51

Re: Spectre, one year later

Revs1972 wrote:

Well then there's the whole third act and of course destroying an actual historic real building in London.

But the building was set for demolition after the damage it sustained in Skyfall. It just came forward on the schedule a bit.

Though the damage was significant, I find it hard to believe that it warranted demolishing the entire building as the majority of the building was unaffected. In Spectre the damage was shown to be far more significant than it was in Skyfall, but the events of Skyfall did not warrant the demolition of the building. Maybe it's possible that the SIS requested that the Bond series no longer use their building in their films (perhaps so tourists like me don't snoop around to check out the building), but that's unlikely.

52

Re: Spectre, one year later

Interesting how in sf m doesn't refer to the building as destroyed at all,  when she's talking to Silva she simply alludes to the memorial wall in building he attacked.  She even says she is having his name struck off that wall. As Matt S says the damage sustained in sf was not that bad,  in fact no worse really than in twine.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

53

Re: Spectre, one year later

I think I said this here before but I think the first 10-15 minutes of SP are damn near perfect. An excellent PTS, followed by a mediocre song and credits, but all the "back to basics" scenes in London are wonderful. Its only once Bond actually gets to Rome that the adventure starts to fall apart and gets increasingly boring.

54

Re: Spectre, one year later

walther p99 wrote:

I think I said this here before but I think the first 10-15 minutes of SP are damn near perfect. An excellent PTS, followed by a mediocre song and credits, but all the "back to basics" scenes in London are wonderful. Its only once Bond actually gets to Rome that the adventure starts to fall apart and gets increasingly boring.

I think the film is excellent right up until the conclusion of the train fight. I dislike everything about it after that point.

55

Re: Spectre, one year later

SP has not changed at all for me the film sets itself up to be exactly what it is escapism! I don't take SP too seriously and do enjoy it... Though the final act is lacking.

'...exceptionally fine shot...'

56

Re: Spectre, one year later

Miles Messervy wrote:
walther p99 wrote:

I think I said this here before but I think the first 10-15 minutes of SP are damn near perfect. An excellent PTS, followed by a mediocre song and credits, but all the "back to basics" scenes in London are wonderful. Its only once Bond actually gets to Rome that the adventure starts to fall apart and gets increasingly boring.

I think the film is excellent right up until the conclusion of the train fight. I dislike everything about it after that point.

Agreed, though I wouldn't rate it as excellent until then, rather "enjoyable".

Just when the film should be going from strength to strength with the introduction of  Blofeld, the writers seemed to run out of ideas: a pointless "personal" connection between Bond and Blofeld, a poorly written torture scene, inferior to Casino Royale's; a terribly written climax in the Mi6 building in London where Bond is more like "the man from Milk Tray" and as for the shooting of the helicopter out of the sky... ajb007/crap

I remember the speculation about Blofeld returning over the years and the suggestion that he not be bald because of the Austin Powers connotations and then the writers effectively make Bond and Blofeld half brothers! Are they secretly taking the p!££ or what?!?!

It beggars belief that the writers couldn't make something more of this film given the promising start...but they blew it in my opinion.

Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".

57

Re: Spectre, one year later

I just wish it was better, seems to lack the script and seems lazy, the set prices are great but.. And Craig looks bored, like he's almost about to wink at the camera

58

Re: Spectre, one year later

I saw it again recently as well, and the whole movie just seems filler-y, like nothing inside of it really matters. It almost seems rather small scope, this is in great contrast to Skyfall, of course. It just feels pointless.

The one thing that has grown on me is the Nine Eyes subplot, but the movie is a bit too busy to devote enough time to it.

59

Re: Spectre, one year later

Oakvale wrote:

I saw it again recently as well, and the whole movie just seems filler-y, like nothing inside of it really matters. It almost seems rather small scope, this is in great contrast to Skyfall, of course. It just feels pointless.

The one thing that has grown on me is the Nine Eyes subplot, but the movie is a bit too busy to devote enough time to it.

I like the subplot too, but it's too separated from the main plot, especially since Bond isn't even involved with it at all. It only contributes to the film being unfocused and messy. It would have been good if it was more connected to what Bond was doing. By contrast, TMWTGG connects the plot of Bond hunting down Scaramanga along with the Solex subplot very well.

60

Re: Spectre, one year later

Matt S wrote:
Oakvale wrote:

I saw it again recently as well, and the whole movie just seems filler-y, like nothing inside of it really matters. It almost seems rather small scope, this is in great contrast to Skyfall, of course. It just feels pointless.

The one thing that has grown on me is the Nine Eyes subplot, but the movie is a bit too busy to devote enough time to it.

I like the subplot too, but it's too separated from the main plot, especially since Bond isn't even involved with it at all. It only contributes to the film being unfocused and messy. It would have been good if it was more connected to what Bond was doing. By contrast, TMWTGG connects the plot of Bond hunting down Scaramanga along with the Solex subplot very well.

I'm with you guys...there was no need for the Bond-Blofeld 'family' link at all, there was enough 'going on' for that not to be needed...in fact it kinda spoils the movie for me  ajb007/crap

YNWA: Justice For The 96

Sometimes no news is just bad news taking it's fvcking time

61

Re: Spectre, one year later

Sir Miles wrote:
Matt S wrote:
Oakvale wrote:

I saw it again recently as well, and the whole movie just seems filler-y, like nothing inside of it really matters. It almost seems rather small scope, this is in great contrast to Skyfall, of course. It just feels pointless.

The one thing that has grown on me is the Nine Eyes subplot, but the movie is a bit too busy to devote enough time to it.

I like the subplot too, but it's too separated from the main plot, especially since Bond isn't even involved with it at all. It only contributes to the film being unfocused and messy. It would have been good if it was more connected to what Bond was doing. By contrast, TMWTGG connects the plot of Bond hunting down Scaramanga along with the Solex subplot very well.

I'm with you guys...there was no need for the Bond-Blofeld 'family' link at all, there was enough 'going on' for that not to be needed...in fact it kinda spoils the movie for me  ajb007/crap

The family link has to be the worst thing about the movie. I think poor ideas are worse than poor execution. When the writers try too hard and try to throw too much into one movie, it's harder to pull off and there's more that can go wrong. Dr. No is one of the simplest Bond films, and that's one reason why it will always be so great. It may not be the most spectacular Bond film, but it holds together very well.

62

Re: Spectre, one year later

All the Bond films adapted from the Fleming novels are awesome:

Dr No, From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball, On Her Majesties Secret Service, Casino Royale.

We only start to hit hurdles when writers not of the ability of Fleming get involved.  Purvis and Wade spring to mind. 

I'd love John Le Carre to pen a James Bond novel.

CR, FRWl, SF, OHMSS, LTK, SPECTRE, GF, TB, TLD, TND, DN, TWINE, FYEO, QOS, GE, LALD, TSWLM, OP, YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, DAD

"Do you expect me to talk?  "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"

63

Re: Spectre, one year later

UnderwaterBattle007 wrote:

I'd love John Le Carre to pen a James Bond novel.

I'm afraid you'll have to wait a long, long time for that.  For 50 years now Le Carre has been expressing his disdain for Bond; and he's said that Bond's weaknesses for women, gourmet foods and drink, and the luxuries in life would make him the perfect traitor.  His novels are, if anything, anti-Bond.

Vox clamantis in deserto

64

Re: Spectre, one year later

I did not like spetre as much as the other films of Daniel Craig. I have saw it only one time but not to watch it again soon as i thougt it was not good with the Blofeld brother of Bond story.

65

Re: Spectre, one year later

It hasn't been that long, but hasn't "aged" that well for me.  I really enjoyed it the first time in the theater, though I thought the climax was a little weird.  It didn't feel like a Bond movie with all the secondary characters involved like an ensemble and Bond just walking away and leaving the baddie just chilling on a bridge under arrest.

It still has scenes I really enjoy like the opening, the car chase and the car/plane chase, I like using White's daughter as the Bond girl and of course I was excited to see SPECTRE/Blofeld back.  But more I see it the more I dislike the family connection between Bond and Blofeld, dislike the retcon of the previous films to put them all under the SPECTRE umbrella, still don't care for the climax, and I find the Nine Eyes subplot boring.  Had it been its own movie it might have made for something, but as an underdeveloped concept it's just a lot of two guys arguing about the future and ethics of the intelligence field.  It's not terrible though, it has a lot of good ingredients but feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. 

I enjoy all the Craig films (all the Bond films really, except Die Another Day), but I'd probably place it last on my list from his era.  Which isn't putting it down too much.  I thought Casino Royale and Skyfall were really good, and while Quantum Of Solace had its problems I really enjoyed it the first time around and  I've never really soured on it.

66

Re: Spectre, one year later

It is my second favourite Craig movie actually. Fantastic PTS, loved it that Spectre is back and the meeting in Rome had a classic feel to it. Also Craig is more comfortable in the role, even the humor is a lot better than in his previous outings. I liked how they brought the previous three films together to the Spectre climax and how Blofeld was the instrument of all his misery. I didn't mind the whole family relationship part either.

The only downside is maybe the last third of the movie. But this is something you see often with Bond movies; a great first 2/3's and a lousy final act. All in all, a very enjoyable movie. Cannot wait for the next one, although I don't think we should hang on too long to Blofeld as main villain.

OHMSS, FRWl, GF, CR, TB, GE, DN, S, YOLT, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD

1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore

67

Re: Spectre, one year later

I remember skipping it in theatres because of the disappointment from Skyfall, then picking the BR up on a whim.  I almost beat myself up over it as the first 30 to 45 minutes seemed to be channeling Skyfall with the cinematography over all else bent but then it suddenly and thankfully exploded into a really fun Bond romp.  The ending is especially satisfying and left me genuinely surprised that I enjoyed the movie. 

But, I will say I think it should be Craig's swan song.  At times, he felt old and worn out, which is good for this movie but terrible for another sequel playing off the same theme three movies in a row.

Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights

68

Re: Spectre, one year later

I think it's time for a Bond film to have the following elements:

Great PTS with no connection to the movie whatsoever like Goldfinger.

Bond gets his mission from M

Bond gets his gadets from Q

Then the main stand alone plot with twists and turns with car chases, speed boat chases etc.  I'd love a speed boat chase in Amsterdam like the one thats in the Alistair McClean film "Puppet On A Chain"

After defeating the villain, an ending with minor villains like in DAF.

Thats what I'm hoping for.  I'm fed up of Bond being a Rogue agent surely that storyline has now been exhausted.

CR, FRWl, SF, OHMSS, LTK, SPECTRE, GF, TB, TLD, TND, DN, TWINE, FYEO, QOS, GE, LALD, TSWLM, OP, YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, DAD

"Do you expect me to talk?  "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"

69

Re: Spectre, one year later

UnderwaterBattle007 wrote:

I think it's time for a Bond film to have the following elements:

Great PTS with no connection to the movie whatsoever like Goldfinger.

Bond gets his mission from M

Bond gets his gadets from Q

Then the main stand alone plot with twists and turns with car chases, speed boat chases etc.  I'd love a speed boat chase in Amsterdam like the one thats in the Alistair McClean film "Puppet On A Chain"

After defeating the villain, an ending with minor villains like in DAF.

Thats what I'm hoping for.  I'm fed up of Bond being a Rogue agent surely that storyline has now been exhausted.

Consensus is rare here (which is a good thing) but I feel that most of us are on the same page.

I don't have any friends

70

Re: Spectre, one year later

zaphod99 wrote:
UnderwaterBattle007 wrote:

I think it's time for a Bond film to have the following elements:

Great PTS with no connection to the movie whatsoever like Goldfinger.

Bond gets his mission from M

Bond gets his gadets from Q

Then the main stand alone plot with twists and turns with car chases, speed boat chases etc.  I'd love a speed boat chase in Amsterdam like the one thats in the Alistair McClean film "Puppet On A Chain"

After defeating the villain, an ending with minor villains like in DAF.

Thats what I'm hoping for.  I'm fed up of Bond being a Rogue agent surely that storyline has now been exhausted.

Consensus is rare here (which is a good thing) but I feel that most of us are on the same page.

At some point they must incorporate the whole "Garden Of Death" storyline from the novel of YOLT.  Maybe this is how Bond kills Blofeld in Bond 25 as per the novel, and then Bond falls of the Castle battlements and suffers amnesia and is kidnapped by one of the Bond girls.

Maybe then Bond 26 could feature the whole untold story of Bond regaining his memory going to Moscow and being kipnapped and brainwashed by the KGB.  Then returning to London to kill M, fails in his attempt he's sent to Shrublands and is then sent on a mission to prove he is fully ok.  In the novel TMWTGG that mission is to kill Scaramanga.

CR, FRWl, SF, OHMSS, LTK, SPECTRE, GF, TB, TLD, TND, DN, TWINE, FYEO, QOS, GE, LALD, TSWLM, OP, YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, DAD

"Do you expect me to talk?  "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"

71

Re: Spectre, one year later

UnderwaterBattle007 wrote:
zaphod99 wrote:
UnderwaterBattle007 wrote:

I think it's time for a Bond film to have the following elements:

Great PTS with no connection to the movie whatsoever like Goldfinger.

Bond gets his mission from M

Bond gets his gadets from Q

Then the main stand alone plot with twists and turns with car chases, speed boat chases etc.  I'd love a speed boat chase in Amsterdam like the one thats in the Alistair McClean film "Puppet On A Chain"

After defeating the villain, an ending with minor villains like in DAF.

Thats what I'm hoping for.  I'm fed up of Bond being a Rogue agent surely that storyline has now been exhausted.

Consensus is rare here (which is a good thing) but I feel that most of us are on the same page.

At some point they must incorporate the whole "Garden Of Death" storyline from the novel of YOLT.  Maybe this is how Bond kills Blofeld in Bond 25 as per the novel, and then Bond falls of the Castle battlements and suffers amnesia and is kidnapped by one of the Bond girls.

Maybe then Bond 26 could feature the whole untold story of Bond regaining his memory going to Moscow and being kipnapped and brainwashed by the KGB.  Then returning to London to kill M, fails in his attempt he's sent to Shrublands and is then sent on a mission to prove he is fully ok.  In the novel TMWTGG that mission is to kill Scaramanga.

I like this sort of idea. It'd be a good opportunity to film BONDs 25 & 26 back-to-back. Release BOND 25 in late 2018, BOND 26 in mid to late 2019. This way they could secure Daniel Craig for two films without a long break between the two. Then release BOND 27 with a new actor as 007 in 2022 - the 60th Anniversary year. And if anybody thinks this would be messing round with things too much I wouldn't worry. Daniel Craig's tenure has been one long messing around with Bond lore for ten years.

72

Re: Spectre, one year later

I too recently rewatched it for the first time since seeing it in the theatre
as noted elsewhere, I've always had some serious issues regarding Blofeld:
1) having a childhood relation with Bond
2) being "behind everything", just to get back at Bond

I was hoping both these plot points were just found in isolated bits of dialog, so that in theory one could do a fan-edit and trim out a few sentences, leaving a much more acceptable story
that was actually how I remembered it, but it turns out that, once he and Bond meet in his desert headquarters,  basically every single line WaltzBlofeld speaks is developing one or both of these two irritating concepts

even when Bond eavesdrops in on the big meeting, Blofeld turns to face him and says "cuckoo" and some other dialog establishing they already know each other ... this scene is otherwise nightmarish and perhaps the best in the film after the opening, yet Bond's identification and escape would not make sense without Blofeld suddenly making those creepy personal references: the sequence does not work without that

then their dialogs at the crater HQ ... I could accept that Blofeld was the real brains behind QUANTUM and Silva, though it would be conspicuous retconning and unpersuasive ... but, he keeps saying all these criminal activities he was actually behind for the past three films were all motivated entirely by his childhood grudge against Bond, over and over again until the torture scene starts ... there is no single discrete line that could be removed to make it all better, if we are to accept this film at all we have to swallow all this revisionist backstory

perhaps in the next film they can halfsalvage it by Blofeld being shown to have lied about his motivations, just to mess with Bond
i.e. he was still behind QUANTUM and Silva, but because these were lucrative criminal enterprises ... then while he had Bond where he wanted him, he deliberately lied about his motivations just to wind him up, because he knows CraigBond is a bit unbalanced, overemotional, and sensitive to the Vesper issue , so he was deliberately pressing the right buttons to hurt him, psychological torture ... after all, he literally drills into Bond's brain one scene later, and he replays the video footage of Mr Whites suicide to mess with Swann (and the implicated Bond), so sure, he also makes additional extravagant claims just to make Bond feel bad: retconning the retcon could be simple here
the fosterbrother thing however could not be so easily undone, I think there is dialog between Moneypenny and Bond establishing the relationship before the crater HQ sequence, and the "cuckoo" remark would not make any sense if they did not really have that childhood relationship


anyways, given the intractable knottiness of the Blofeld-is-my-brother thing, that leaves the major bulk of the film unwatchable, and the ideal fan-edit therefor would be just the pre-credits sequence, that was pretty damn good

Last edited by caractacus potts (26th Apr 2017 14:58)

73

Re: Spectre, one year later

caractacus potts wrote:

I too recently rewatched it for the first time since seeing it in the theatre
as noted elsewhere, I've always had some serious issues regarding Blofeld:
1) having a childhood relation with Bond
2) being "behind everything", just to get back at Bond

I was hoping both these plot points were just found in isolated bits of dialog, so that in theory one could do a fan-edit and trim out a few sentences, leaving a much more acceptable story
that was actually how I remembered it, but it turns out that, once he and Bond meet in his desert headquarters,  basically every single line WaltzBlofeld speaks is developing one or both of these two irritating concepts

even when Bond eavesdrops in on the big meeting, Blofeld turns to face him and says "cuckoo" and some other dialog establishing they already know each other ... this scene is otherwise nightmarish and perhaps the best in the film after the opening, yet Bond's identification and escape would not make sense without Blofeld suddenly making those creepy personal references: the sequence does not work without that

then their dialogs at the crater HQ ... I could accept that Blofeld was the real brains behind QUANTUM and Silva, though it would be conspicuous retconning and unpersuasive ... but, he keeps saying all these criminal activities he was actually behind for the past three films were all motivated entirely by his childhood grudge against Bond, over and over again until the torture scene starts ... there is no single discrete line that could be removed to make it all better, if we are to accept this film at all we have to swallow all this revisionist backstory

perhaps in the next film they can halfsalvage it by Blofeld being shown to have lied about his motivations, just to mess with Bond
i.e. he was still behind QUANTUM and Silva, but because these were lucrative criminal enterprises ... then while he had Bond where he wanted him, he deliberately lied about his motivations just to wind him up, because he knows CraigBond is a bit unbalanced, overemotional, and sensitive to the Vesper issue , so he was deliberately pressing the right buttons to hurt him, psychological torture ... after all, he literally drills into Bond's brain one scene later, and he replays the video footage of Mr Whites suicide to mess with Swann (and the implicated Bond), so sure, he also makes additional extravagant claims just to make Bond feel bad: retconning the retcon could be simple here
the fosterbrother thing however could not be so easily undone, I think there is dialog between Moneypenny and Bond establishing the relationship before the crater HQ sequence, and the "cuckoo" remark would not make any sense if they did not really have that childhood relationship


anyways, given the intractable knottiness of the Blofeld-is-my-brother thing, that leaves the major bulk of the film unwatchable, and the ideal fan-edit therefor would be just the pre-credits sequence, that was pretty damn good

Blofeld's motivation in SP was so pathetic. He did ALL that just because of a childhood grudge like 40 years ago? seriously? Atleast I can grasp why Silva would become mentally hell-bent with revenge against M.

74

Re: Spectre, one year later

Ever since first seeing it in the cinema I refused to believe the Blofeld - Bond connection and in my head I accept it as Blofeld messing with Bonds head.  When I first realised what the writers had done I though " they didn't just do that?" " they bloody well did just do that!! "
I enjoy the film a lot,  I think I've just got used to the glaring potholes and the writers treating us all like idiots.  Remarkably qos was the last film who's story and script wasn't completey riddled with such issues.  I would hate to see mendes return as I think he has done the franchise and dc no favours in the long term.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

75

Re: Spectre, one year later

It's just another example of the childish, sophomore writing infesting the Bond movies of the modern age. QOS is headache inducing to watch for me but it's the only Craig film that isn't riddled with obvious, immature or just plain illogical scriptwriting...probably because its so short. Everyone wants to be Nolan nowadays. They seem to forget that, unlike them, Nolan has talent.

Look at The Dark Knight. The main characters were all linked through the thematic thrust of the film, not through contrived, obvious writing.