TND under-rated

discovolantediscovolante los angeles ca usaPosts: 66MI6 Agent
Whenever people talk about the PB years, it's almost always the same thing: TWINE was great, GE was good, but flawed, DAD was not good, and nobody ever mentions TND. Why is that? I thought Michelle Yeoh was good, Terri Hatcher was good, there were great stunts, and PB looked really bondian. Sure, Carver wasn't a perfect villian, and the PTS could have been better, but overall a good Bond film, and one of PB's best performances. Anybody agree?
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Comments

  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Not really, I believe that Wai Lin was obnoxiously Bond's equal, the stealth sub model was OBVIOUSLY a model, Carver acts more liked a spoilt child (a problem Graves would have in DAD) rather than a menacing villain and is rather forgettable (another problem Graves would face), I didn't especially enjoy Hatcher's performance in this movie, it was essentially a rehash of YOLT/TSWLM.

    Also another problem it has is that it's sandwiched in between two very memorable and almost classic Bond's GE and TWINE with new and fresher plots than TND's almost all recycled plot, which also adds to it being overlooked.

    Overall, I think TND's a very forgettable entry in the Bond series.
  • Thomas CrownThomas Crown Posts: 119MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    Tomorrow Never Dies, like Die Another Day has scenes, and concepts that are amongst the best stuff the series has put up on screen. Yet the problem with both these films is they typically don't follow through with them, thereby making parts of these films better, and more interesting than the film as a whole.

    Pierce Brosnan is just fine in the film, again insisting on a greater presence of Bond's character, and some chemistry for his character. He gets this in some parts, like Bond alone in the hotel room, or most of his scenes with Paris, but overall the film really doesn’t explore much of Bond's character. He is the man of action with occasional feelings. I suppose the best way to say it is it laid a good foundation for further exploration and character chemistry with Bond and Elektra in The World Is Not Enough, but this relationship lacks the development in the story to make it interesting.

    The finale of this film was re-written while shooting, and it shows. I really don't like the idea of Bond running around like a Terminator blowing everything up in sight. There is no skill to that, no excitement, merely explosions and clichéd dialogue. Again, while the action in this film is impressive, it covers up a plot with little development in character, and is mostly recycled from You Only Live Twice and The Spy Who Loved Me.

    That's not to say the film doesn’t have pluses. The pre-titles, title's sequence and song are some of the best in the whole series: suspenseful, sexy, and fitting of the film. I really enjoyed them. Michelle Yeoh is a fine choice for a Bond girl, but again, we get these melodramatic stares between Brosnan and Yeoh as if we're supposed to understand that because they've gotten shot at together they're falling for each other. I realize this isn't the first time 007 films have made that leap, but that doesn’t make it excusable, especially when Brosnan is insisting on more character chemistry in his films.

    Nevertheless, Brosnan is good, as is David Arnolds score, and the sense of national alarm is one of the best things the plot has going for it. It even beats out Thunderball in that regard. Yet with mostly uninteresting characters, a good cast, and what could have been a good story is wasted on impressive stunts and a bunch of things we've seen before.

    I'd give it a 7/10
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    I'm not a big fan of TND. But nor do I hate it. In fact my feelings about TND could best be summed up by that I don't feel particularly passionate about it. The whole film just seems too average. It had the potential to be great (Brosnan's second film after the brilliant GE) but IMO it completely failed.

    The good:
    1)Brosnan's performance.
    2)The scenes with Moneypenny.
    3)The car chase.
    4)The scene involving Dr Kaufman.
    5)The fight at the party.
    6)The idea that a villain has his pain/pleasure centres reversed.

    The bad:
    1)Wai Lin-An obnoxiously equal of Bond whom I wanted to shoot.
    2)Carver-the first terrible villain of the Brosnan films.
    3)Stamper-Nothing was made of his unique trait.
    4)The plot-Too derivitive. Films like YOLT had done it better.
    5)The title-Enough said.
    6)The music-Who sang the theme song? ;) (Completely forgettable.)
    7)The PPTS-Has been done before, and much better.
    8)The action scenes-I love action, but none of the action scenes in TND were particularly memorable.
    9)Paris-Not as bad as many people say she was but after Tracey, why should I care about the death of a woman whom I've only just met and wasn't overly memorable?
    10)As JFF said, it was sandwiched between two great films (GE and TWINE) and it was nowhere near as fresh and interesting as either of them.

    I will give it 5.5/10
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    Tomorrow Never Dies, like Die Another Day has scenes, and concepts that are amongst the best stuff the series has put up on screen.
    This is off topic but I would be greatly curious as to which scenes and concepts in DAD were among the best in the series. ;)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
    I think TND was a good film for the first half, and then went downhill fast after the HALO jump.

    DAD did have some revolutionary scenes, mainly the capture and torture sequence. I really don't want to remember anything after that. Even Brosnan seems to be playing Pierce Brosnan playing Bond. Unlike his earlier performances when he was growing into the role of James Bond, in DAD he seems to be playing a parody of these early roles.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    I think TND was Brosnan's best Bond film. Nice and straightforward with a minimum of attempts at drama, decent locations (except Hamburg, but never mind), good performances from Brosnan and Yeoh (Wai Lin actually being a grown-up Bond girl for once; unfortunately we got the stupid version of her later in Jinx); an actual visual look (silver, black and red: I actually can't think of many other Bond films with a colour palette and visual style- Goldfinger perhaps); and two of the best action scenes in the whole series in the PTS and car chase; the rest of the action wasn't bad either- certainly beats TWINE's episodic and dull action scenes.

    There are bad points like the tailing off towards the end and Jonathan Pryce for some reason not quite working out, but it's the Brosnan I'd always choose to watch.
  • wordswords Buckinghamshire, EnglandPosts: 249MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Tomorrow Never Dies, like Die Another Day has scenes, and concepts that are amongst the best stuff the series has put up on screen.
    This is off topic but I would be greatly curious as to which scenes and concepts in DAD were among the best in the series. ;)

    I'm a big DAD detractor but I rate some scenes very highly. The scenes in the hotel at the start were great. Meeting M at the secret location for deactivated spies. The swordfight. Its some of these concepts that make the whole terribly disappointing, it could have been so much better.

    On topic, I just found TND overlong and noisy. Again it had some decent ideas, but I just get bored of it long before the end.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    words wrote:
    I'm a big DAD detractor but I rate some scenes very highly. The scenes in the hotel at the start were great. Meeting M at the secret location for deactivated spies. The swordfight. Its some of these concepts that make the whole terribly disappointing, it could have been so much better.
    I quite liked the hotel scene although I could have done without Bond's dirty beard. That said, I loved the "Say goodbye to him from us" line. The fencing scene was of course fantastic and was perhaps the only action scene in the film that I genuinely liked. Meeting M at the secret location for deactivated spies wasn't one of my favourite moments. The weird thing about it was that Bond referred to a key as M's calling card. Since when has a key been M's calling card? ?:)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • SeanConnery007SeanConnery007 The Bond Archive - London, EngPosts: 169MI6 Agent
    Many people have given praise to TND's PTS - I personally think the PTS is very forgettable.
    I'm certainly not a fan of TND for many of the same reasons as others;

    The PTS is too forgettably narrow. Nowhere near as memorable as GE, or as passionate as TWINE.
    The plot was dry, with lack of direction or exciting originality.
    The film plays like they had devised set action pieces, and THEN written a basic plot around them.
    The entire film is too American - Bond uses many American phrases, and the gadgetry and the emphasis on action makes the film feel like any old 90's action film.
    The less said about Sheryl Crow's theme the better.
    The title smacks of clique and is purely unimaginative.
    Teri Hatcher's Paris could be cut from the film and you probably wont be too bothered - Wa Lin is just as forgettable and is badly written for and poorly conceived through out the film.
    Elliot Carver I liked - for about the first hour, then you realise he's just a spoilt old man. He's not menacing or convincing - just annoying.

    Overall by my standards its no classic, a forgettable 2nd film that doesn't have the classic stamp of GE or the epic standard of TWINE but at least its not the complete embarrassment of DAD.
    Nobody Writes Threads Better.
  • wordswords Buckinghamshire, EnglandPosts: 249MI6 Agent
    I agree with most of your points SeanConnery007, but one thing I like about TND is the theme tune. Its one that you seem to either love or hate.

    Paris, I feel was a missed opportunity, there was no chemistry between Hatcher and Brozzer.

    Another negative was Stamper. Was he Necros (TLD) brother?!
  • Thomas CrownThomas Crown Posts: 119MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Tomorrow Never Dies, like Die Another Day has scenes, and concepts that are amongst the best stuff the series has put up on screen.
    This is off topic but I would be greatly curious as to which scenes and concepts in DAD were among the best in the series. ;)

    While I'm nearly certain this will lead us to agreeing to disagree, I was making a comparison to Die Another Day because the films suffer from the same structural problem in my opinion. There are parts of each film that are done very well, have good characterization, colorful set pieces (or well choreographed action) and are very memorable. But the problem with the story in both films is instead of making the more suspenseful, character filled scenes constant throughout the movie, the stories fade in-between that approach and a "business-as-usual" 007 that borderlines on parody in some instances.

    The contrast between the first and second half of Die Another Day really demonstrates this point, perhaps more than any other film. The first hour or so is excellent. The locations look colorful, crisp and vivid. The imprisonment and torture of 007 is well in the spirit of Fleming, and could even be reflective of that unknown period between the novels of You Only Live Twice and The Man With the Golden Gun when Bond is captured and tortured by the USSR. This also is highlighted by the having the beginning of the film take place in North Korea, the final frontier of the Cold War.

    Brosnan's Bond was also given some of the best material to work with in the first half. For the first time, Bond has to reach inside, confront a traitor and reclaim his life. This inspires a whole new level of ruthlessness that Brosnan exudes amazingly in the first half. The Cuba scenes remind me of Fleming's travelogue style, and his hard hitting fight with Zao is proof positive than Brosnan's Bond can throw a punch. Zao was also building up to be the best henchman since Red Grant, more than just a muted moron, but a character with motivations and a back story.

    Yet all of these positives were not followed through on in the second half. Instead of keeping with the travelogue, realistic yet colorful look of the first half, we get special effects, Matrix looking second half. Sorry, but black and ice just don't appeal to me in the way the colors of the Caribbean do. The acting becomes reduced to clichéd performances and dialogue, and most disappointingly, Bond's quest for revenge takes a back seat to a much less interesting Icarus-plot.

    While that’s not to say the last hour is all bad (I'm a big fan of the car chase and Moneypenny scene), the point that the film lacks a consistent tone makes parts of the film better and more developed than the overall adventure; A flaw that speaks to both even-numbered adventures of the Brosnan era.
  • Andy A 007Andy A 007 Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    I completely agree with you, discovolante! TND is a perfect example of the proper use of the cinematic Bond formula.
    I especially think that Carver is one of the most underrated Bond villians. He's very mencacing and has great Bond villain dialogue.
    As for Brosnan's performance, its at its best! For instance, the scene in the hotel room with Bond and Paris is fantastically delivered by Brosnan. Its very Fleming.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    This is off topic but I would be greatly curious as to which scenes and concepts in DAD were among the best in the series. ;)

    Well, Bond getting captured was pretty good. The sword fight I liked. The car chase and Ice palace.

    TND does remind me a little of DAD in the regard. I like some of the smaller moments, but the over all product is sub par.

    And no one's mentioned how good the M, First Lord of the Admirlty (was that Palmer's role?) were.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    As DAD was gradually unveiled before release, it seemed like it would be a big budget, revamped version of TND. Even Brosnan at the first press conference praised it for wall to wall action in the second half - odd, as that was his complaint about TND and TWINE had been a successful move away from all that.

    The film looked American in the trailer, same grey blue colour scheme, explosions, even the pts similar in theme, Bond at an arms bazaar shooting his way out on a hijacked vehicle, only a hovercraft not a jump jet. More Americans in the film, Halle Berry this time not Teri Hatcher.

    Of course, the film turned out to be infinitely worse... :))
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    While I'm nearly certain this will lead us to agreeing to disagree
    You're undoubtfully right. ;)
    The contrast between the first and second half of Die Another Day really demonstrates this point, perhaps more than any other film. The first hour or so is excellent. The locations look colorful, crisp and vivid. The imprisonment and torture of 007 is well in the spirit of Fleming, and could even be reflective of that unknown period between the novels of You Only Live Twice and The Man With the Golden Gun when Bond is captured and tortured by the USSR. This also is highlighted by the having the beginning of the film take place in North Korea, the final frontier of the Cold War.

    Brosnan's Bond was also given some of the best material to work with in the first half. For the first time, Bond has to reach inside, confront a traitor and reclaim his life. This inspires a whole new level of ruthlessness that Brosnan exudes amazingly in the first half. The Cuba scenes remind me of Fleming's travelogue style, and his hard hitting fight with Zao is proof positive than Brosnan's Bond can throw a punch. Zao was also building up to be the best henchman since Red Grant, more than just a muted moron, but a character with motivations and a back story.
    I really disagree with you on this because IMO the first half was almost as bad as the second half. My first problem was that Bond got captured. As someone who hasn't read the novels and is more interested in the cinematic approach, it doesn't warm my heart to see Bond captured and tortured. However, accepting that, what annoys me even more is that he didn't escape. What I would have loved was for Bond to escape and for the film to be about his seeking revenge for his capture. Instead, he got out because of a deal which suggests that if the deal hadn't taken place, he would still be in captivity, or worse. :s

    To make matters even worse, he went to Cuba where we met Jinx! X-( I still have nightmare about the sex scene. :D (Well, not quite. ;))

    There is also the PTS. Obviously it was different (for good or bad) with Bond's being captured but I remember watching DAD recently on TV and almost falling asleep during the PTS. The PTS of course had a unique twist, but it was pretty similar to TND's which was pretty similar to GE, neiher of which IMO were nearly as good as GE's. In fact it seems to me that during the Brosnan films there were two PTS's; GE's which was copied in TND and DAD, and TWINE's.

    Finally there are the theme song, Brosnan's dirty beard when he went into the hotel, the fact that Bond's being captured and tortured was forgotten as soon as he went to Cuba, the interplay between Bond and Jinx and Graves himself. If the end of the fencing scene signals the point in which DAD became an absolute disaster (although IMO it was already bad enough) then in that scene we were introduced to Graves, one of the all-time worst villains IMO.

    So in conclusion let me say that IMO the first half was almost as bad as the second. I do consider the second half to be inferior, but when I think of what the first half has given us (the only three good things about the first half IMO were Brosnan's performance, the sword fight and the "Say goodbye to him from us" line) I would argue that the first half was enough to make DAD one of the worst Bond films of all time.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    Back onto topic, I own the novelization to TND (the only proper novelization that I own incidentally), and Carver is IMO a much more interesting character in the novelization than he is in the film.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Finally there are the theme song, Brosnan's dirty beard when he went into the hotel,

    Why do you object to the beard? It's what makes the gag so good.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    Why do you object to the beard? It's what makes the gag so good.
    I just felt that Bond was a little too disheveled for my liking. It's not a major complaint but it is something that annoys me when I watch that scene.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    But the point of the joke is that Bond is looking too disheveled, surely? That's what makes it funny.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    But the point of the joke is that Bond is looking too disheveled, surely? That's what makes it funny.
    Then I guess I didn't find it funny. ;) My highlight of that scene was the "Say goodbye to him from us" line which would still have been effective if Bond was neater.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    emtiem wrote:
    But the point of the joke is that Bond is looking too disheveled, surely? That's what makes it funny.
    Then I guess I didn't find it funny. ;)

    What; really? He walks into a classy lobby full of extrememly rich and well dressed people sopping wet in pyjamas with an enormous untidy beard, but acting as if he was dressed in a five grand suit with the Bond theme blaring out- did you really not find that funny?
    Dan Same wrote:
    My highlight of that scene was the "Say goodbye to him from us" line which would still have been effective if Bond was neater.

    That was a different scene in which Bond was clean shaven and wearing a Hong Kong tailor's ripoff of a Brioni suit. Can he get much neater?
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    emtiem wrote:
    What; really? He walks into a classy lobby full of extrememly rich and well dressed people sopping wet in pyjamas with an enormous untidy beard, but acting as if he was dressed in a five grand suit with the Bond theme blaring out- did you really not find that funny?
    No, I didn't. There wasn't really anything about DAD which I found funny.
    emtiem wrote:
    That was a different scene in which Bond was clean shaven and wearing a Hong Kong tailor's ripoff of a Brioni suit. Can he get much neater?
    True, but it was part of the same sequence of scenes as the first one. My point is that of the hotel scenes (three in total) that line was IMO the highlight. Bond was neat in that particular scene but not when he walked into the hotel; which annoys me.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Dan, honestly, I think if you're getting annoyed that Bond doesn't look perfect every time rather than enjoying the jokes, then I'm not sure you're totally 'getting' the Bond film idea.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    emtiem wrote:
    Dan, honestly, I think if you're getting annoyed that Bond doesn't look perfect every time rather than enjoying the jokes, then I'm not sure you're totally 'getting' the Bond film idea.
    Trust me, my not getting the 'joke' (if one were to call it that ;)) has nothing to do with Bond's looks. :D I just didn't think it was funny. Many times I laugh during a Bond film, however sometimes I don't. Why do you presume that because you laughed at this scene, it was objectively funny and therefore my failure to laugh means I don't 'get' it? Perhaps I didn't laugh simply because I didn't think it was funny.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    The whole film was 'funny', strange that I never laughed once.

    A true James Bond should never be funny, it should be about real threats to humanity that Bond has to overcome. Connery's Bond was never funny, but wry and VERY serious (at least in the first four). Bring that back and bring Flemings Bond to the screen. If you want funny spy, go and watch Austin Powers DVD's, Bond should never belong in that genre!
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    I like TNDs becuase its jsut generally a fun film to watch and blow a few hours that im bored or not doing anything else, it just makes me much happier, and i love the rocket launcher scene to no end, it basically makes the film for me lol
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    emtiem wrote:
    Dan, honestly, I think if you're getting annoyed that Bond doesn't look perfect every time rather than enjoying the jokes, then I'm not sure you're totally 'getting' the Bond film idea.
    Trust me, my not getting the 'joke' (if one were to call it that ;)) has nothing to do with Bond's looks. :D I just didn't think it was funny. Many times I laugh during a Bond film, however sometimes I don't. Why do you presume that because you laughed at this scene, it was objectively funny and therefore my failure to laugh means I don't 'get' it? Perhaps I didn't laugh simply because I didn't think it was funny.

    Because you've shown no sign that you even understood it as a joke- you seem to be more hung up on the 'problem' that Bond isn't wearing a smart suit in every scene. Perhaps that's not how you feel; but it's how you present yourself: read your above posts back to yourself. You seem to be quite uptight about your tight rules as to what Bond can or can't look or act like. You can't really make twenty films about a character who only does only a small number of strictly prescribed actions and who can't have the freedom to wear a beard.
  • wordswords Buckinghamshire, EnglandPosts: 249MI6 Agent
    I don't think you should get your knickers in a twist about what's funny guys. Maybe Dan just doesn't find that sort of thing amusing and sometimes what people find funny is down to cultural differences.

    I thought it was very funny that Bond is soooo classy that he behaves like he's well groomed and dressed even when he isn't. He behaves to type regardless of circumstances. I would like to have taken that scene and plonked it in a better film really.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited September 2006
    emtiem wrote:
    Because you've shown no sign that you even understood it as a joke- you seem to be more hung up on the 'problem' that Bond isn't wearing a smart suit in every scene.
    Perhaps it was a joke, but then I would say that IMO it was a bad joke because I did not find it funny. My god, why can't I have a different sense of humour to you? Oh, and BTW, as I stated in an earlier post, my not finding it funny had nothing to with what Bond was wearing. I JUST DON"T THINK IT'S FUNNY! Plus, what is so wrong with me being incredibly annoyed that Bond looked terrible in that scene? Bond's looking good is important to me and so that scene annoyed me. Nobody says that other people have to have the same complaint.
    emtiem wrote:
    Perhaps that's not how you feel; but it's how you present yourself: read your above posts back to yourself. You seem to be quite uptight about your tight rules as to what Bond can or can't look or act like. You can't really make twenty films about a character who only does only a small number of strictly prescribed actions and who can't have the freedom to wear a beard.
    I have no problem with my rules, if you want to call them that. You may consider them to be tight but that's not my problem. Yes, I am annoyed that Bond wore a beard like that, but I have never said that other have to share my annoyance. Why can't I have annoyances that others might not agree with?

    Anyway, as I said, when will you understand that my not laughing at the scene is purely because I don't consider it to be funny? You know, you criticise me because I put out the (unintended) perception that if I don't consider it to be funny, then nobody else can, well, when will you accept that not everybody laugh at the same things? I didn't find the scene to be funny which has nothing to do with my rules and which doesn't mean I don't 'get' the joke. (Although even if it were to do with my rules, that would by my problem, not yours.)

    Humour isn't objective. I consider the 'christmas' line in TWINE to be hilarious, while other hate it. My point is that you found the scene to be funny and I didn't. As Words said, perhaps I just don't find that type of thing amusing.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    emtiem wrote:
    Why do you object to the beard? It's what makes the gag so good.
    I just felt that Bond was a little too disheveled for my liking. It's not a major complaint but it is something that annoys me when I watch that scene.

    I didn't find it funny either, but then Tamorahi didn't really seem like a humorous director, he couldn't set up a normal gag imo. Doesn't help that Brosnan looks so paunchy and beardy either...
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
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