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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

When the score should be very much in the background,  almost unnoticeable. Perhaps give a naturalistic or perhaps near documentary feel.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

For a more naturalistic feel, no music is better. Lots of documentaries have wonderful, memorable music. Often melodic music is used in documentaries to help tell the story that the documentary is trying to tell.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
Gassy Man wrote:

Ever since the late 1980s, it's been vogue for many TV and film producers to want "sonic wallpaper" as scores, which is to say rather bland, generic, and minimalist tonal accompaniment.  The later Star Trek TV series, for instance, were infamous for this.  This is largely a reaction by my generation to the more bombastic and, in my opinion, creatively interesting scores of TV and film in the previous decades.  There's a sense among Gen-Xers in particular that with rare exception -- Star Wars, for instance -- less is more, and anything big and loud is campy.  The more artsy-fartsy the film maker -- and Sam Mendes has pretensions of being an artist -- the more likely they are to use something barely approximating music, a la Thomas Newman, who has little of the talent or vision of his father, who created such iconic scores as How the West Was Won:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwPI80EALPU

How The West Was Won has fantastic music. Though that particular sound is outdated, the concepts behind the music could still work (memorable themes and a level of energy that fits the film). I didn't know that people find bombastic scores campy. But I suppose that also applies to any music that resembles proper music? Music that doesn't match the film, like Newman's in the Bond films, just seems completely wrong to me. An exciting scene without exciting music just seems boring. On the other hand, loud, bombastic music would not fit a small film that feels more like a play, but I just don't understand why people find the concepts of good musical composition to be campy.

Some, but not all, find bombastic scores campy.  So do some people with regard to music that punctuates a moment they don't think is necessary, which is lampooned in Austin Powers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs

This is in part due to changing tastes and in part to a postmodern aesthetic that over-intellectualizes everything.  Because, the theory goes, we're already familiar from earlier films with the habit of punctuating a scene dramatically with music, it's no longer necessary, or at least it's no longer necessary in an obvious way.  Star Wars, of course, defied this expectation, but then Star Wars essentially resurrected every space opera cliche that could be done, so in postmodern way, it's already invested in creating exactly that self-referential postmodern effect.

The issue with camp is that it's supposed to be intentional.  They knew what they were doing in the Batman TV series, for instance.  However, in more recent years, it's come to also be recognized as unintentional, which is to say because aesthetic values have changed, we can look at something that was done seriously at the time as now campy because our tastes have changed.  To me, that's stupid, as tastes will change with generations, but quite a few so-called great thinkers have lobbied for such a definition.

In this, the more bombastic and punctuating scores of old may be viewed by a contemporary audience as campy, or at least inappropriate.  The trend since the late 1980s has be to make scores minimalist so that they are taken more "seriously."  This, too, shall pass some day.  The big exception are things that either aren't meant to be taken seriously -- animation like The Incredibles, whose soundtrack pays homage to Bond, for instance -- or are nostalgic or outright fantasy -- Raiders of the Lost Ark or any of the surfeit of superhero movies we've been assaulted with for 20 years.

But I don't go to the movies to see minimalism.  That's a TV and stage trope.  I go to movies to see a cast of thousands, to witness visuals that wow me, and to hear music that I can hum on the way out of the theater.  That's why I don't care for constant close ups of actors, unconvincing CGI, or sonic wallpaper.  I don't need to be in a theater for that.  I can watch such at home on DVD because essentially I'm just getting an overpriced TV show to begin with.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Thomas Newman actually uses his music to punctuate things that happen in action scenes, and he does it in the most obvious and unmusical ways that make it seem he has no idea what he's doing. And it does seem campy. When David Arnold did the same thing in his Bond scores (which he often did), it was much better because he did it within musical context.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

David Arnold coming back would make me almost as happy as Craig coming back.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Please bring David Arnold back!

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

For those of you who hated Newman's Bond scores (I loved Skyfall's score but hated Specre's) take comfort in the fact that he's done with the franchise now.

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

walther p99 wrote:

For those of you who hated Newman's Bond scores (I loved Skyfall's score but hated Specre's) take comfort in the fact that he's done with the franchise now.

Mendes could come back and bring him with him.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

There's just very little excitement to Newmans scores,  it's very pedestrian and for me drains a bit of excitement out of what I'm watching. 
Arnolds scores are exciting just to listen to.  He actually has a passion for doing Bond which shows through in his arrangements.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
walther p99 wrote:

For those of you who hated Newman's Bond scores (I loved Skyfall's score but hated Specre's) take comfort in the fact that he's done with the franchise now.

Mendes could come back and bring him with him.

Even if Craig returns, I don't think we'll get Mendes. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter … ebook-post

Some news?

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Same story that's being recycled by every garbage news outlet you can think of.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

David Arnold would be my first choice. Wish he could redo Skyfall and Spectre's scores.

Michael Giacchino would be my second choice.

"No for me."
"You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
"I never miss..."
"Time to face gravity!"

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold would be my first choice. Wish he could redo Skyfall and Spectre's scores.

Michael Giacchino would be my second choice.


What really drives me mad is that re-scoring actually would be possible. Anyone could do it really, but Newman. He was and is just wrong for Bond.

I have seen and heard some of your re-scores and they work so well!

Dalton Rulez™

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

BondJasonBond006 wrote:
BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold would be my first choice. Wish he could redo Skyfall and Spectre's scores.

Michael Giacchino would be my second choice.


What really drives me mad is that re-scoring actually would be possible. Anyone could do it really, but Newman. He was and is just wrong for Bond.

I have seen and heard some of your re-scores and they work so well!

Thank you and no kidding. With the time and right music I may attempt to rescore both movies fully one of these days. ajb007/smile

"No for me."
"You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
"I never miss..."
"Time to face gravity!"

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

On a slightly different tack, I'm listening to a lot of Steven Wilson's work, (formerly of Porcupine Tree). His solo work is exceptional, and he is also in demand as a producer, remixing many classic albums, with a meticulous eye to detail. I'm uncertain as to whether he has composed any film score as yet, although his scope is quite "cinematic"...however, if Bond is looking for a retro/contemporary feel, please take a listen to a track from his album 4 1/2 " Sunday Rain Sets In"... particularly at 1:20 & 2:22...and at 3:11 to the fade...remind you of anyone?..(apologies, as I'm not certain how to include a link).

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold would be my first choice. Wish he could redo Skyfall and Spectre's scores.

Michael Giacchino would be my second choice.

Would absolutely love to hear a Giacchino Bond score! he's a perfect candidate for the job.

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Am I missing something here?

With Christopher Nolan's company Syncopy initially being listed by IMDb as having Bond 25 as a current project (that listing has since been removed - perhaps a mistake or perhaps part of the Broccoli/Wilson secretive way of doing business), rumours have been rife that Nolan may be in line for directing the next Bond film (GREAT news in my opinion)...
Now if that turns out to be the case, why are we not discussing Oscar winner and all-round fantastic bloke Hanz Zimmer for the music score?

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/05/christ … 201812534/

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Oscar Wilde

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Alec 006 wrote:

Am I missing something here?

With Christopher Nolan's company Syncopy initially being listed by IMDb as having Bond 25 as a current project (that listing has since been removed - perhaps a mistake or perhaps part of the Broccoli/Wilson secretive way of doing business), rumours have been rife that Nolan may be in line for directing the next Bond film (GREAT news in my opinion)...
Now if that turns out to be the case, why are we not discussing Oscar winner and all-round fantastic bloke Hanz Zimmer for the music score?

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/05/christ … 201812534/

Zimmer's name has already been thrown around in this thread. I'm not the only one here who things Hans Zimmer would be a terrible fit for Bond, not least because Bond doesn't need generic-sounding action music. Thomas Newman clearly looked to Zimmer for his action music in his two Bond films, and we don't need any more of that!

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
Alec 006 wrote:

Am I missing something here?

With Christopher Nolan's company Syncopy initially being listed by IMDb as having Bond 25 as a current project (that listing has since been removed - perhaps a mistake or perhaps part of the Broccoli/Wilson secretive way of doing business), rumours have been rife that Nolan may be in line for directing the next Bond film (GREAT news in my opinion)...
Now if that turns out to be the case, why are we not discussing Oscar winner and all-round fantastic bloke Hanz Zimmer for the music score?

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/05/christ … 201812534/

Zimmer's name has already been thrown around in this thread. I'm not the only one here who things Hans Zimmer would be a terrible fit for Bond, not least because Bond doesn't need generic-sounding action music. Thomas Newman clearly looked to Zimmer for his action music in his two Bond films, and we don't need any more of that!

As much as I agree that most of Newman's Bond score's are lackluster, especially Spectre, which was one of the dullest most generic score's ive ever heard and rightfully deserves all the flak it gets. His Skyfall score though which didn't feature Adele's song was the highest selling Bond score in 27 years and nominated for an Oscar. So even as generic and Zimmer-inspired as it was it clearly made an impact with the general public. I cant and wont defend Spectre's score though, that score was absolute sh*t.

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

walther p99 wrote:
Matt S wrote:
Alec 006 wrote:

Am I missing something here?

With Christopher Nolan's company Syncopy initially being listed by IMDb as having Bond 25 as a current project (that listing has since been removed - perhaps a mistake or perhaps part of the Broccoli/Wilson secretive way of doing business), rumours have been rife that Nolan may be in line for directing the next Bond film (GREAT news in my opinion)...
Now if that turns out to be the case, why are we not discussing Oscar winner and all-round fantastic bloke Hanz Zimmer for the music score?

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/05/christ … 201812534/

Zimmer's name has already been thrown around in this thread. I'm not the only one here who things Hans Zimmer would be a terrible fit for Bond, not least because Bond doesn't need generic-sounding action music. Thomas Newman clearly looked to Zimmer for his action music in his two Bond films, and we don't need any more of that!

As much as I agree that most of Newman's Bond score's are lackluster, especially Spectre, which was one of the dullest most generic score's ive ever heard and rightfully deserves all the flak it gets. His Skyfall score though which didn't feature Adele's song was the highest selling Bond score in 27 years and nominated for an Oscar. So even as generic and Zimmer-inspired as it was it clearly made an impact with the general public. I cant and wont defend Spectre's score though, that score was absolute sh*t.

Sales don't indicate quality, particularly when it comes to music. Justin Bieber is currently at the top of the charts. Film score quality is in such a sad state today that there aren't many good choices when it comes to Oscar nominations. The other four nominees that year were infinitely better than Skyfall's score.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

I think the sales of Skyfall's score were a result of the overall success of the film and the related hype surrounding the 50th anniversary. It wasn't anything special. That said, I agree that Skyfall's score was much better than Spectre's.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
walther p99 wrote:
Matt S wrote:

Zimmer's name has already been thrown around in this thread. I'm not the only one here who things Hans Zimmer would be a terrible fit for Bond, not least because Bond doesn't need generic-sounding action music. Thomas Newman clearly looked to Zimmer for his action music in his two Bond films, and we don't need any more of that!

As much as I agree that most of Newman's Bond score's are lackluster, especially Spectre, which was one of the dullest most generic score's ive ever heard and rightfully deserves all the flak it gets. His Skyfall score though which didn't feature Adele's song was the highest selling Bond score in 27 years and nominated for an Oscar. So even as generic and Zimmer-inspired as it was it clearly made an impact with the general public. I cant and wont defend Spectre's score though, that score was absolute sh*t.

Sales don't indicate quality, particularly when it comes to music. Justin Bieber is currently at the top of the charts. Film score quality is in such a sad state today that there aren't many good choices when it comes to Oscar nominations. The other four nominees that year were infinitely better than Skyfall's score.

That's true, I just don't think Skyfall's score is as bad as some think it is at least in comparison to Spectre.

@deanwdunlevy

99

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

walther p99 wrote:
Matt S wrote:
walther p99 wrote:

As much as I agree that most of Newman's Bond score's are lackluster, especially Spectre, which was one of the dullest most generic score's ive ever heard and rightfully deserves all the flak it gets. His Skyfall score though which didn't feature Adele's song was the highest selling Bond score in 27 years and nominated for an Oscar. So even as generic and Zimmer-inspired as it was it clearly made an impact with the general public. I cant and wont defend Spectre's score though, that score was absolute sh*t.

Sales don't indicate quality, particularly when it comes to music. Justin Bieber is currently at the top of the charts. Film score quality is in such a sad state today that there aren't many good choices when it comes to Oscar nominations. The other four nominees that year were infinitely better than Skyfall's score.

That's true, I just don't think Skyfall's score is as bad as some think it is at least in comparison to Spectre.

Well, I don't think Skyfall's score is much better than Spectre's.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

It possibly suited the film better and added extra dourness to the already dour mood

It was either that.....or the priesthood