26

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Matt S wrote:
Higgins wrote:

Though I really like the movie and it ranks very high with me, it has its flaws:

The Miami scenes look cheap! (Bodyworld, the airport, the airfield chase)
Some dialogues are cringeworthy! (Took my armour off - little finger - Omega (Moore would have gotten crucified for those!))
The car chase should have been longer!

The first two here really bring the film down for me. The car chase was very disappointing since it really wasn't a car chase. Bond gets in the car and then it rolls over many time. It could have had more build up and the rolls at the end would have been even better. The Miami airport chase was just boring and didn't take the movie anywhere like a car chase later in the film could have.

The dialogue certainly is cringe-worthy. At least in Moore's films the dialogue isn't supposed to be taken seriously, so it doesn't detract from the films overall. In CR the dialogue is just so unrealistic for a film that is supposed to be realistic.

Perhaps because of the dialogue, or also the way Craig acts, I don't find the Bond/Vesper relationship at all convincing. The scene where they meet on the train is one of the worst of the series. The dialogue isn't anything real people would say. The way they tell each other about each other is painful. Despite Lazenby and Rigg hating each other on set, I found them to have far more chemistry on screen.

I also don't like that they focused so much on the origins of the character, and I don't find it believable either. The classic Bond character would have been formed in his teens and at university, not in his late 30s. People's mannerisms and tastes are formed at a younger age. Vesper didn't create Bond in the novels like she does in this film. I hated how she taught Bond how to be Bond, like in how to dress.

And taking advantage of the poker boom? It disgraces Fleming's novel by replacing baccarat with Texas Hold-em poker.

I could keep going on the faults of CR.

Though CR is still one of my favorite EON entries (thanks to using Fleming's work and getting IMO a rugged looking actor giving a solid performance), I also find it has a few flaws, though not as many when compared to the whole series.

On my first viewing I enjoyed the witty yet acerbic banter on the train.  However, on repeated viewings it does reveal a staged feeling - as though the writers were trying to show off by trying to come up with clever dialogue for the actors as opposed to how real people
converse (and at the same time force feeding us narrative biographical exposition).  Craig seems more natural at how he delivers it, but Greene seems very stilted and unsure of her accent in moments.  I still like the "skewered" line though.

The whole timeline of their developing relationship - from emotional distrust/dislike to lovers - is just too short to be convincing, though Lazenby and Rigg's relationship curve was also pretty short for me to also be convincing (despite the shorthand music sequence showing them dating) .  However, this is a problem that action films like these have difficulty in wrestling with.  It's a hard decision to make when trying to balance the amount of time given to driving the plot with action/investigation scenes over establishing a believable love interest.  As we see, it's the love relationship that usually loses out and ends up seeming forced.  It could be better served in a longer film, but since this genre is about action and adventure, lengthening the film to make the relationships more beliveable could be self defeating.

Yes, the car chase was too short (is it possible some footage was cut to trim the running time?) and I thought having Vesper in the road a bit illogical - how would Le Chiffre know if Bond was going to be the next car?  What if another car had entered the road ahead of Bond and arrived first?  Also, from the preceding long shot of the chase, it appears that Bond is close enough to them that they would not have had enough time to stop and place her there then hide off the road nearby.

I don't quite understand the statement of the Miami sequence looking "cheap".  What does that mean?  I certainly didn't find the tarmac chase sequence boring. I thought it was creative and well staged.  My chief complaint is that they make Bond a little too indestructible in it - he jumps off the moving tanker and doesn't even get his wind knocked out, then not only does he get right up but catches up and jumps back on the tanker speeding away from him!  Yes, in comparison to the parkour sequence it's not anymore farfetched, but for me it's bit hard to swallow.

As far as focusing on the origin's of Bond's character and becoming a 00 - I didn't get the impression he was not a polished gentlemen or even an inexperienced agent.  Despite M's anger at his decision to kill the bomb maker in the embassy, it seemed to me that Bond made a smart, instinctive act that only an experienced agent would have made - rather than let the man escape and deliver a bomb that could kill many innocents, he chose to try and capture him and when that became not feasible, he killed him - but not without also getting the bomb and the phone that contained the information he used to track down Le Chiffre.
Also, his cold, professional behaviour throughout much of the film reinforced the appearance to me that he had some years of experience behind him.

As far as his personal tastes - such as his dress and drinking - I didn't find anything disagreeable in the script that suggested he wasn't already a refined Bond.  His first drink order in the Bahamas hotel bar wasn't very revealing - Bond in the novels imbibed all types of cocktails - even a Stinger (DAF) - and his next order in the film was for a bottle of Bollinger.  As far as Vesper giving him supposedly a finer dinner jacket - yes, I thought that scenario was unnecessary, but then I put it down to the idea that it wasn't that Bond's own taste in his evening attire was incorrect - it was just that in her opinion it wasn't good enough for the cover role he was playing and since he seemed to be looking forward to pretending to be some high roller, he figured why not wear the costume anyway?  It was only for a one time performance anyway.

I was also very disappointed that they changed the game to poker just because it's so popular.  IMO, I actually find it more difficult to follow than baccarat (the only game that's even simpler to play is roulette).  Not so much disgraceful to Fleming's work for me but more of a dishonor to the level of social sophistication Bond and Le Chiffre were supposed to be operating in.  Poker is played for high stakes, yes, but not between tuxedo wearing players in a high end European gaming salon.

Last edited by CmdrAtticus (3rd Jun 2015 17:02)

27

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Thunderpussy wrote:

It's my second favourite Bond film ( almost neck & neck with ohmss )
So as with AOS, no cons for me either.  ajb007/martini

Yep, very much agree with you TP.
CR is my second favourite just behind OHMSS.
My favourite decade for the Bond films are the 1960's. Any Bond film of a more recent vintage has a big task for me to see it in the same light as those great films from that era. But I remember leaving the cinema after watching CR, smiling like a lottery winner and thinking I had just seen a film that deserves the same recognition as those fantastic early Bond films.
I still feel that way today. It obviously helped that it was taken from a Fleming novel which it stayed faithful to, so had a solid foundation to build from.
At a time when the Bourne films were making the Bond films feel out of date and past their prime Casino Royale came along and reclaimed the throne. Cheers  ajb007/martini

1.ohmss  2.cr  3.frwl  4.ltk  5.gf  6.tswlm  7.sf  8.op  9.tld  10.dn  11.lald  12.tb  13.fyeo  14.ge  15.mr  16.yolt  17.tnd  18.avtak  19.sp  20.twine  21.qos  22.tmwtgg  23.daf  24.dad

28

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

I felt the same way leaving the Cinema TWM, Bond was Dangerous again  ajb007/cheers

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

29

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

I felt pretty good about CR both times I went to see it in the cinema, but any times I've watched it since it hasn't held up for me.

30

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

ajb007/lol  We all have and change opinions, I remember as a Kid watching MR and thinking it was the
Greatest Bond film ever, I have since changed my mind.  ajb007/wink  It doesn't mean I was right or wrong
only an opinion.  ajb007/biggrin and none of us has the right one........... well maybe One ?  ajb007/tongue

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

31

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  I am waiting for the Pros and Cons for QoS and Sir Miles filling the emptiness in the Pros field for that crap named a movie  ajb007/biggrin

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

32

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Higgins wrote:

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  I am waiting for the Pros and Cons for QoS and Sir Miles filling the emptiness in the Pros field for that crap named a movie  ajb007/biggrin

But QoS doesn't have any Cons  ajb007/confused

ajb007/tongue

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

33

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

ajb007/shifty

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

34

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Thunderpussy wrote:

I felt the same way leaving the Cinema TWM, Bond was Dangerous again  ajb007/cheers

Indeed  ajb007/cheers

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

35

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

I went with different friends on several occasions to see CR when it came out.  They liked the films but only as action cinema and not because they read the novels and were familiar with the character.  They were very surprised at how different it was from the old Bonds but they all enjoyed it immensely - agreeing that it was a top notch action/adventure film and one of the best of the series.  They also all agreed that Craig gave a solid performance and made a great new charismatic Bond and were looking forward to his future entries.

36

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

And it changed the Minds of a lot of those who at first, were not convinced that Craig was a good Choice  ajb007/martini

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

37

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

I thought they did a fantastic job with CR, keeping the original Fleming
story but expanding and modernising it.  ajb007/martini , I liked the poker competition
idea as it's very current and I know some would have liked a longer car
chase but, they kept close to the book. Which was almost the same except
It was spiked chains, that caused Bond to crash. I think having Vesper placed
On the road was an improvement, on the basic idea.
  So I was very happy with CR.  ajb007/biggrin

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

38

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

It's hard to think that it's already a Decade old  ajb007/amazed

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

39

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

It's hard to think that it's already a Decade old  ajb007/amazed

Well, it's hard to think that because there's still over a year until it will be a decade old.

40

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Pro's:  All of it
Cons:  Not enough of Eva Green's breast.

41

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Matt S wrote:
AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

It's hard to think that it's already a Decade old  ajb007/amazed

Well, it's hard to think that because there's still over a year until it will be a decade old.

I was talking about the general Time Frame.

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

42

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Paperbill wrote:

Cons:  Not enough of Eva Green's breast.

Just the one ?  ajb007/biggrin

I prefer the pair  ajb007/heart

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

43

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Buy one, get one free  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/wink

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

44

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

Buy one, get one free  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/wink

^ Tesco Chicken Fillets.  ajb007/biggrin

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

45

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

46

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:
Matt S wrote:
AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

It's hard to think that it's already a Decade old  ajb007/amazed

Well, it's hard to think that because there's still over a year until it will be a decade old.

I was talking about the general Time Frame.

I was just suggesting a reason why it could be hard to think it's a decade old. You might not find it so hard in another year.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Well nine years since CR is also hard for me to
believe, but even harder for me is it will be three years since I saw SF and the London Olympics that summer.  Heavens!  Where does time go!!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

It has gone quick  ajb007/lol

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

49

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Time flies when you're having fun, as they say.  ajb007/biggrin

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

50

Re: Pros and Cons: Casino Royale (2006)

Nine years eh ! Must mean I'm two years older.  ajb007/wink

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”