The only one I can strongly say I prefer the 1st hour is DAD. And massively so. I thought the 1st half was very impressive but he 2nd half.. well I think we all know the general consensus. In fact I don't think I've known a film with quite contrasting first and second hours.
SKYFALL, clearly, it practically hits you in the face.
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
The only one I can strongly say I prefer the 1st hour is DAD. And massively so. I thought the 1st half was very impressive but he 2nd half.. well I think we all know the general consensus. In fact I don't think I've known a film with quite contrasting first and second hours.
SKYFALL, clearly, it practically hits you in the face.
The only one I can strongly say I prefer the 1st hour is DAD. And massively so. I thought the 1st half was very impressive but he 2nd half.. well I think we all know the general consensus. In fact I don't think I've known a film with quite contrasting first and second hours.
SKYFALL, clearly, it practically hits you in the face.
How?
Well, let's cut Skyfall into to four main pieces.
The first one starts from the pre-titles sequence, goes into enjoying death territory, tests and ends when Bond and Q meet.
The second part is, quite obviously, the scenes set in China (CHYNA!) and ends when Bond and the SAS bring Silva in with the helicopters.
The last two parts are the second hour of the movie. As you see, there's a trend that had become increasingly tired when you get to the second hour of the movie. Setup-->Mission--->Consequences. It's done in such a boring way in the second hour of the movie.
It starts from Silva and M meeting, continues throughout his escape, arrival at Scotland and ends with Bond and M setting up the house for the impending attack. The "setup" if you will.
The last part is the final stand of Bond, M and the sawn-off shotgun guy. It of course, ends by the time M passes away.
What remains of the film is reflection that drags on for two long. I think we got the point, end film!
That's my main problem with Skyfall.
Yes, the mission had to be set up so that Bond could follow Silva and the assassin but doing it twice once he's wrapped up and secured, feels like it could've been two different movies.
The first one is a relatively good one and could stand on its own. A proto-SPECTRE if you will but without the humour.
The second one, once you've already seen the first one, doesn't feel as grand or good when you compare the two.
Skyfall, as it stands, is the only movie that I can enjoy a certain part of, it being the Shanghai, even if some people find them distracting. If it had a better score during those scenes, it could've been a runner up for one of my favourite parts in a Craig-era movie.
In my eyes, SPECTRE greatly improved on these problems and it feels like a much more polished, balanced film than Skyfall.
Add in some humour and it became the most watchable film in the series, for me, anyway. Unlike its predecessor, it never dragged anywhere.
The last two parts are the second hour of the movie. As you see, there's a trend that had become increasingly tired when you get to the second hour of the movie. Setup-->Mission--->Consequences. It's done in such a boring way in the second hour of the movie.
when you put it like that, I see something I never saw before
so Skyfall and SPECTRE both share the same structure, I knew that. The bit that should be the epic conclusion comes instead midway, and is rushed, barely signified, and instead in both cases the action returns to London and rambles on with lots of scenes for M. As you put it, The Mission we expect from a Bond film is the first half, then the second half in both cases is The Consequences.
So what I didn't see before is how Casino Royale fits into this and maybe to blame.
Back when I first read the book as a lad, I noticed right away the odd structure of the book, that did not at all fit the formulaic thriller structure seen in all the films up til that point and most of Fleming's other books. I even wondered if that was why there'd never been a proper movie made of it (not yet understanding the divided film-rights). After all they threw out all of The Spy Who Loved Me and most of the first half of From Russia With Love, two other Fleming books with atypical plot structures.
But when a proper adaptation of Casino Royale finally was made, the filmmakers embraced Fleming's structure and ran with it (also packing in barely related hardaction overload into a tacked on first half).
So as with Fleming's book, the business with Le Chiffre is actually just the setup for the real conflict, which is with Vesper. The business with Le Chiffre is easy, black-and-white cowboys-and-indians stuff. The revelation Vesper has been a traitor all along is messy, and is the real intellectual meat of the novel, and the film.
So maybe the Broccoli kids decided they liked that sort of structure better and tried to make it into its own formula for these last two films?
(I cant remember Quantum... well enough to say if it also fits into the 1.mission/2.consequences structure, that whole film just seems like an endless mishmash of barely related hardaction overload with no structure whatsoever)
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
Can I ask why you like the first half of AVTAK more than the second?
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
Can I ask why you like the first half of AVTAK more than the second?
I can answer for why I prefer the first half of AVTAK. Roger Moore is so perfect as James St. John Smythe, and I love Patrick Macnee. Plus, there's no screaming Stacey.
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
Can I ask why you like the first half of AVTAK more than the second?
I can answer for why I prefer the first half of AVTAK. Roger Moore is so perfect as James St. John Smythe, and I love Patrick Macnee. Plus, there's no screaming Stacey.
I also love the pre title sequence, even California Girls.
The only part that really drags are some of the chateau scenes.
I have a feeling more older movies had a better last half and more newer movies were best in the begining.
YOLT was better in the last hour than the first. SPECTRE was better in the first hour than the second. Perhaps those two are the best examples.
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
Can I ask why you like the first half of AVTAK more than the second?
Don't really know. Unlike most people who like AVTAK, I actually enjoy the chateau scenes, and especially the Eiffel Tower/Paris sequence. In fact, I think the actual ending in the mine shaft is most boring to me, it's a bit of a let down from the fire engine chase and before the Golden Gate Bridge scenes.
Interesting. I prefer for most movies the first half. I guess I like the build up of the mission, Bond finding his way, snooping around. The second half or final third, it usually falls flat for me.
Movies that are quite consistent throughout the whole films are:
Dr No
Goldfinger
OHMSS
LALD
TMWTGG
TSWLM
Casino Royale
Skyfall
I cannot name any movie where I prefer the second half more than the first half actually.
Interesting. I prefer for most movies the first half. I guess I like the build up of the mission, Bond finding his way, snooping around. The second half or final third, it usually falls flat for me.
I feel the exact same way. First half is usually the best part.
Always thought the Paris scenes in AVTAK were slow and relatively boring. Tibbett going undercover as Bond's servant, when he's posing as St John Smythe, was hilarious!
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"
Always thought the Paris scenes in AVTAK were slow and relatively boring. Tibbett going undercover as Bond's servant, when he's posing as St John Smythe, was hilarious!
I wouldn't say overly boring, but the second half from the moment the film gets to San Francisco makes it one of my favourite entries for me.
Always thought the Paris scenes in AVTAK were slow and relatively boring. Tibbett going undercover as Bond's servant, when he's posing as St John Smythe, was hilarious!
I wouldn't say overly boring, but the second half from the moment the film gets to San Francisco makes it one of my favourite entries for me.
Not mad on the Paris scenes and chase - but I love all the scenes at Chantilly.
Always thought the Paris scenes in AVTAK were slow and relatively boring. Tibbett going undercover as Bond's servant, when he's posing as St John Smythe, was hilarious!
I wouldn't say overly boring, but the second half from the moment the film gets to San Francisco makes it one of my favourite entries for me.
Not mad on the Paris scenes and chase - but I love all the scenes at Chantilly.
I am not either, the one thing I hate about that chase is... and it's rhetorical... Roger Moore's visible stunt doubles while in the car. The sequence up until he jumps on the boat is actually pretty awesome, but it's ultimately disregarded by... not Roger Moore but lazy production.
Comments
SKYFALL, clearly, it practically hits you in the face.
.GF
.YOLT
.DAF
.LALD
.TMWTGG
.MR
.AVTAK
.TLD
.TND
.TWINE
.DAD
.SF
.SP
Second half
.OHMSS
.TSWLM
.FYEO
.OP
Entirety
.DN
.FRWL
.TB
.LTK
.GE
.CR
.QOS
-{
First Half:
GF
YOLT
DAF
TMWTGG
TSWLM
MR
OP
Second Half:
FRWL
AVTAK
CR
SF
The rest were consistent throughout, whether good or bad.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
For instance, I like LTK all the way through. However, because we spend so long on the Wavekrest near the start, it's all the more satisfying when Bond escapes in the plane.
It's a bit like TSWLM. Bond spends so long trapped on the tanker, that when the submarine finally managed to get out just in time, it's a satisfying end to the entire tanker sequence. You feel like Bond has worked hard to get out.
I enjoy most of the film's all the way through, but if I had to decide:
- DN - 2nd half
- FRWL - 2nd half
- GF - 1st half
- TB - 1st half
- YOLT - 1st half
- OHMSS - 2nd half
- DAF - 1st half
- LALD - 2nd half
- TMWTGG - 1st half
- TSWLM - 1st half
- MR - 1st half
- FYEO - 1st half
- OP - 2nd half
- AVTAK - 1st half
- TLD - 1st half
- LTK - 2nd half
- GE - 2nd half
- TND - 1st half
- TWINE - 2nd half
- DAD - 2nd half (whilst the first half may be better in terms of quality, the second half is much more fun)
- CR - 1st half
- QoS - 2nd half
- SF - 2nd half
- SP - 1st half
The first one starts from the pre-titles sequence, goes into enjoying death territory, tests and ends when Bond and Q meet.
The second part is, quite obviously, the scenes set in China (CHYNA!) and ends when Bond and the SAS bring Silva in with the helicopters.
The last two parts are the second hour of the movie. As you see, there's a trend that had become increasingly tired when you get to the second hour of the movie. Setup-->Mission--->Consequences. It's done in such a boring way in the second hour of the movie.
It starts from Silva and M meeting, continues throughout his escape, arrival at Scotland and ends with Bond and M setting up the house for the impending attack. The "setup" if you will.
The last part is the final stand of Bond, M and the sawn-off shotgun guy. It of course, ends by the time M passes away.
What remains of the film is reflection that drags on for two long. I think we got the point, end film!
That's my main problem with Skyfall.
Yes, the mission had to be set up so that Bond could follow Silva and the assassin but doing it twice once he's wrapped up and secured, feels like it could've been two different movies.
The first one is a relatively good one and could stand on its own. A proto-SPECTRE if you will but without the humour.
The second one, once you've already seen the first one, doesn't feel as grand or good when you compare the two.
Skyfall, as it stands, is the only movie that I can enjoy a certain part of, it being the Shanghai, even if some people find them distracting. If it had a better score during those scenes, it could've been a runner up for one of my favourite parts in a Craig-era movie.
In my eyes, SPECTRE greatly improved on these problems and it feels like a much more polished, balanced film than Skyfall.
Add in some humour and it became the most watchable film in the series, for me, anyway. Unlike its predecessor, it never dragged anywhere.
so Skyfall and SPECTRE both share the same structure, I knew that. The bit that should be the epic conclusion comes instead midway, and is rushed, barely signified, and instead in both cases the action returns to London and rambles on with lots of scenes for M. As you put it, The Mission we expect from a Bond film is the first half, then the second half in both cases is The Consequences.
So what I didn't see before is how Casino Royale fits into this and maybe to blame.
Back when I first read the book as a lad, I noticed right away the odd structure of the book, that did not at all fit the formulaic thriller structure seen in all the films up til that point and most of Fleming's other books. I even wondered if that was why there'd never been a proper movie made of it (not yet understanding the divided film-rights). After all they threw out all of The Spy Who Loved Me and most of the first half of From Russia With Love, two other Fleming books with atypical plot structures.
But when a proper adaptation of Casino Royale finally was made, the filmmakers embraced Fleming's structure and ran with it (also packing in barely related hardaction overload into a tacked on first half).
So as with Fleming's book, the business with Le Chiffre is actually just the setup for the real conflict, which is with Vesper. The business with Le Chiffre is easy, black-and-white cowboys-and-indians stuff. The revelation Vesper has been a traitor all along is messy, and is the real intellectual meat of the novel, and the film.
So maybe the Broccoli kids decided they liked that sort of structure better and tried to make it into its own formula for these last two films?
(I cant remember Quantum... well enough to say if it also fits into the 1.mission/2.consequences structure, that whole film just seems like an endless mishmash of barely related hardaction overload with no structure whatsoever)
Can I ask why you like the first half of AVTAK more than the second?
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
I can answer for why I prefer the first half of AVTAK. Roger Moore is so perfect as James St. John Smythe, and I love Patrick Macnee. Plus, there's no screaming Stacey.
The only part that really drags are some of the chateau scenes.
DN - 2nd half
FRWL - 2nd half
GF - 1st half
TB - 2nd half
YOLT - 1st half
OHMSS - 2nd half
DAF - 1st half
LALD - 2nd half
TMWTGG - 2nd half
TSWLM - 1st half
MR - 1st half
FYEO - 2nd half
OP - 2nd half
AVTAK - 1st half
TLD - 1st half
LTK - 2nd half
GE - 2nd half
TND - 1st half
TWINE - 1st half
DAD - 1st half
CR - 2nd half
QOS - 1st half
SF - 2nd half
SP - 1st half
I also prefer the second half of FYEO over the first.
YOLT was better in the last hour than the first. SPECTRE was better in the first hour than the second. Perhaps those two are the best examples.
Don't really know. Unlike most people who like AVTAK, I actually enjoy the chateau scenes, and especially the Eiffel Tower/Paris sequence. In fact, I think the actual ending in the mine shaft is most boring to me, it's a bit of a let down from the fire engine chase and before the Golden Gate Bridge scenes.
Better first half:
GF
YOLT
LALD
TMWTGG
TSWLM
MR
OP
Better second half:
FRWL
OHMSS
AVTAK
LTK
CR
SF
The rest are just as good throughout... IMO.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Movies that are quite consistent throughout the whole films are:
Dr No
Goldfinger
OHMSS
LALD
TMWTGG
TSWLM
Casino Royale
Skyfall
I cannot name any movie where I prefer the second half more than the first half actually.
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
I wouldn't say overly boring, but the second half from the moment the film gets to San Francisco makes it one of my favourite entries for me.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Not mad on the Paris scenes and chase - but I love all the scenes at Chantilly.
"Better make that two."
I am not either, the one thing I hate about that chase is... and it's rhetorical... Roger Moore's visible stunt doubles while in the car. The sequence up until he jumps on the boat is actually pretty awesome, but it's ultimately disregarded by... not Roger Moore but lazy production.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan