MTM or Bespoke - Suits and shirts
QuantumofSolange
UKPosts: 133MI6 Agent
Hi all,
I wanted to ask those who have experience with either or both MTM and Bespoke and their opinions on them.
I'm looking to upgrade my shirts and suits however I think bespoke for either is not currently within my budget.
Would you advise to wait till I can afford bespoke and avoid MTM or do you feel bespoke isn't worth the price point?
Naturally I'd love some T&A bespoke shirts a la JB but there is a minimum order of four for a first time order and I believe anywhere from £300 to £400 per shirt.
As for suits I'm looking at Norton and Townsend, Rubinacci or Anthony Sinclair. Rubinacci and AS are priced around £5k for bespoke suit. Not wedded to them so other suggestions are welcome. I believe N&T are £1200 or thereabouts for MTM.
I'm sure a Tom Ford suit would be fantastic but I can't imagine that is something I'll ever be able to afford.
The questions I'm ultimately asking are:
- do you feel bespoke is worth it, or is a decent MTM a worthwhile alternative? For both suits and shirts.
- please can you suggest brands for either MTM or bespoke, depending on your preference (I'm based in the UK so any London based or perhaps a few regional tailors too)
- does MTM allow for more room for fluctuations in body shape? I'm slim to athletic build, and aiming to improve the ratio in favour of athletic so I'm concerned I could drop a lot of money on bespoke items only for the items to not fit as well in the future where as MTM might allow for that. Though I'd have thought a good tailor would build in fabric to allow for this.
I appreciate this is a bit of a rambling post but I felt I'd be able to tap in to a lot of experience from fellow forum members here.
Very grateful for any tips and advice. -{
I wanted to ask those who have experience with either or both MTM and Bespoke and their opinions on them.
I'm looking to upgrade my shirts and suits however I think bespoke for either is not currently within my budget.
Would you advise to wait till I can afford bespoke and avoid MTM or do you feel bespoke isn't worth the price point?
Naturally I'd love some T&A bespoke shirts a la JB but there is a minimum order of four for a first time order and I believe anywhere from £300 to £400 per shirt.
As for suits I'm looking at Norton and Townsend, Rubinacci or Anthony Sinclair. Rubinacci and AS are priced around £5k for bespoke suit. Not wedded to them so other suggestions are welcome. I believe N&T are £1200 or thereabouts for MTM.
I'm sure a Tom Ford suit would be fantastic but I can't imagine that is something I'll ever be able to afford.
The questions I'm ultimately asking are:
- do you feel bespoke is worth it, or is a decent MTM a worthwhile alternative? For both suits and shirts.
- please can you suggest brands for either MTM or bespoke, depending on your preference (I'm based in the UK so any London based or perhaps a few regional tailors too)
- does MTM allow for more room for fluctuations in body shape? I'm slim to athletic build, and aiming to improve the ratio in favour of athletic so I'm concerned I could drop a lot of money on bespoke items only for the items to not fit as well in the future where as MTM might allow for that. Though I'd have thought a good tailor would build in fabric to allow for this.
I appreciate this is a bit of a rambling post but I felt I'd be able to tap in to a lot of experience from fellow forum members here.
Very grateful for any tips and advice. -{
Yes but my martini's still dry.
Comments
For shirts I get bespoke from Frank Foster, who have made more shirts for Bond than anyone else has. They have a six shirt first order, but the price is much less than T&A. I find the value in their shirts to be worth it as I haven’t found comparable MTM.
Bespoke allows for more fluctuations in body shape as there is typically much more inlay. MTM usually can’t be adjusted as much. But it’s usually for increasing the waist (Where most people get bigger) and not the chest. If you transform your body like Daniel Craig does when he prepares for Bond, you’re going to end up with a poor Skyfall-type fit that can’t be fixed. No suit can be adjusted to accommodate a much larger chest. Taking in is much easier, though only to a certain point. Suits are not able to change drastically in size either way, not even bespoke suits. It’s best not to spend a lot of money on clothes until you get your body where you want it.
It may help to think of this as a journey. Maybe even start with getting a couple of sport coats and shirts off the rack and having some minor tailoring done to improve the fit. Then move on to MTM. Research different suit styles and the houses that specialize in each style. And then when you feel ready, invest in a bespoke piece. Maybe start with something less expensive like a sport coat to dial in the fit and to give the tailor a chance to better understand your body's shape. Each step is an opportunity to learn more about what you're buying.
Look forward to seeing the results!
I should have asked the question, why are you considering both Rubinacci and Anthony Sinclair? The styles are quite different, with Rubinacci being Neapolitan in style and Sinclair being very English. There are countless excellent tailors who make those styles, and there are many other styles. If you like the Tom Ford look, certain English bespoke tailors do that look (as they are who Tom Ford got his style from).
Many thanks for your input!
Will explore the made to measure route for the suits, though I'm tempted to opt for bespoke for the shirts.
Matt, do you mind telling me how much the Frank Forster shirts cost? Is the man still going strong? His website needs a bit of TLC.
I usually experiment with having shirts darted/taken in to have a slimmer fit but not skin tight (this usually happens if I need to size up from OTR). I'm mostly just sick of Tyrwhitt shirts. I want a shirt that fits me well, not hangs off me like a parachute, even with a slim fit, and fails to move with me.
I'm mostly aware of AS through the association with Bond (and that was mostly why i named them), Rubinacci because I quite fancied a pair of his gurkha style trousers though I'm wondering about the practicality of them.
I've had a fair few suits (all OTR), all with minor adjustments - having the collar sit better, jacket taken in, trousers adjusted for a nice break etc. As with the shirts, I want to move to a suit that fits better.
I have an idea of the style I'd like, broad notched lapels, 2 button, double vent, side adjusters on the trousers with a broad waistband (brace buttons for my Albert Thurston braces -{ ), a nice break. Perhaps a hybrid of English and Italian styling?
I'd want it to be fitted but look relaxed
Make of that what you will haha.
One additional question, a friend recently had a MTM suit made by Reiss. He's quite happy and cost £800-900. Any thoughts on Reiss for MTM?
When I last got Frank Foster shirts the price was £200 per shirt, but I don't know if that is the current price. Their website certainly needs a bit of work!
Frank himself passed a few years ago, but his widow and daughter run the shop.
You can customise those aspects you mention in any good MTM suit (many lesser MTM brands don't do side adjusters), except for the width of the waistband. That's typically set. I like the width of the Mason & Sons MTM waistbands. They're not too narrow like some of the cheap MTM brands do.
I went into the Reiss shop once and looked at their RTW. The fabrics were cheap and the cuts were awful. I don't know if their MTM is any better, and I can't find out much about it online. Mason & Sons is around that price and does superb MTM.
Matt, once again this is fantastic information. I may just have to visit Mason and Sons now!
Merry Christmas
Sadly, depending on everyone shape, it may be difficult.
I am quite lucky, I can buy some good italian brands, and make minor modifications only.
For suits, I found belvest brand, the tailor got crazy when he shortened my sleeves "where did you get this, all made by hand?"
For shirts I tried several french, then italian, and finally choosed Vincenzo di Ruggiero, slleves are not too long, and shape is good, and almost everything is made by hand, I just don't like the modern buttons, quite thick, and this button sewing fashin "zampa di gallina" never saw it on antique shirts or wear, so I think it's just a fashion.
Of course even fully handmade, the modern shirts are not as good as the antique ones I have, the work at this time was really crazy.
most recently a great midnight blue hopsack blazer.
So even though I live on other side of the world getting suits so easy and quality superb
All very positive so I’m definitely considering Mason & Sons now. Thanks for the comments.
Out of interest what options have people chosen for MTM? I’m currently thinking full canvas over half canvas but curious to know if anyone has gone for the handmade/hand finished top option.
I have both full canvas and half canvas from them. I have not tried the handmade option, which can help fit the suit better if it's necessary. It's not necessary for me and for most other people, so I recommend going just for the full canvas.
Great thank you. Whilst on the subject of Mason and Sons, has anyone ordered a MTM or bespoke shirt from them as well?
As per Matt S's suggestion I have Frank Forster noted down but thought why not acquire all items in one stop/shop.
I have MTM shirts from them, and they're excellent. But they're nothing like a bespoke shirt, and even a bespoke shirt from them will not be the same as a Frank Foster shirt (or a Turnbull & Asser shirt). House styles are very much a thing, for both suits and shirts.
I know M&S have their "conduit cut" for their suits and T&A have their own collar style but that's the extent of any understanding I have re house styles.
T&A and Frank Foster do different collar shapes. They both stitch the interfacings into their collars as traditional English shirtmakers do, but Foster uses a heavier interfacing. T&A has different options in bespoke for interfacings while Frank Foster have never given me the option (not that I would ask for anything other than their standard).
They each have their own placket design. T&A's is similar to many other traditional English shirtmakers in that it's narrow and stitched 3/8" from the edge. Frank Foster's is more unique in how they stitch it close to the centre of the placket.
Frank Foster makes longer cuffs than most other shirtmakers and has unique cuff designs. T&A has their own unique cuff designs, like their tapered three-button cuff. Foster uses a heavier interfacing in the cuffs.
T&A has a curved hem with a gusset while Frank Foster does a straight hem with vents at the sides.
If I were to compare these shirtmakers to Mason & Sons' MTM shirts, there would be a lot more differences in almost every aspect.
I appreciate this is an old, old thread but I just wanted to give an up-to-date experience of Mason and Sons.
I have a wedding to attend in St Moritz in August, so decided to treat myself to a new suit. Obviously, with all of its connections, I decided to give Mason and Sons a visit as I was originally thinking traditional Connery conduit cut etc etc - as well as the Barleycorn / Cavalry combo. Ultimately, the suit I have purchased is very, very different to anything Bond related, and actually falls more under their Mr Fish brand than Anthony Sinclair, but I just wanted to express how delighted I have been with the whole process.
Having met Elliot for the measuring session and fabric selection, and David for the initial fitting, I can only say that, from initial communication to the visits to their Montagu Square location (ohhh the history of that place is wonderful - and David tells it so richly!) I have been incredibly impressed and have absolutely enjoyed every moment! The suit arrived last week for first fitting and looks amazing. I’ve also ordered a couple of shirts from them and love the way they fit.
Having initially given a ‘Connery / Bond’ brief, but having switched to something completely different on the visit, I can only say that both Elliot and David have taken care of every stupid idea, silly request and ‘suit novice’ question with great attention and good grace.
I haven’t seen the Barleycorn combo yet as I ordered after my initial suit appointment but, having seen the quality and craftsmanship of the first suit, I’m really looking forward to getting my hands on it.
I appreciate others above may have had a less favourable experience, but those were somewhat difficult times. I would have no doubts recommending Mason and Sons now. And I will certainly shop there again.