) in the UK charts…Tom had 8 that charted….only two made the Top 10, but both of those went to Number 1…not exactly a great strike rate…
Tom Jones is a bona fide legend…now. Not then. Now.
Sorry, slip of the keyboard, I meant top twenty- I did get that right in my earlier post.
Regardless: for the case for him being current we’ve got a gold selling international hit hitting no.1 in the U.K. and top ten around the world (and arguably remaining his signature song to this day), a theme song for a movie being another hit and making no.3 in the US, a gold-selling album, two singles going into the top twenty, those same two big singles getting Grammy nominations, and a Grammy win for Best New Artist.
For the case against him bring current we have that some of his other singles didn’t do as well as the massive hits. The first song he released didn’t chart, no- that is ironically not unusual, but he launched his career instantly with the next. If you look at any biography of him it says quite plainly when he became famous
I just don’t find the case against terribly compelling. I don’t think you can only be regarded as current if all of your songs are massive hits, otherwise no one would ever be current. If you win the Best New Artist Grammy though, I think you’re probably one of the bigger new acts who has appeared in the year previously.
I haven't followed this discussion too closely, so I'm foung to gracefully chicken out and say you're probably not completely wrong. I don't know, I haven't followed Tom Jones' career. But both of you may consider agreeing to disagree at this point.
Whatever you do - good night. 🙂
Yes you’re right, I know what I think, what everything I’ve looked at says, and what the evidence says; if that won’t convince then nothing will, agree to disagree is probably right. Night.
Regardless 🤣
He had a 50 percent hit rate (again, pun intended) early on in his career…not particularly good, not particularly bad…many other artistes had better…two of his other charting songs needed a film to push them 🤨
It's only you trying to make ‘a case’…I merely pointed out that many of the Bond themes didn’t have particularly ‘current artistes’ when you went all fan-boy over Raye…the rest of this is all about you trying to prove some nonsensical point…as usual.
Why you decided to fixate on Tom Jones and not Matt Munro or Carly Simon or Rita Coolidge, only you know. 🤷🏻♂️
I have no interest if you find whatever case you think I’m pushing about Tom Jones compelling or not…again, you fixated on Tom, not me.
Come on, guys. All of us are getting tired of your incessant flirting. Get a room.
Yeah, getting sick of this little display which pops up now and then across the two forums. I would like to chime in with my own B26 artists choices but just know it'll get lost amongst the bickering.
Time to kiss and make up guys - now pucker up, smooch, smooch. 😙
Across two forums? 🤔 I’m interested in the second…perhaps you can PM me?
Go ahead and chime…
Would Beyonce be a good candidate now, or is she too occupid with her country phase? (Please don't say she can't do it because of a movie that will be about 25 years old when Bond26 comes out)
I think not. She's been working on other generes the rest of her life, and I bet her next album won't be country music.
I already said 'agree to disagree', just like I did on the very first page of this thread where I said "Cool, I don't, let's just leave it at that"; we're clearly not going to convince each other here- I disagree with your reading of whether he was a current artist at the time, you disagree with mine along with every other commentator on his career and the Grammy awards; it's fine. 😉
But what I don't understand is that you're pretending you didn't build a case or take a contrary position when you were making multiple posts saying you thought I was wrong, posting screengrabs of charts etc. It's proper sort of 'black is white' stuff- we can all see the posts. If I was 'fixated' on Tom then you were sharing that fixation too. It's like there is literally nothing I can say you will not take issue with, including the comment "I think it makes sense to go with someone a bit current" which you objected to leading to this whole silly conversation, saying that we're both making arguments for our opinions, or describing the two of us backing up our contrary positions with evidence as 'cases', which you're now saying you didn't do at all. If I say I think someone (who is apparently currently the bookies' odds on favourite to get the job) is in a good position to do a Bond song and is good, I'm apparently 'fanboying'. It's all rather silly.
Anyway, everyone's sick of this, let's move on. Shake hands and agree to disagree?
Yeah I think a country phase wouldn't rule out a Bond song, and to be fair, a country Bond song might be interesting even if she's not out of it! McCartney already put a reggae section in his song and it's one of the most well-remembered, a bit of playing around with the form isn't something I'd object to out of hand.
I think she'd certainly create a stir and is suited to the job, she would be a good choice for it.
He'd have been good, sometimes I think late 90s/early 2000s George Michael would have been a good choice too: he was massive at that point. I'm not a huge fan or anything, I just think he was ideally placed as a transatlantic star. I remember he even did one which sounded quite spy-like, was it called Strangest Thing?
Of the last five themes...
Cornell was the Matt Monro (though he wanted to be the Paul McCartney or at least the Tom Jones)
Jack White/Alicia Keys was the Madonna
Adele was the Shirley Bassey (DAF edition)
Sam Smith was the Lulu
Billie Eilish was the Sheena Easton
Sam Smith was the Lani Hall.
Why don't we settle all of this and get Rod Stewart?
(I'm being dead serious.)
Did you? Really.
As I’ve said many times, you get all snarky and condescending/confrontational and then play the wounded party.
You ‘asked’ a question and I replied…with facts…and you went down this Tom Jones rabbit hole. You fixated on Tom Jones, saying he was this massive current artiste at the time - when the record sales of his singles and albums at the time did not bear that out. But still you kept on digging. Further and further down.
I did not object to going with someone current…but obviously that doesn’t fit your narrative, so you keep repeating it until you convince yourself.
No idea what the bookies have got to with this…? They’ve had at least 8 different odds on favs for Bond and the theme tune artist over the last three years - so you mentioning that is just silly.
I was happy to move on ages ago…but you always pushed it…I’m ok to leave it here and let this thread continue…
I still reckon Florence + The Machine would smash it out the park 😁
I think Rod would have been a fabulous pick back in the mid-70’s 👍🏻
Always loved Robert Palmer too…he would/could have been sensational 👏🏻
They weren’t even THAT good 😳
Sure, we agree to disagree then 👍️
I implore you to listen to the full album now it's out. There's a real Bondian energy to alot of the songs on there with the big orchestral flourishes. Give 'The Sound of Love' and 'Angel Like You' a sp