26

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Sillhoutte Man wrote:

What are our collective thoughts on these two villains - 'Major' Brad Whitaker, arms dealer and the KGB General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights. Are either of them convincing as credible James Bond villains. As there are two 'big bads' here, does the Bond villainy get rather diluted as a result. There was a similar experiment with Prince Kamal Khan and General Orlov in Octopussy, but that seemed to work better and Khan probably had more screen-time than Orlov did.

From Russia With Love proves a Bondfilm can work with two principal villains. Thunderball also, because I think Volpe is not subordinate to Largo. In both these films we know the real big baddy is the as-yet-unseen/unnamed Blofeld. Still, in each case good actors giving scenery-chewing performances and have well defined roles within  highly memorable plots.

The Living Daylights is much more rambling and shapeless to begin with. After the bit from Flemings story it is difficult to follow any logic linking the various scenes together, and at the end I cant say what the whole story was really all about. If the scenes do connect, they don't add up to an overall plot. A bit like For Your Eyes Only, in that its really a series of overlapping episodes in the life of James Bond linked by some common characters, but the connections are sloppier in tLD than FYEO.

27

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

I really like Koskov and Whitaker, though a lot of that has to do with my fondness for Jeroen Krabbe and Joe Don Baker, both of whom are terrific actors.

Koskov isn't very intimidating, but I like that he starts off as seemingly foolish and harmless before his true colors are revealed.

I love TLD. It's hard for me to find fault with it.

28

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

In the spirit of my "projecting a conclusion without any convincing evidence" posts on a few other threads, imagine that Koskov and Whitaker are romantically involved with each other.  Now, go back and watch the film again.

29

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

^ I guess it's difficult based on the Byzantium plot that they're just a bunch of desperados who are in the end - laughably pathetic. That's not a criticism because it plays into the whole idea that smiert spionam is taken so seriously by MI6 and the whole folly of taking in Koskov as a defector. The whole thing largely plays against MI6 and the villains and plays well to Bond and Pushkin.

Whitaker gets a lot of flak as a villian. I can see why because he's largely a joke, but I like the way he plays the character. He's not menacing and he's not scary - but a nutter who isn't getting things his way - but joining another nutter, he nearly does. Whitaker reminds me of Trump. In the world of film, it's amusing.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"Family motto."

30

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

My theory is that very frequently there is a version of a romantic triangle involving Bond, the or a Bond girl and the villain. Examples are legion- Bond/Domino/Largo is pretty obvious, but Bond/Solitaire/Kananga, Bond/Paris/Carver, Bond/Bibi/Kristatos, Bond/Tracy/Blofeld and many others exist.
Therefore since there's a Bond/Kara/Koskov triangle, as well as 007 having a grudge against Koskov for his fake defection making his organisation a laughing stock, Koskov is the villain of TLD whether Whitaker outranks him or not. Koskov and Bond know each other, they have a relationship (initially bordering on friendly, until Bond sees what the score is) whereas Bond and Whitaker don't meet till the ending.
In FRWL, Blofeld outranks Klebb but Klebb is the main villain (she lusts unsuccessfully after Tania, and 007 never meets Number One in the film). In OP Kamal lusts vainly after Octopussy and he and Bond clash in classic Fleming situations (gambling, over dinner), while Bond and Orlov have one conversation. Orlov's death doesn't end the film- Kamal's does. He's the villain.

11 songs done for next CD- one being discarded- now the mixing & mastering begins.

31

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Hmmm, by the standards of a JB movie villains, they're pretty generic.  My opinion of Whittaker is kind of informed by his character in the first two Brosnan movies; I never could get the hang of Wade, he's annoying and he's Not Leiter.  So, having seen TLD after GE and TND, it's like he's the same guy, but gone wrong.  I like it when Bond dispatches him, in the way that Bond smiles in Casino Royale when he detonates the would-be bomber.

As for Koskov, I just like him.  He's so hapless and hopeless unless you get him going on orchestrating an international scheme.  I think it's interesting that he's strictly not a fighter, and there just isn't going to be a physical fight with him because he'd fall over if you flicked his nose.  Even after the end I like him.  It's kind of fun that you have this guy who after setting up all kinds of international problems, you give him a big hug of affection...and then cart him off to some posh prison.  Never let him out, mind.  But maybe he'd be fun to visit and share a drink and a card game once in a blue moon.

Last edited by Desert Kris (11th Oct 2017 21:02)

32

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here: I think Koskov and Whittaker are two of the best villains in the series, partly because they're different and partly because they're believable.

I've never met anybody like the icy, masterful psychopaths that make up most Bond villains, but I have certainly met people like Koskov and Whittaker. Koskov is a real slimeball: an insincere, sybaritic manipulator and compulsive liar whose outward friendliness masks a deeply treacherous personality. Jeroen Krabbé plays him perfectly, making him appear particularly repulsive through his habit of invading people's personal space and touching them without invitation.

Whittaker is genuinely dangerous in a different way: an insecure, overgrown child trapped in the body of a grown man. He's also come to believe his own bullshit, making the moment when Pushkin verbally takes him down brutally effective. Both Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are of this personality type, which is why international tensions are riding so high at the moment.

Both inadequate, both opportunistic and both hugely self-satisfied, they make a very effective team that would double-cross anybody without a second chance in order to line their pockets.

33

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Manxman wrote:

I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here: I think Koskov and Whittaker are two of the best villains in the series, partly because they're different and partly because they're believable.

I've never met anybody like the icy, masterful psychopaths that make up most Bond villains, but I have certainly met people like Koskov and Whittaker. Koskov is a real slimeball: an insincere, sybaritic manipulator and compulsive liar whose outward friendliness masks a deeply treacherous personality. Jeroen Krabbé plays him perfectly, making him appear particularly repulsive through his habit of invading people's personal space and touching them without invitation.

Whittaker is genuinely dangerous in a different way: an insecure, overgrown child trapped in the body of a grown man. He's also come to believe his own bullshit, making the moment when Pushkin verbally takes him down brutally effective. Both Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are of this personality type, which is why international tensions are riding so high at the moment.

Both inadequate, both opportunistic and both hugely self-satisfied, they make a very effective team that would double-cross anybody without a second chance in order to line their pockets.

My sentiments above.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"Family motto."

34

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Manxman wrote:

I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here: I think Koskov and Whittaker are two of the best villains in the series, partly because they're different and partly because they're believable.

I've never met anybody like the icy, masterful psychopaths that make up most Bond villains, but I have certainly met people like Koskov and Whittaker. Koskov is a real slimeball: an insincere, sybaritic manipulator and compulsive liar whose outward friendliness masks a deeply treacherous personality. Jeroen Krabbé plays him perfectly, making him appear particularly repulsive through his habit of invading people's personal space and touching them without invitation.

Whittaker is genuinely dangerous in a different way: an insecure, overgrown child trapped in the body of a grown man. He's also come to believe his own bullshit, making the moment when Pushkin verbally takes him down brutally effective. Both Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are of this personality type, which is why international tensions are riding so high at the moment.

Both inadequate, both opportunistic and both hugely self-satisfied, they make a very effective team that would double-cross anybody without a second chance in order to line their pockets.

Koskov and Whittaker are pretty weak sauce to me, but your point is very well-argued.  I like Kamal Khan for many of the same reasons.

Hilly...you old devil!

35

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Manxman wrote:

I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here: I think Koskov and Whittaker are two of the best villains in the series, partly because they're different and partly because they're believable.

I've never met anybody like the icy, masterful psychopaths that make up most Bond villains, but I have certainly met people like Koskov and Whittaker. Koskov is a real slimeball: an insincere, sybaritic manipulator and compulsive liar whose outward friendliness masks a deeply treacherous personality. Jeroen Krabbé plays him perfectly, making him appear particularly repulsive through his habit of invading people's personal space and touching them without invitation.

Whittaker is genuinely dangerous in a different way: an insecure, overgrown child trapped in the body of a grown man. He's also come to believe his own bullshit, making the moment when Pushkin verbally takes him down brutally effective. Both Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are of this personality type, which is why international tensions are riding so high at the moment.

Both inadequate, both opportunistic and both hugely self-satisfied, they make a very effective team that would double-cross anybody without a second chance in order to line their pockets.

Well put but I still find them both a bit like pantomime villains. I will re- watch with your take on it in mind.....

"To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield"

36

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

"pantomime villains"  ...... oh, No they're Not !  ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

37

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Well, there was a back end of a horse mentioned....
https://s1.postimg.org/2i494cgyp7/AA_OLD_MAN.jpg

11 songs done for next CD- one being discarded- now the mixing & mastering begins.

38

Re: Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

https://youtu.be/iHLqce9rBXY
The pantomime cow scene from Top Secret  ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."