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Topic: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Something nasty is on its way from the EU which will hit collectors Europe wide!  ajb007/frown

As Bond collectors a number of us have a Walther PPK in our collection, some replica, some deactivated & outside of the UK some live weapons. From April 2016 new regulations come into force Europe wide regarding ownership of such items which at the moment are a bit on the vague side but all member states will by instructed to comply!

If you have a deactivated PPK which you can dry fire (for those not interested that means you can put a magazine in, rack or pull back the slide so the hammer can go click & move forward when the trigger is pulled) from April you can still own it but if you decide to sell it or indeed give it away? you have to get it deactivated again under a new specification where the magazine will be pinned or welded into the gun, the hammer & trigger will not move and the slide will be pinned or welded to the frame. The gun will then be re-submitted to a deactivation proof house as is currently the case for a deactivated live weapon. In short it will be welded up solid & I wouldn't mind betting that this work may cost as much as £120 or more? Of course if you purchase from a dealer once the new EU regulations are in place? he too will have to go through this process for the weapons he has previously had deactivated & that cost he will have to pass on to you the customer.

If as I know a number of collectors have, you own one of the original Kalashnikov AK47s used on Goldeneye? well things really start to get mad although I could put that stronger. Any deactivated weapon which was once a machine gun reverts back to its pre-deactivated CLASS A machine gun status & therefore private ownership is banned. The UK currently has the most severe deactivation process for such categories of once fully automatic live fire weapons which is everything you can't see is pretty much melted, cut up & effectively is a large blob of weld, nothing moves so we have weapons shape paperweights. Other EU countries have perhaps a more relaxed specification for such weapons which is where this current situation stems from.

So now we get onto Mr Bond who needs to be armed for his missions, no problem? you'd think so, you'd be wrong! As things stand the EU will allow banned category weapons such as "machine guns" to be kept by museums however even these will need to be deactivated and therefore be welded up solid. FILM & TELEVISION ARMOURIES who support the UK/Europe wide film industry may not be exempt from the new regulations? It really is that vague at the moment and potentially far reaching and clearly not very well thought over.

In the UK we have suffered two major massacres which involved legally held & therefore licensed weapons. The first on 19th August 1987, Hungerford,  brought about the banning of semi-automatic rifles with a calibre larger than .22.
The second on 13th March 1996, Dunblane, where a complete head case decided to massacre 16 school children and 1 school teacher with multiple hand guns brought about after public outcry the banning of private ownership of all calibres of hand guns and was also where Donkey surrendered his firearm certificate and pretty much walked away from the industry.

Now remember these bans were live firearms, not deactivated firearms!

The current situation's justification is the EU being seen to be doing something after the deaths in Paris where it is believed a reactivated weapon (not UK specification) had been utilised which could just about kill a specialist section of the much respected British film industry if the British Government do nothing except bend over and say "thank you sir please may I have another"  ajb007/frown

For my part as a collector I have contacted the British Home Office with alternate solutions of control instead of banning including voluntary registration of deactivated weapons which would allow authorities to inspect them & if an individual has been daft enough to modify said weapon after it left the proof house then said weapon would be seized along with any others held followed by charges under the Firearms Act which has got to be better than banning the things and probably offering bugger all in the way of compensation?

One question I have posed I will share with you here. Some on AJB007 believe I have an operational knowledge on this subject, others probably think I'm full of it! You decide..

How will the EU decide what is and what is not a machine gun? will they publish a list of CLASS A prohibited weapons or will you rely on the classification type (eg: pistol, rifle, self loading pistol, self loading rifle, machine gun, light machine gun, heavy machine gun etc) stated on the hundreds of thousands/millions? of Deactivation Proof House Certificates issued over the decades?

As a "James Bond" genuine benchmark I give you this example. In Tomorrow Never Dies both Pierce Brosnan and Doug James use what appears to be a Costa Mesa manufactured therefore US made Armalite AR18 in the explosive pre-titles sequence, which is a selective fire machine gun however the Bond Armourer Karl Schmidt who is a bloody genius actually manufactured Bond's weapon out of a UK manufactured Sterling AR180 Sporter Carbine made for the civilian market which had a two position setting selector lever...SAFE & SEMI, therefore even though being able to burst fire on blanks only it was then & indeed is NOT now a machine gun. Its armoury documentation states it is a SELF LOADING RIFLE. Today like a large number of Bond's historic weapons it is a welded up solid paperweight.

So fellow collectors, you have been warned, this is coming. Granted there are perhaps hundreds of thousands of legally owned deactivated weapons in private collections be they a pistol worth £200 or a screen used prop worth £25,000?, once banning starts, where will it end? Personally I thought the UK imitation firearm laws (VCR) were nuts as they were put in place to ban a specific type of air weapon which had the potential to be and indeed was modified to cycle live rounds however the wording of the act pretty much banned everything "imitation" which included solid rubber movie props unless you were a museum or re-enactor?....this takes things to a whole new level regrettably.

My Grandfather died for this country & a free Europe....not very bloody free is it? (how quickly they FORGET?)

Donk

One possible side effect of the new regulations is it may just drive the manufacturer of Bond's German/French chosen side arm the Walther PPK out of business as Walther/Umarex manufacture .22 calibre semi-automatic live fire licensed copies of the Colt M4, Uzi carbine, variants of the H&K MP5 & Bond's H&K 416 rifle from Skyfall to name but a few. It is proposed that .22 calibre copies of military machine guns are also banned. They really haven't thought this through very well have they?

Last edited by ppw3o6r (9th Feb 2016 13:29)

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Wow not good news, I'm looking for a deactivated PPK and P99.

You also have New Laws in Scotland for airweapons coming to so even the Walther LP53 air pistol, as a collector will need to be licensed.

Another thing to make it difficult for us.

Ross

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Yet another reason for leaving the EU.  ajb007/biggrin

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Indeed if only the UK Government had the balls to do it!  ajb007/cheers

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Given that several of the world's top firearm manufacturers are located in EU countries, it's clear that the gun lobby holds less sway in the EU than it does in my native land of uninhibited access to weaponary. If anyone would like to send their firearm props for my safe keeping in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, just PM me!  ajb007/wink

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

There is more info over here and you can sign the online petition
http://dwa977.wix.com/dwa1#!eu-legislation/b7t85

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Being in Texas, I volunteer to accept any/all Bond related firearms off of the hands of European fans.

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

ppw3o6r wrote:

Something nasty is on its way from the EU which will hit collectors Europe wide!  ajb007/frown

As Bond collectors a number of us have a Walther PPK in our collection, some replica, some deactivated & outside of the UK some live weapons. From April 2016 new regulations come into force Europe wide regarding ownership of such items which at the moment are a bit on the vague side but all member states will by instructed to comply!

If you have a deactivated PPK which you can dry fire (for those not interested that means you can put a magazine in, rack or pull back the slide so the hammer can go click & move forward when the trigger is pulled) from April you can still own it but if you decide to sell it or indeed give it away? you have to get it deactivated again under a new specification where the magazine will be pinned or welded into the gun, the hammer & trigger will not move and the slide will be pinned or welded to the frame. The gun will then be re-submitted to a deactivation proof house as is currently the case for a deactivated live weapon. In short it will be welded up solid & I wouldn't mind betting that this work may cost as much as £120 or more? Of course if you purchase from a dealer once the new EU regulations are in place? he too will have to go through this process for the weapons he has previously had deactivated & that cost he will have to pass on to you the customer.

Thanks John for the heads up...petition signed  ajb007/smile 

If as I know a number of collectors have, you own one of the original Kalashnikov AK47s used on Goldeneye? well things really start to get mad although I could put that stronger. Any deactivated weapon which was once a machine gun reverts back to its pre-deactivated CLASS A machine gun status & therefore private ownership is banned. The UK currently has the most severe deactivation process for such categories of once fully automatic live fire weapons which is everything you can't see is pretty much melted, cut up & effectively is a large blob of weld, nothing moves so we have weapons shape paperweights. Other EU countries have perhaps a more relaxed specification for such weapons which is where this current situation stems from.

So now we get onto Mr Bond who needs to be armed for his missions, no problem? you'd think so, you'd be wrong! As things stand the EU will allow banned category weapons such as "machine guns" to be kept by museums however even these will need to be deactivated and therefore be welded up solid. FILM & TELEVISION ARMOURIES who support the UK/Europe wide film industry may not be exempt from the new regulations? It really is that vague at the moment and potentially far reaching and clearly not very well thought over.

In the UK we have suffered two major massacres which involved legally held & therefore licensed weapons. The first on 19th August 1987, Hungerford,  brought about the banning of semi-automatic rifles with a calibre larger than .22.
The second on 13th March 1996, Dunblane, where a complete head case decided to massacre 16 school children and 1 school teacher with multiple hand guns brought about after public outcry the banning of private ownership of all calibres of hand guns and was also where Donkey surrendered his firearm certificate and pretty much walked away from the industry.

Now remember these bans were live firearms, not deactivated firearms!

The current situation's justification is the EU being seen to be doing something after the deaths in Paris where it is believed a reactivated weapon (not UK specification) had been utilised which could just about kill a specialist section of the much respected British film industry if the British Government do nothing except bend over and say "thank you sir please may I have another"  ajb007/frown

For my part as a collector I have contacted the British Home Office with alternate solutions of control instead of banning including voluntary registration of deactivated weapons which would allow authorities to inspect them & if an individual has been daft enough to modify said weapon after it left the proof house then said weapon would be seized along with any others held followed by charges under the Firearms Act which has got to be better than banning the things and probably offering bugger all in the way of compensation?

One question I have posed I will share with you here. Some on AJB007 believe I have an operational knowledge on this subject, others probably think I'm full of it! You decide..

How will the EU decide what is and what is not a machine gun? will they publish a list of CLASS A prohibited weapons or will you rely on the classification type (eg: pistol, rifle, self loading pistol, self loading rifle, machine gun, light machine gun, heavy machine gun etc) stated on the hundreds of thousands/millions? of Deactivation Proof House Certificates issued over the decades?

As a "James Bond" genuine benchmark I give you this example. In Tomorrow Never Dies both Pierce Brosnan and Doug James use what appears to be a Costa Mesa manufactured therefore US made Armalite AR18 in the explosive pre-titles sequence, which is a selective fire machine gun however the Bond Armourer Karl Schmidt who is a bloody genius actually manufactured Bond's weapon out of a UK manufactured Sterling AR180 Sporter Carbine made for the civilian market which had a two position setting selector lever...SAFE & SEMI, therefore even though being able to burst fire on blanks only it was then & indeed is NOT now a machine gun. Its armoury documentation states it is a SELF LOADING RIFLE. Today like a large number of Bond's historic weapons it is a welded up solid paperweight.

So fellow collectors, you have been warned, this is coming. Granted there are perhaps hundreds of thousands of legally owned deactivated weapons in private collections be they a pistol worth £200 or a screen used prop worth £25,000?, once banning starts, where will it end? Personally I thought the UK imitation firearm laws (VCR) were nuts as they were put in place to ban a specific type of air weapon which had the potential to be and indeed was modified to cycle live rounds however the wording of the act pretty much banned everything "imitation" which included solid rubber movie props unless you were a museum or re-enactor?....this takes things to a whole new level regrettably.

My Grandfather died for this country & a free Europe....not very bloody free is it? (how quickly they FORGET?)

Donk

One possible side effect of the new regulations is it may just drive the manufacturer of Bond's German/French chosen side arm the Walther PPK out of business as Walther/Umarex manufacture .22 calibre semi-automatic live fire licensed copies of the Colt M4, Uzi carbine, variants of the H&K MP5 & Bond's H&K 416 rifle from Skyfall to name but a few. It is proposed that .22 calibre copies of military machine guns are also banned. They really haven't thought this through very well have they?

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

DWA...the Deactivated Weapons Association, have put together a document similar to the one which Donkey sent to the UK Home Office which has still not received a reply yet....Bugger! ajb007/frown

Even if you do not wish to sign the petition? the DWA document makes interesting reading  ajb007/martini

http://media.wix.com/ugd/957eb3_145cd65 … ab596e.pdf

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Latest from Scotland..

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott … BqjTyu1.97

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

ke02eww wrote:

Latest from Scotland..

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott … BqjTyu1.97

And the problem is ? Air weapons in Northern Ireland have been subject to the same requirements as other firearms since the 60s , permission to use on suitable land,club membership etc . In 26 yrs as a police officer I only ever had to deal with one act of vandalism involving an air weapon, and that was unregistered and bought in Blackpool brought in in the boot of a car. Can you say that for police officers in the rest of the UK ?

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

I've signed this petition. These knee jerk reactions effect the honest person and don't effect the criminal element. Maybe we should legislate against cars, in these Isles more people are injured through improper use of a car than improper use of an airgun.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

sniperUK wrote:
ke02eww wrote:

Latest from Scotland..

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott … BqjTyu1.97

And the problem is ? Air weapons in Northern Ireland have been subject to the same requirements as other firearms since the 60s , permission to use on suitable land,club membership etc . In 26 yrs as a police officer I only ever had to deal with one act of vandalism involving an air weapon, and that was unregistered and bought in Blackpool brought in in the boot of a car. Can you say that for police officers in the rest of the UK ?

Thx Sniperuk, You make good points, and thank you for your service in difficult times for a beautiful, but deeply troubled community.

Sadly this is a wave of outrage, politically motivated, which will solve little but buy politicians drowning in challenges a little more time.

This thread is more focussed upon the attack on deactivated or conforming blank-fire film collectables, not the efficacies of safeguarding the public from near-lethal weapons like air guns, to which each of us would have our own solutions, and your points resonate with me strongly.

I merely posted it as further example of how the new laws may be interpreted, should they be implemented.

As to licensing other lethal instruments, cars are indeed licensed, their use and ownership fairly heavily scrutinized.

But in this spirit, One can see household and DIY implements like kitchen knives and drills, saws and the like being thoroughly licensed.

Similarly, the common crisp packet will need to be made "pop-proof" to prevent near lethal use at close quarters on unsuspecting citizens.

I doubt the offence given by the common "trump" will need to be acted against, although it's time to implement an order requiring all individuals to shower at least once a day, especially in London.

The law is indeed an ass, but one upon which, society happily sits comfortable in the security from others.
The alternative is unthinkable.
However,  "Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." Ronald Reagan.

Cheers paul

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Why worry, we'll be out of the E.U. soon anyway. ajb007/biggrin

...one hundred caratsh rough!

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Update:
This has just been posted on DWSUK's website so it looks like April 8th is the deadline. What it does not say which was confirmed by a respected film & television armourer just 2 days ago who has just returned from Brussels is UK Proof Houses have pretty much stopped proofing any weapons which have been submitted for deactivation unless they meet the new EU specification. What concerns me is for pistols the magazines have to be welded in place which doesn't sound too severe unless you have a polymer pistol with a steel magazine then it has to be pinned in place because of course polymer cannot be welded unless you want a blob of plastic where the frame once was? As for revolvers, well the chambers won't be revolving anymore?....
Time to leave the EU guys before they enforce straight bananas! ajb007/insane

http://dwsuk.org/epages/057184c7-2fa2-4 … egislation

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

It's ridiculous really, I have a ppk which was presented to me and the thought of it being even more vandalised than the current deactivation is upsetting to tell the truth. And all this has no effect on the criminals who are shooting each other with antique guns (with homemade ammo) which are not subject to same regulations. Or simply smuggling the guns in.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Chriscoop wrote:

It's ridiculous really, I have a ppk which was presented to me and the thought of it being even more vandalised than the current deactivation is upsetting to tell the truth. And all this has no effect on the criminals who are shooting each other with antique guns (with homemade ammo) which are not subject to same regulations. Or simply smuggling the guns in.

Your PPK will be perfectly safe however the vandalisation comes in to play if you wish to sell it? where the magazine would be welded in place and the slide would be fixed so it cannot be separated from the frame or "field stripped".  ajb007/frown

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Yes I know, but as someone who has used firearms I found the current method of deactivation quite ruinous. I would never sell my ppk as it represents a part of my life and work and was a keepsake. But I can't see any welding being done carefully. Interestingly a judge recently ruled in favour of a collector who had his guns confiscated by the police and declared destroying the guns would be an act of vandalism. Just shows how out of kilter the authorities are.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Well Donkey said he's update you when he had something & something he has!

Today I received a reply from The UK Home Office regarding my proposals on the forthcoming EU regulations. What they sent was a stock email which pretty much contained links to those regulations which make interesting reading if you have a University Degree in woodwork!  ajb007/insane

As originally believed you can keep what you have but if you want to sell it on after April 8th? basically if it can be welded or pinned it will be but if your weapon is polymer?....you're buggered! If you have a weapon with a practical or real deactivated suppressor?...you're buggered!, unless of course you like ruddy great holes drilled in the can every 5cm?...idea only fit 5cm suppressors  ajb007/biggrin

It is still not clear about machine guns but reading between the lines if they don't ban ownership? then welded up solid as is currently the case with the addition of the action (top assembly) pinned or welded to the frame (lower assembly) with the magazines pinned or welded permanently in place if I'm reading the proposed/enforced EU regulations correctly?  ajb007/crap

http://s27.postimg.org/mih8awqf3/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_1.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/c9or532db/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_2.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/ymwhrw3b3/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_3.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/9i5heh3un/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_4.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/rm8hz41j3/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_5.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/u4ysdjcn3/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_6.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/9yvaengzj/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_7.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/thzvo0fr3/Commission_Regulation_on_deactivation_A_Page_8.jpg

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

There is only one way out of this.

Send me your collctuon and I'll keep in in my Swiss Hideout  ajb007/biggrin

162435

President of the 'Misty Eyes Fan Club'.
------Sir Miles, keep your filthy fingers off my signature,  !! -------

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Higgins wrote:

There is only one way out of this.

Send me your collctuon and I'll keep in in my Swiss Hideout  ajb007/biggrin

Is that a euphemism ?  ajb007/biggrin

Anyway, I'm more interested in this 'buggering' Donk talks about with his 'weapon with a practical suppressor'  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/lol

This is a stupid-arse law though  ajb007/rolleyes

YNWA: Justice For The 96

Sometimes no news is just bad news taking it's fvcking time

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Typical knee-jerk closing the door after the 'os has buggered off tactics.

Not got a degree in woodwork, but I do have one in something similar.....

What's the law on propane power king edward cannons or firework bazookas?

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Not ALL MEPs are idiots....hopefully  ajb007/martini  Today April 8th, the new regulations come into force. DWSUK have stopped retailing deactivated firearms as their current inventory needs to be deactivated to the new specification...whatever that is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkDeZZ6 … e=youtu.be

http://s8.postimg.org/789bov6z5/spring_2016001.jpg

Last edited by ppw3o6r (8th Apr 2016 14:10)

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

Well the news isn't good on the deac' front  ajb007/crap

On 6th June the Home Office chose to accept the mess which is the new EU deactivated gun regulations instead of waiting a couple of weeks to see if we, the British populace wanted to remain in the EU?  ajb007/insane

What does this mean?...I'm buggered if I or anyone else knows as the new regulations are written in legal speak but here goes nothing.

In the case of semi auto rifles/machine guns as previously they will be welded up solid with their internals turned into a melted lump however where previously you could remove the magazine or move the trigger and/or cocking lever these will now be pinned, welded or bonded in place depending on the type of material the frame is made of.

Pistols are a bit vague but it would appear that the slides need to be pinned, welded or bonded in place so they will not rack. I believe but I could be wrong that the trigger & hammer may still be able to action? The magazines must now be permanently attached inside the magazine wells by pinning, welding or bonding depending if the frame is aluminium, steel or polymer? This process could seriously bugger up aluminium or nickel finishes.

If you wish to submit your current deactivated weapon for sale to a third party? the weapon must be deactivated further to the new "fooked up" standard and resubmitted to the Birmingham or London Proof Houses.

One thing (one thing?) the drongo who drew up the new regulations failed to take into account is this. Proof houses need to be able to disassemble deactivated weapons to ascertain if the component parts have indeed been deactivated? They then engrave proof marks onto the barrel, slide and frame. Bit difficult doing this with a weapon which will not field strip!....D'ohhhhh!  ajb007/insane

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Re: No 007 you can't have an H&K UMP9 on this mission!...EU April 2016

^ Classic EU & Government nonsense  ajb007/insane

YNWA: Justice For The 96

Sometimes no news is just bad news taking it's fvcking time