was Moore a little fortunate to survive after two films?

Andy007Andy007 Posts: 100MI6 Agent
edited October 2017 in The James Bond Films
Now this is not a Moore bashing at all, and in hindsight I'm delighted he carried on in the role, but I do feel his first two films must've cast a little doubt as to whether he could take Bond into proper successful movies. Both LALD and TMWTGG both had a very average feel about them. Both had many silly elements involved and despite Moore fitting into the 70's style of these films, I don't believe we see Bond anywhere near his best in his first two outings. I prefer Moore's performance in TMWTGG, a bit tougher and definitely an improvement but both films seemed somewhat lacking. They continued the lighter style of DAF in some respects. The two-and-half year gap before Spy who loved Me was much needed don't you think? Would the producers have even considered a new Bond for the next one?
Ultimately they kept faith with Moore and it paid off, but when you consider the slagging Dalton got after his two films from large casual opinions, I feel that Roger was let off the hook a little, because people forget the lack of inpact his first two movies had in the series. I honestly think Dalton for instance contributed far more to the Bond series in his two films than Roger did in LALD and TMWTGG. Were TLD and LTK much better films than Moore's first two - YES they were imo. I'm glad Moore succeeded in the role but big question marks were there before The Spy who loved Me I think.

Comments

  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    I got the impression Moore in the early 70s was hot property after the success of his two TV shows and they probably thought that it would be a shame to waste him just after two films.
    He also got along much better with producers, after learning from their mistakes with Lazenby and Moore was a much smoother operator and far easier to work with than either of them.
    I think that these were all factors to keep Moore on board.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Andy007Andy007 Posts: 100MI6 Agent
    Yeah good points. Also Moore was under contract for a 3rd film, so they would've had to fire him from the role. That's something Cubby would've felt was harsh. He probably realised LALD and TMWTGG were shot too close together, and they needed more time to come up with something better. Much better in fact. As you say Moore was a big name for them in the 70's and he was good to work with. He offered stability in that sense.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,906MI6 Agent
    I don't think at that point Brocolli would have wanted to go through the casting process all over again. Saltzman had just left and the series was in danger of not continuing at all, so bringing in yet another untested Bond actor would have been the worst move Brocolli could have made at that time. Besides, I think they had wanted Moore for a long time anyway, and may have known any problems with Moore's first two films were not Moore's fault. Keep the actor, change everything else around him. It worked.

    Dalton would have done a third but financial legal type problems delayed it by six years. My understanding is they asked him to do Goldeneye, but as a condition he would have to commit to a brand new multi-film contract. Which makes sense if they're trying to successfully revive a series, but its not as if he got fired. More like he turned them down.
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,757MI6 Agent
    I think Roger was in no more or less danger than the series as a whole. And TSWLM was a difficult production on top of that looming in the background, so it’s amazing things turned out so well.

    EON has only spurned one actor that I’m aware of, and that’s Pierce Brosnan. Usually they are a risk-averse group that would rather go to the well until it’s run dry. The casting of Daniel Craig in Bond 25 - when a change would have been ripe - is consistent with the longstanding approach that saw Moore reprise the role so many times.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    LALD was a huge hit. I doubt they'd have even
    Considered another actor.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Gotta love „casual opinions“ which means „casual audiences“ .... :v
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    Moore was massively successful in the role from day one, I can clearly recall (one of the few benefits of being old enough to have seen DAF and all the subsequent films at the cinema). If anything, TMWTGG as a series entry was under-par and was saved by Sir Roger and Christopher Lee’s performances.
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    LALD was a huge hit. I doubt they'd have even
    Considered another actor.

    That's what would've kept him around...and the contract.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Or: " Wasn't Cubby Lucky Sir Roger stayed as long as he did "
    Though I appreciate the op isn't bashing Sir Roger, I would just say that imho it just fuels that " Moore -the comedy bond" or the tired creepy old man and too old sentiment that is rife. Sir Roger roundly whipped big Sean in the box office when op went up against NSNA. He made good money for the franchise, has some major bond iconic moments and put in a varied and versatile performance throughout his tenure, and he managed it all with a twinkle in his eye. No one knows better than Sir Roger how lucky he was to get the role but he made it his own and is the epitome of movie Bond for many.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    I think that he truly loved his job (his self-depricating humour notwithstanding) and it truly showed in the film. The fact that he still Bonded with fans up until his death is evidence of that.
    Sean at 41 lacked the energy and young looks that Roger had at 46.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,172MI6 Agent
    Moore was massively successful in the role from day one, I can clearly recall (one of the few benefits of being old enough to have seen DAF and all the subsequent films at the cinema). If anything, TMWTGG as a series entry was under-par and was saved by Sir Roger and Christopher Lee’s performances.

    At the risk of being accused of foolish consistency, that should be ". . . by Sir Roger and Sir Christopher's performances . . ."
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,238MI6 Agent
    I sort of know what the OP means, but Moore was still hot property most likely thru reruns of The Saint on telly even well into the 70s so that would have made it easier than bedding in a new Bond. And LALD was a strong entry.

    Also, they didn't know how long the Bond thing would go on for - maybe two more movies? So why bother to recast when there might be only two films left in the tank.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,416Chief of Staff
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Moore was massively successful in the role from day one, I can clearly recall (one of the few benefits of being old enough to have seen DAF and all the subsequent films at the cinema). If anything, TMWTGG as a series entry was under-par and was saved by Sir Roger and Christopher Lee’s performances.

    At the risk of being accused of foolish consistency, that should be ". . . by Sir Roger and Sir Christopher's performances . . ."

    Alas neither are knights of the realm now... :(
    YNWA 97
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    :( :( :(
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Though I appreciate the op isn't bashing Sir Roger,  I would just say that imho it just fuels that " Moore -the comedy bond" or the tired creepy old man and too old sentiment that is rife.

    I'm keen to defend Moore as much as the next person but I do think this is a fair question considering the fact Bond was a little lost after TWTGG. Yes they both made a good haul at the BO - but Bond was a bit rudderless at the time.

    Lucky the machine that produced TSWLM solidified Moore as Bond - was there talk at the time of TSWLM me having someone other than Moore in it?
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Perhaps the tide is turning, Brosnan bashing was popular for a few years, so perhaps now it's
    Dear old Roger's turn ? Usual it starts with a few questions such as this then slowly gets added
    To, snowballing eventually to almost outright hostility. :D
    I predict after Daniel leaves, he too will then get similar questions asked, was he lucky to have been
    Kept, after the poor showing of QOS ? Or after the mess of Spectre :))
    Like Bibi, some Bond Fans? Are Fickle. :p :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Or: " Wasn't Cubby Lucky Sir Roger stayed as long as he did "
    Though I appreciate the op isn't bashing Sir Roger, I would just say that imho it just fuels that " Moore -the comedy bond" or the tired creepy old man and too old sentiment that is rife.

    +1
    and it's not the first time that the op tries that!

    As far as I remember, there was not a shadow of a doubt that Roger Moore will do the next Bond after TMWTGG - I am recently reading a lot of rubbish from people that have no clue about how it has been in the 70s.
    They forget that those movies have been made for the cinemas back then and not for some pop-up Fan-Nerds who haven't anything better to do to dissect those gorgeous pieces of movie history on their computer screens and voice their immature opinions as facts X-(

    Yes I know that I sound grumpy - but that‘s the way I feel when I am reading those posts particularly in this section.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    As far as I remember, there was not a shadow of a doubt that Roger Moore will do the next Bond after TMWTGG

    Not that I can recall, either.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    It's all news to me too. Perhaps a bit of rewriting history :))
    Or has the Mandela effect spread even further. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,416Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Or: " Wasn't Cubby Lucky Sir Roger stayed as long as he did "
    Though I appreciate the op isn't bashing Sir Roger, I would just say that imho it just fuels that " Moore -the comedy bond" or the tired creepy old man and too old sentiment that is rife.

    +1
    and it's not the first time that the op tries that!

    As far as I remember, there was not a shadow of a doubt that Roger Moore will do the next Bond after TMWTGG - I am recently reading a lot of rubbish from people that have no clue about how it has been in the 70s.
    They forget that those movies have been made for the cinemas back then and not for some pop-up Fan-Nerds who haven't anything better to do to dissect those gorgeous pieces of movie history on their computer screens and voice their immature opinions as facts X-(

    Yes I know that I sound grumpy - but that‘s the way I feel when I am reading those posts particularly in this section.

    Not that I really wish to agree with our green-trainer wearing friend :p ...but...I’d go as far as to say that Bond probably wouldn’t have survived without Roger carrying the films throughout the ‘70’s...
    YNWA 97
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Or: " Wasn't Cubby Lucky Sir Roger stayed as long as he did "
    Though I appreciate the op isn't bashing Sir Roger, I would just say that imho it just fuels that " Moore -the comedy bond" or the tired creepy old man and too old sentiment that is rife.

    +1
    and it's not the first time that the op tries that!

    As far as I remember, there was not a shadow of a doubt that Roger Moore will do the next Bond after TMWTGG - I am recently reading a lot of rubbish from people that have no clue about how it has been in the 70s.
    They forget that those movies have been made for the cinemas back then and not for some pop-up Fan-Nerds who haven't anything better to do to dissect those gorgeous pieces of movie history on their computer screens and voice their immature opinions as facts X-(

    Yes I know that I sound grumpy - but that‘s the way I feel when I am reading those posts particularly in this section.

    Not that I really wish to agree with our green-trainer wearing friend :p ...but...I’d go as far as to say that Bond probably wouldn’t have survived without Roger carrying the films throughout the ‘70’s...

    Yep he has a valid agreeing with me :D
    Higgins may well use that post of yours on his Christmas cards this year :))
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Revolver66Revolver66 Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 470MI6 Agent
    Live and Let Die was a mega hit and is still one of the most successful films in the series. In fact, I do believe it was the second highest grossing Bond film at that point in the franchise. Golden Gun took a hit at the box office but was certainly not a failure or a flop. (No Bond film has been). I would suggest that any uncertainty around that time stemmed from the Broccoli/Saltzman break up and not from Roger Moore at all. Live and Let Die proved that audiences completely accepted Moore as Bond and Golden Gun can be put down to an aberration ( box office wise), so I sincerely doubt that Roger was in any danger at all of losing the role. In my opinion he had without question proven himself to be a popular and backable Bond at this point -{
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,416Chief of Staff
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Higgins may well use that post of yours on his Christmas cards this year :))

    I fear you may be right :o :D
    YNWA 97
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    ... and you all wish that you‘d receive one of my brilliant Christmas Cards :v
    And Stollen!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    ... and you all wish that you‘d receive one of my brilliant Christmas Cards :v
    And Stollen!

    We do OK for stollen, we have one of those luxury German delicatessen not too far away called aldi.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    You have not tasted the Stollen that I am giving out to decent people ;)

    Aldi is just selling you the Stollen that is especially made for you floks for punishment for leaving the EU
    And even that you won‘t get anymore once that you are out :))
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Can't beat a traditional Christmas plum duff ;)
    plum-pudding.jpg
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    On the three-film process of Moore finally coming to "own" the role and cementing his stamp on the character...

    I wonder if there is a discernable strategy in the attempts to establish Moore with audiences if judging with the directors brought in? Going by past successes with Connery, yes, it was Terence Young who established the instantly popular Bond persona. But it was Guy Hamilton who pushed Bond to higher pop-culture levels.

    Maybe immediately in the post-Connery era, they wanted to skip Bond 101 and annoint Roger Moore as the cool and suave Bond from GF, except they lacked the larger-than-life coolness of the DB5 the other bombastic elements that earlier caused Bond to graduate to superspy status beyond the 1st two “conventional” entries. But because this did not work for Moore, IMO, resulting in the lukewarm LALD and TMWTGG, it was fortunate that Guy Hamilton didn’t stick around for TSWLM that led to having Lewis Gilbert brought back in, who then pushed Moore even further over-the-top with his own version of YOLT.

    In hindsight, with the fun and lightness of Moore, a movie like YOLT was indeed more appropriate for him, versus the relative grittiness of the first 4 Connery movies.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
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