golden gun
parfaitelumiere
Posts: 153MI6 Agent
I remember my beginning in prop collection it was in 2010 and at this time I was thinking about purchasing a factory entertainment golden gun.
Finally I moved mainly to star wars prop collection, mostly lightsabers, and japanese swords.
But I still remember doing searches about the golden gun, gathering informations and starting drawings and design.
I purchased 2 genuine molectric 88 and 2 genuine waterman pens.
But recently I started more serious work on the prop replica, designing a full working lighter, with, I hope, genuine working flame and still assemblable as a prop part.
I also started to think about a working pen, with removable core and usable as a barrel.
As there are virtually no informations about how the gun is working, how to load etc, I will take some freedom about design, it will be possible to load a dummy bullet inside, and to keep accurate shape for each part, accurate to original parts shape, and accurate to assemblable version of the gun too.
Here are the things I found,
bullets, and cufflinks
the only picture of the first prototype
sadly, the only large picture of the static assemblable gun version, there is no picture of the other side, so , no way to know igf the cigarette case has a S engraving like the first prototype.
firing version of the gun, the version is a bit different, especially the pen.
Here are my parts, for now real lighter and pen, and self made cufflinks:
For them, I wanted the original prop design, meaning, really different from existing replicas.
Both cufflinks are functionnal, using a spring load system for opening.
The trigger cufflink is not finished yet, I have to order a specific bolt to finish it, the rod will be shortened a bit too, to match other cuffling lenght.
Here are cufflinks a few hours before the previous picture:
Finally I moved mainly to star wars prop collection, mostly lightsabers, and japanese swords.
But I still remember doing searches about the golden gun, gathering informations and starting drawings and design.
I purchased 2 genuine molectric 88 and 2 genuine waterman pens.
But recently I started more serious work on the prop replica, designing a full working lighter, with, I hope, genuine working flame and still assemblable as a prop part.
I also started to think about a working pen, with removable core and usable as a barrel.
As there are virtually no informations about how the gun is working, how to load etc, I will take some freedom about design, it will be possible to load a dummy bullet inside, and to keep accurate shape for each part, accurate to original parts shape, and accurate to assemblable version of the gun too.
Here are the things I found,
bullets, and cufflinks
the only picture of the first prototype
sadly, the only large picture of the static assemblable gun version, there is no picture of the other side, so , no way to know igf the cigarette case has a S engraving like the first prototype.
firing version of the gun, the version is a bit different, especially the pen.
Here are my parts, for now real lighter and pen, and self made cufflinks:
For them, I wanted the original prop design, meaning, really different from existing replicas.
Both cufflinks are functionnal, using a spring load system for opening.
The trigger cufflink is not finished yet, I have to order a specific bolt to finish it, the rod will be shortened a bit too, to match other cuffling lenght.
Here are cufflinks a few hours before the previous picture:
Comments
I was gifted one of the pens by a close friend that SD Studios had borrowed from EON along with cufflinks and sold them on, I of corse returned it to EON's archive -{
BRAVO! Glad to hear they were returned. --Ed
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They all display this end, though my eyes are not focusing very well today
cufflinks:
I designed and ordered a set of 3d printed cufflinks from brass, will require lots of work to finish, all holes needed to be filled to print, and I made multiple piece files, to try to save money and make the casting easier, I was thinking about making cufflink on demand, but the price is expensive to print.
Cigarette box:
I finished the cigarette box design, and ordered a plastic print to get sure about the design.
It's featuring spring loaded big cap, and hidden spring loaded lock for the small cap, the part that holds on lighter is also moving, to get inside the small cap, if it wouldn't, no way to put all inside the small cap once the box closed..., the trigger holder is also spring loaded.
no red gem button, this button is only visible on firing version of the gun, pobably for fx ignition or so.
The spare box has no button on the trigger side, and the other button is on opposite side, for small cap opening.
So the large cap will be hand opening, but spring loaded for opened and closed position.
normally, the box will have a inner rectangular layer to hide all mechanic parts.
Lighter:
I also ordered a lighter cap, from brass, to get sure about the finish.
I will finish outer and inner design, and order all from brass or steel depending on the visible or not part.
Pen:
nothing done yet, I have to find some 3D files for thread sections, so I would design pen and lighter collection using thread, but nothing for now.
For the pen design I will change some details, using real waterman design, and requiring to put the cap on the end, remove the inner and then screw on the lighter, the pen will also get the bullet chamber, as nothing is definitive, we never see the gun loading in the movle, and only one promotionnal picture and advert is showing bullet with gun, but it seems obvious the bullet can't get loaded directly in the lighter.
Another design could be loading bullet in lighter, but as a lighter, not extended, then extend the loaded barrel, but it would mean no way to load the gun again once assembled, it would be a good explanation about the 1 million dollar single shot, just because the gun is loaded only once.
making working inner lighter will be more more difficult than loaded pen, but it could be interesting idea.
What is source for the diameter?
The lenght is 30mm for 007 bullet, informations from auctions, and 35mm for other bullets, bucle and chungwha cigarette case versions.
I measured the 007 bullet and found this:
caliber approx 7 mm
case diameter approx 8,5mm
I made searches on google for existing similar ammunitions and found nothing, but I found the 7x20 nambu with a close design, semi botteled shape, making a kinf of long neck, adding a custom gold bullet with custom shape, it could make a good match to original prop.
Also, as the pen clip width is 5mm, there is no way the caliber to be smaller, so I think I will choose the nambu shape for ammunition.
I have tried to make a functionnal inner lighter design, I mean, leading and working dummy bullet, with hammer effect, but it's so small inside and difficult I left the idea for now, and concentrated on working lighter instead of.
I think I can design a small fuel lighter, with old technology, quite easy to make, and easy to remove for bullet loading, also, very small size is possible, leaving room for further working parts inside lighter once I solve loading and firing issues.
I can still choose to load the bullet directly in the pen, still the easiest way, leaving room inside lighter for lighter, and firing.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
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7,62 diameter is too large and shape far too long, and how to fit a 7,62 bullet in a 9mm casing, it means making a neck, putting the casing large shape even shorter.
If the casing is a 9mm bullet, it means it's about 10mm in diameter and if the original 007 bullet is 30mm long, it's not 10mm in diameter, the casing is about 8,5mm, even the 7x20 nambu casing is a bit larger (9mm), but the bottle shape and overall dimensions could make a good match, also I think the diameter can't be too large, because the pen is only 13mm in diameter (original waterman is 12mm), and the thread section on end is about 10mm or so, it means a 7mm diameter is already really large even we all know the prop is a fictive thing, I would it to be realistic.
BTW I owned the blueprint of one of the original bullets SD Studios drew up after taking said bullet for reference {[]
The 9mm is the outer diameter of the casing or the bullet diameter for the casing?
The SD studio pen was really thick, I know the prop pen was thick also but as it's meant to be a waterman, it can't be that thick and that short...
I think in the end I will just make all from brass, and stop thinking about steel inserts for the barrel and inner pen, because I don't see any way to put all the mechanics, plus the bullet, plus the lighter inside the lighter...just yes, you can remove the lighter and put a bullet instead of.
A 7.62 bullet head slips in to a 9mm casing without widening the casing, it looks to me as if that is what they used if they actually used any reference at all because some of the bullets had longer heads than others, but on screen we only get to see the 007 one and the ones in the cigarette packet.
The GG in the film is totally made out of brass, the one in the title sequence is made out of silver and gold plated, this gun wasn't ready for any of the filming and it is that GG that survives in the Archive, the one made by Colbri was stolen (confirmed by Iris Rose) back just after the films release from a NY hotel lobby display.
It's really interesting, it seems there was also a prototype made from spare parts, maybe existing pieces, I don't know, but the prototype seems to be the only one with "S" engraving on the case.
I was thinking about making a engraved case but after looking the film again, there is no engraving on case, nor on cufflinks, so I will leave it blank.
finally I designed my own bullet:
I designed spare bullet and sleeve and solid versions, one blank other with 007 engraving.
bullets are hollow for lighter weight for printing.
complete ammunitions are also hollow, but with a hole to fill on bottom.
The real guns did not have the engraving.
The prototype according to Peter Lamont was made of bolser wood with a pin stuck in the end ?
Along time ago, before I worked for EON I was a gunsmith, so Im quite aware how bullets are manufactured
Bullets are not filled from the back, a percussion cap goes in that hole, the casing is filled from the top with the correct amount of propellent and then the bullet head is then pressed in by either a machine or by a hand press -{
SO I designed some solid hollow pieces, hollow to be light enough if I want to cast from silver or gold, and hollow to show it's obviously a dummy, even for not trained eye, once you look at the back of the casing.
The 2 parts version can be more realistic, but I think I won't show them in cons, the 2 parts version will probably be drilled to put firing cap or more, something looking like firing cap, the bullet head can be filled from inside, I think I remember I got some pewter bullets with brass overlay but no on inside.
I finally designed 2 solid versions
plain, available as gold plated brass finish on shapeways.
2 parts version, solid bullet and hollow casing, but it needs some work to put together due to printing thickness limit, so it's not available for sale.
I would try to offer the other parts as available directly on shapeways, but I don't think I will be able to design directly usable parts without some handwork and finish, or I will have to thicken lots of areas, but even in this case, some threads and holes will be impossible to print, maybe I can put a plastic version as available less issues with plastic, but no way to get nice gold finish...
And this i'm afraid is where the 'magical' method of 3D printing finds its limitations.
I'm certainly not against 3D printing, in fact I use it quite often for particular jobs that require fine detail. It's especially useful for saving time as I can get on with other stuff while I wait, or parts can be printed overnight, which is a huge bonus.
However, 3D printing does have its limits. Fine threads, perfect surface finish, and the physical limits of how big you can create are the common issues.
I'm seeing a lot of 3D printing recently, and on one particular facebook group, there's people showing off what i'd consider bin fodder and others going all crazy over it. The mind boggles.
I'd suggest to anyone thinking of buying a 3D printer to consider this; for the same price as a decent 3D printer you could buy a good mini lathe, mini mill, pillar drill and bandsaw.
3D printing is good and has its uses but nothing replaces more conventional techniques.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I admit I don't like 3d printing, especially all the home stuff.
I worked in a dental lab and there were 2 different 3D printing technologies, one directly from metal with laser sintering, and other from wax, it was much finer than the home stuff, but it's still 3D printing, and didn't have handmade value for dental stuff...
printing is not machining, all machining details are not present on 3D printed stuff, but as the golden bullet has quite a soft finish I think it can be nice, made from polished brass and then gold plated.
I will keep 3D printing for organic things, made from polished metal, textured stuff and things it's not possible to get a different way without spending a crazy amount of time and money.
I will also keep this technology for things I can finish by hand, my golden gun will be a good example.
I ordered several material samples, brass, silver and plastic, because plastic can make a good dimensionnal test piece for low cost, and other materials can make a good base for a full hand finish.
But as you are explaining, choosing between a 3D print machine and a lathe, I buy the lathe, in fact I was really close to buy one 2 years ago, combined machine lathe and mill with digital display, and the model was not produced anymore...
btw, a stl file can be used for lathe, milling etc, not only printing, I didn't only put stl files on shapeways for printing also sent several to machining companies to get price quotes.
cnc machining is a good combination of proper machining and automation, but you need to have knowledge of capabilities, tolerances, setup, work holding and material selection. i'd class cnc machining as the more advanced end of the machining spectrum.
it's good to know you appreciate the suitability if the different options.
hope your project goes well, keep posting updates!
MG -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I remember when I made some parts at the workshop (I 'm not a machinist, I was polisher, never machined any stuff before) the guys asked me how I was able to make such things, or even asked what material I used it was so light for a such big piece.
Sometimes I have regrets not to work there anymore, because with just a lathe, a mill and proper tool there is so much we can do...
Making a golden gun the traditionnal way is much more complicated, it needs metal bending, some matrix for the cigarette case ends , a guilloché machine for the cigarette case finish, a horizontal diamond machine, to make the cubes of the lighter, a repoussé lathe for the pen, or a stamping machine with right tools for the pen, lots of industrial level stuff, really hard to make even with cnc and impossible to get accuracy even with best cnc work, the pen tube wall is so fine it can't be machined, and the cube section can't be produced using cnc milling, not the way they use them most of the times, but with a large mill with right angle, it can be done, and in this case, no cnc is needed, just a basic milling machine is ok.
what is very hard to make, without traditionnal tube bending and soldering is the lighter body and barrel, machining them from a solid is very hard, casting them from a 3D print is far easier, but both would require serious hand finish (not shapeways finish, it would probably wash details off, even it would be good to make a test)
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Excellent!
Thanks Ed!
Now to get it cleaned up a bit!
The right version has 16 dimonds, and no smaller inside larger.
Even for the right version, you have 14, 15 or 16 , sometimes correcty placed, sometimes off centered with half diamonds on ends, like yours.
here is a drawing of the idealized assemblable version of lighter but the real one can have similar design, the difference is mainly regarding lenght and thickness, original lighter is 65mm and assemblable is 80mm, thickness are 12 and 16mm but width is similar on both lighters, about 32mm, making 2mm wide diamond cuts.
Here is the content, 4 bullet kits, 2 from brass 2 from silver, the cigarette box prototype from plastic, and a lighter cap made from brass.