Pros and Cons: A View to a Kill

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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Funny thing is that even in HD, I didn't really notice the stunt double. I guess its because I wasn't paying attention too much on that detail. I zoned out during some parts of the movie because they were boring lol

    ---

    Another interesting topic. What if Dalton had played Moore in AVTAK.

    Considering how low this movie ranks, it may have been a good idea. It might have given the more dramatic scenes a bit of heft. At the same time, I think The Living Daylights was a much better intro for Dalton. It felt like a Dalton movie. AVTAK doesn't feel like a Dalton movie.
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    What if Dalton had played Moore in AVTAK.

    That could have been entertaining, maybe even more entertaining than if Dalton had played Bond in AVTAK! :))
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,107MI6 Agent
    Pros: Great PTS

    Great locations

    Great theme song

    The crowd at the wedding reception that Bond crashes are dancing to a jazzy instrumental version of the song. Nice touch!

    Cons

    The main strike scene borrows heavily from Gold and the stuntmen aren't well hidden.

    The writing for Bond and Stacey's relationship is all over the place. He spends almost the entire film acting as Stacey's protector, almost like a father figure. He is having sex with her in the end of the film. He has never had any sexual intentions towards her despite what he says to Tibbett.
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

    " I don't listen to hip hop!"
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Here's my quick take...
    .....[*]Only DAD keeps AVTAK from being bottom of the barrel.[/*]

    In your "quick take" - you have forgotten the very bottom of the barrell: DAF ;)
    Your barrel, not mine!
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    PROS:
    * Duran Duran's theme song.
    * John Barry's soundtrack
    * Christopher Walken's Zorin.
    * Ski PTS
    * All scenes in France (specially Eiffel tower, but Chateau too).
    * Grace Jones.
    * San Francisco, great location.
    * Golden Gate ending.
    * The references to fracking (pumping water in oil fields) 25 years before they made news.

    CONS:
    * First and foremost, a 57 year old Bond.
    * Beach Boys "California Girls" in PTS, ruining the mood of a very good, tense scene with one of the best John Barry cues ever.
    * Consequence of a 57 year old Bond, the scenes with Stacey where he behaves as a grandfather as opposed to a womanizer.
    * The fire engine chase, too keystone cops. Again, comedy runing a tense escape.
    * Did I mention that Roger Moore was too old to play James Bond?
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Another interesting topic.  What if Dalton had played Moore in AVTAK.
    Considering how low this movie ranks, it may have been a good idea.  It might have given the more dramatic scenes a bit of heft.  At the same time, I think The Living Daylights was a much better intro for Dalton.  It felt like a Dalton movie.  AVTAK doesn't feel like a Dalton movie.

    If Dalton had played Bond, I think AVTAK would be considered a classic. The screenplay would have been written for a more serious, young actor, so all the problems that I see in the movie would disappear.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    I reckon that the Story would have been rather different as well -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • King KamalKing Kamal Posts: 85MI6 Agent
    Pros:
    [list=*]
    [*]Mayday
    Moore
    Epic John Barry score
    Golden Gate Bridge Fight
    Snow scenes in PTS
    Walken as Zorin
    Clever and contemporary if not original plot
    Stacey Sutton (looks and brains -{ )[/*]
    [/list]

    Cons
    [list=*]
    [*]Moore's age
    Silly KGB/Ivanova sub plot
    Poor MI6 Scenes
    Cringeworthy end scenes
    The Iceberg sub thing
    Fire Engine chase and San Fran cops[/*]
    [/list]
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I heard that this movie was originally conceived with Dalton in mind, but Dalton couldn't do it (other contractual obligations). And Moore made some changes to it to suit his more polite personality.

    Someone with more knowledge than me can affirm (or correct me on) this.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,052Chief of Staff
    I'm fairly sure Dalton wasn't in the frame for this and Moore was the planned 007.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agreed, I've never read anything saying that Dalton
    Was in the frame for AVTAK.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    From what I've read neither Dalton nor anyone else was contacted for AVTAK. Cubby called Moore and offered him the picture, apparently there was nor bargaining this time.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I've always believed that Moore was given AVTAK, so he could hold the
    Record for the longest Bond to do consecutive movies. Firstly as a snub
    To Connery and secondly as a thank you for OP beating NSNA. :D
    I have nothing to base this on, it's just what I think. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    I've always believed that Moore was given AVTAK, so he could hold the
    Record for the longest Bond to do consecutive movies. Firstly as a snub
    To Connery and secondly as a thank you for OP beating NSNA. :D
    I have nothing to base this on, it's just what I think. :))

    I think so too. A thank you from Cubby, a snub to Connery, like "Moore did 7 official Bonds, you just did 6 and NSNA".
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    I think TLD was originally written with Moore in mind.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I think TLD was originally written with Moore in mind.

    That would have been a disaster!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Sometimes it takes a few films before an actor's style and strengths can
    Be worked into a script, especially when scripts have been written with a
    Particular actor for some years.
    I remember reading that it wasn't until TSWLM, that Moore got a script
    In his style rather than a Connery type film. So I'd say the script for TLD
    Still had parts, that had Moore in mind rather than a new actor.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    I've always believed that Moore was given AVTAK, so he could hold the
    Record for the longest Bond to do consecutive movies. Firstly as a snub
    To Connery and secondly as a thank you for OP beating NSNA. :D
    I have nothing to base this on, it's just what I think. :))

    Interesting theory. Keep in mind that Moore already held the record for "consecutive" movies with Octopussy.
    Holding the record for most Bond films overall is somewhat dubious, considering all the criticism of being too old for the part.

    Honestly, I'm surprised Moore didn't retire after Moonraker.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    He was originally supposed to leave after MR.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    King Kamal wrote:

    Cons
    [list=*]
    [*]Moore's age
    Silly KGB/Ivanova sub plot
    Poor MI6 Scenes
    Cringeworthy end scenes
    The Iceberg sub thing
    Fire Engine chase and San Fran cops[/*]
    [/list]

    Of your list of cons the only ones I can agree with are Moore's age and the fire engine chase. I admit the cops were not great, but still far better than JW Pepper.

    Iceberg submarine = Awesome. Love when Bond spots the union jack hatch.

    KGB plot = All bad guys must have some connection with the KGB. :)

    MI6 scenes = Not sure what you mean, but I love seeing Bond, Q, Moneypenny, and M all dressed up at the horse races.

    The briefing in M's office also describes the future plot of Goldeneye, which is pretty cool.

    End scene: What's wrong with Bond showering with the lady while being discovered by Q ? Seems pretty standard formula ending.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I'm not quite sure there was a conspiracy. Dalton and Brosnan were working on other projects. Lazenby and Connery were out of the question. And at the time, I'm sure lots of people who grew up on Moore wanted to keep Moore as their Bond.

    Moore probably stayed as long as he did, not because he was better or more important than Connery, but because finding a replacement for Moore wasn't easy.
  • Moore ThanMoore Than EnglandPosts: 3,173MI6 Agent
    Moore probably stayed as long as he did, not because he was better or more important than Connery, but because finding a replacement for Moore wasn't easy.

    Finding a replacement wasn't easy. But my feeling is that Roger Moore only stayed on as long as he did because Sean Connery returned in Never Say Never Again. Cubby Broccoli could not risk putting a new actor up against Connery. Roger was then given A View To A Kill as a thank you for winning the "Battle of the Bonds"
    Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    {[] I concur ( to quote TMWTGG) ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Moore Than wrote:
    But my feeling is that Roger Moore only stayed on as long as he did because Sean Connery returned in Never Say Never Again.

    Good point. It was seen as a rivalry. A new Bond would've been more risky so they hedged their bets with continuing Moore. Nowadays, people like Connery more than Moore, but from the viewpoint of the early 1980's, Moore was the one doing it and Connery was a memory in the past.
  • Moore ThanMoore Than EnglandPosts: 3,173MI6 Agent
    Moore Than wrote:
    But my feeling is that Roger Moore only stayed on as long as he did because Sean Connery returned in Never Say Never Again.

    Good point. It was seen as a rivalry. A new Bond would've been more risky so they hedged their bets with continuing Moore. Nowadays, people like Connery more than Moore, but from the viewpoint of the early 1980's, Moore was the one doing it and Connery was a memory in the past.

    In the UK at least. In the early 1980's all of Sean Connery's six EON films were being regularly broadcast on TV, whereas by that time only three of Roger Moore's were. In those days there was a five year gap between cinema release and TV release. Video recorders/tapes were not yet widely available. So Connery was anything but a memory in that regard. And I believe he was still seen as the quintessential Bond by the majority of the critics, I clearly remember headlines such as "The real Bond is back". And I would say the majority of the public also preferred Connery. Certainly in my neck of the woods, especially the women.
    Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    Moore Than wrote:
    So Connery was anything but a memory in that regard. And I believe he was still seen as the quintessential Bond by the majority of the critics, I clearly remember headlines such as "The real Bond is back". And I would say the majority of the public also preferred Connery. Certainly in my neck of the woods, especially the women.

    That's my recollection as well. -{
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    That's my recollection as well. -{
    I concur!
    :v
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I wasn't around at the time, so I wouldn't know. So, like said above, it was a rivalry between the older generation's Bond and the younger generation's Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I wasn't around at the time, so I wouldn't know. So, like said above, it was a rivalry between the older generation's Bond and the younger generation's Bond.
    You were the not-yet generation and thus had no Bond! :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
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