76

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

Gassy Man wrote:
Gala Brand wrote:

1)  Why does MI:6's greatest computer hacker even need to hire a hit man to steal a laptop hard drive? [Because he can't get the info otherwise] That's just speculation -- there's nothing onscreen to confirm this.  It's like saying Silva used a helicopter at the end because no cars were available at the rental agency.
2)  Why is a 00 sent to retrieve said hard drive, along with two agents who apparently are neither as skilled nor experienced? [The deal went sideways when Patrice intervened and Bond was called in as cleanup]Again, speculation.  There's nothing onscreen to confirm this.  If anything, based on the timing and onscreen information, Bond is in the middle of the operation, not sent in after the fact.
3)  How is it Bond is fitted with a tracker in Casino Royale (and again in Spectre) in an age of facial recognition and cameras everywhere, yet both he and Silva can just disappear off the grid without effort? [They're spies. And no tracker in Skyfall!].Speculation.  If spies are as good as this, they would never be able to find one another.  And Bond does get the radio tracker late,r which is how the helicopters get to Silva's island.
4)  How could Silva's plan to infiltrate MI:6 possibly have predicted every last detail, such as where Bond would be standing precisely when an Underground train is passing where a bomb somehow has been planted by somebody well beforehand and that a hearing on MI:6's relevancy would be scheduled later that day? [He had bombs set to go off all around London and lured Bond to that location]What is the onscreen evidence of this?  How did he lure Bond to the location when he wouldn't even know if Bond would still be at MI:6?
5)  How is it that Silva has destroyed MI:6 headquarters and outed agents worldwide but M's home is neither guarded nor treated as a target, too, even while MI:6 is now on "war footing"?[I don't remember this but M makes it clear that she doesn't want a bunch of carnage] If she doesn't want a bunch of carnage, why is she even staying in her own home?  If MI:6 is on "war footing," why is she not staying there?  She's arguably the most important person in the organization.
6) If Bond has been declared legally dead, to the point that his family estate is being sold off, why are his effects in storage, and who pocketed the money when his flat was sold?  If MI:6 owned the flat, why did they sell it? [Nobody was living in it]That still doesn't answer the question.  If no one is living in the flat and MI:6 somehow has the authority to sell it, then why not also sell Bond's effects, too?  What is the purpose of storing his personal belongings?  And if MI:6 owns an expensive flat in a wealthy section of London, why not just keep it for the next 007?
7) Just why does Bond think going to Skyfall somehow evens the odds when apparently he has no plan whatsoever for when he gets there other than to lure Silva there? [Silva's tech advantages would be limited, Bond would have the machine gun equipped AM and he expected to find a small armory of hunting rifles that he could use to pick off Silva's men from 500+ yards.]Onscreen evidence?  The best we get is that he's dismayed that there's not much left.  But even considering Bond might plan to play sniper -- which we have zero confirmation of -- that doesn't make sense when the plan we're shown is to hole up in the house.  In fact, nothing really makes sense.  How did Bond know of Mallory's leaving "bread crumbs" for Silva to follow?  Why doesn't Mallory dispatch reinforcements?  Why would Bond assume Silva's tech advantages are limited when he shows up in a heavily armed helicopter with a commando team?  I could almost give credit to the idea that Bond's plan was only to hide at Skyfall, but then Bond says onscreen that he knows Silva is coming.  There's nothing about Bond's plan that makes any sense strategically.
8) If Bond's goal was to stop Silva and keep M alive, how is it it he's not beyond despair for getting her killed? [He was.]Where onscreen does he say this?  He appears to grieve for some moments and then spend a lot of time on the rooftop staring.  But I don't see a moment where he seems affected by guilt at all, including in Spectre.

Hope that helps.

You've done more work here than the screenwriters -- which is why it's a lazy script.  I appreciate the effort, but there's very little onscreen to corroborate the speculation here. 

What you're doing is what Star Trek fans do to explain away inconsistencies when the continuity is disrupted.  Why didn't they use the shuttlecraft?  Oh, it was broken that week.  How is it Vulcans can't lie, but Spock does more than once during the series?  He's half human, so he can invoke that side of his heritage when necessary.  Why don't they just beam the genesis device into oblivion?  They couldn't get a lock on because of the nebula.

Better scripts don't require speculation.  Major plot issues are answered concretely either in dialogue or action or both.  Skyfall's is so sloppy in this regard, people have to do what you're doing, though my suspicion is the writer and director just assumed nobody would pay that close attention.  They bundled something together, put it out there, it made money, and that's that.

We don't need minor, obvious actions explained.  Did Bond open the car door before he got in?  Yeah, there's no other way except to break the window, which is intact.  How did Bond know where the warehouse was located?  I dunno, he googled it?  It's not hiding.  Where did M get that bulldog figurine?  A store.  How did Bond get back to London?  Airplane?  Then maybe a taxi?  These sorts of ordinary things have zero bearing on the plot. 

Now, compare this to the script for Casino Royale.  Why was LeChiffre going to bomb the plane?  He's a mathematical genius who needs to crash the stock to cover gambling losses.  Why doesn't M just have him assassinated?  She wants to shut his operation down and not just eliminate him personally.  Why does LeChiffre poison Bond?  He needs Bond out of the game and to make it look like natural causes.  Why is Vesper put on the mission?  She controls the finances and is a check-and-balance against Bond being reckless.  Why does Vesper turn on him?  She's being blackmailed by LeChiffre.  And so on.

The only thing the script doesn't really answer is whether or not Mathis really was a double agent working against Bond.  That's not even fully resolved in Quantum of Solace.  However, the implication is he was, in fact, a double agent since MI:6 takes him away in Casino Royale.  So it's really Quantum of Solace that muddles things, even though it's suggested in the film he wasn't (the girlfriend says he wasn't, but then Mathis' final words make it less certain.)

1) Silva requires a trojan horse. Both times, with hacking M's Laptop and with the Laptop being plugged into Mi6, they let him in.

2) the two agents in the flat were not retrieving it, they were simply in possession of it when Patrice broke in.

3) short answer is hopefully we aren't living in 1984, otherwise Silva and Blofeld are the good guys.

4) The subway bomb was planted by a henchman to a) cut off Silva's exit so he can't be followed and b) to cause a distraction which keeps the police away from the hearing. It doesn't matter where Bond is, and he can look up the train schedules online. He knows about the Meeting because he hacked M's email.

5)  She should be guarded but since she's the boss she can do whatever she wants and her character fits the stubborness

6) Mi6 didn't own the flat. As the sole beneficiary, "sold" means they terminated the lease. And they would auction his stuff eventually.

7) It evens the odds because Sierra has no hacking power because there are no computers.
+ Its an estate with a large deer population so Bond would logically expect rifles. He could've picked off some of the first wave, but the plan was always to booby trap the house because he anticipated correctly that Silva would likely show up at night.
+ Bond told Q to leave the Breadcrumbs
+ Several reasons Mallory wouldn't send reinforcements: 1, he isn't M and doesn't have the authority. 2, He said he doesn't want the PM to find out or they'll all be fired. 3, Reinforcements mean company cars which means Silva would see them and not bother to show up. The Breadcrumbs are basically an invitation to finish it.

8) no reason to feel guilty.

Mathis is innocent. Vesper is the one that told Le Chiffre his tell. Le Chiffre says "My friend Mathis" just  to keep Bonds suspicion off Vesper, so that he can threaten to kill her to get the password.

Last edited by Shatterfang (4th Oct 2019 10:33)

77

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

Nice thoughts there. I'm going to watch skyfall tomorrow at the  Royal Albert Hall for my b day should be a good laugh.
If the trailer for "No time to die" drops tomorrow as some expect. It would be cool if its played at this event.

Looking forward to the trailer dropping then we can further speculate on where the movie might rank.  ajb007/smile

78

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

I will now leave my list for the trailer drop. So that I am not tempted to revise it, I will call this my final countdown:

000
24. SP
23. TND
22. DAD

001
21. TMWTGG
20. QOS
19. OP

002
18. DAF
17. TWINE
16. YOLT

003
15. SF
14. FYEO
13. LTK

004
12. DN
11. AVTAK
10. GE

005
09. TSWLM
08. FRWL
07. CR

006
06. TLD
05. TB
04. OHMSS

007
03. GF
02. LALD
01. MR

(Spectre had one of the best trailers, so I'm not sure how helpful it will be in ranking)  ajb007/bond

79

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

after watching the trailer i'd say better than spectre prolly
so

1) Casino Royale
2) Skyfall
3) QOS
4) NTTD
5) Spectre

80

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

ellipsis97 wrote:

after watching the trailer i'd say better than spectre prolly
so

1) Casino Royale
2) Skyfall
3) QOS
4) NTTD
5) Spectre

My ranking, exactly, Ellipsis. All I know for sure is that we're in for an action packed PTS, probably the longest PTS in Bond history, and a great CR-style gunbarrel transition into the TS. Other than Matera, the trailer suffers from a lack of action and Bond doing bond things. As the producers confirmed, Bond takes second stage to the three leading ladies. Two take over the action and one takes over the plot (at least in the trailer). Beyond Bond taking second stage, action is again taking second stage to plot and tertiary characters, as was the problem with Spectre. Instead of correcting that, they are doubling down.

If I had to guess, it's looking in between QoS and TMWTGG, at #21 on my list. A great way to rank higher, or lower, would be running time. Between 110 and 120 minutes and we could have a breezy fast-paced action movie. Longer than Spectre and I'd just as soon rank it dead last.

81

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

Shatterfang wrote:
ellipsis97 wrote:

after watching the trailer i'd say better than spectre prolly
so

1) Casino Royale
2) Skyfall
3) QOS
4) NTTD
5) Spectre

My ranking, exactly, Ellipsis. All I know for sure is that we're in for an action packed PTS, probably the longest PTS in Bond history, and a great CR-style gunbarrel transition into the TS. Other than Matera, the trailer suffers from a lack of action and Bond doing bond things. As the producers confirmed, Bond takes second stage to the three leading ladies. Two take over the action and one takes over the plot (at least in the trailer). Beyond Bond taking second stage, action is again taking second stage to plot and tertiary characters, as was the problem with Spectre. Instead of correcting that, they are doubling down.

If I had to guess, it's looking in between QoS and TMWTGG, at #21 on my list. A great way to rank higher, or lower, would be running time. Between 110 and 120 minutes and we could have a breezy fast-paced action movie. Longer than Spectre and I'd just as soon rank it dead last.

Out of interest what are your top 3 bond movies?

82

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

Shatterfang wrote:

I will now leave my list for the trailer drop. So that I am not tempted to revise it, I will call this my final countdown:

000
24. SP
23. TND
22. DAD

001
21. TMWTGG
20. QOS
19. OP

002
18. DAF
17. TWINE
16. YOLT

003
15. SF
14. FYEO
13. LTK

004
12. DN
11. AVTAK
10. GE

005
09. TSWLM
08. FRWL
07. CR

006
06. TLD
05. TB
04. OHMSS

007
03. GF
02. LALD
01. MR

(Spectre had one of the best trailers, so I'm not sure how helpful it will be in ranking)  ajb007/bond

I see Spectre is 24 on your list, do you think theres any chance No time to die might strengthen your enjoyment of spectre and push it up the list??

83

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

I just hope it is better than Spectre. Being better than Quantum should be a given as that was a disaster. If it gets to the levels of Skyfall, then it is in top 10 territory and I am just not going to let myself get into that mentality. If it's a great movie, I'll be the first to standup and sing its praise but I don't want my expectations to be set high and leave myself disappointed.

I'm not even considering Casino Royale as that is my favorite Bond movie. If it surpasses that, then it would be my greatest Bond movie of all time and I don't think any of us are going into it with that mentality.

Great trailer though  ajb007/martini

Last edited by Sterling Archer (5th Dec 2019 00:59)

84

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

Sterling Archer wrote:

I just hope it is better than Spectre. Being better than Quantum should be a given as that was a disaster. If it gets to the levels of Skyfall, then it is in top 10 territory and I am just not going to let myself get into that mentality. If it's a great movie, I'll be the first to standup and sign its praise but I don't want my expectations to be set high and leave myself disappointed.

I'm not even considering Casino Royale as that is my favorite Bond movie. If it surpasses that, then it would be my greatest Bond movie of all time and I don't think any of us are going into it with that mentality.

Great trailer though  ajb007/martini

Casino is amazing, I think it could be on par with casino though. What's 2nd and 3rd at the top for you? Then your bottom 3?

85

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

You'veHadYourSix wrote:
Sterling Archer wrote:

I just hope it is better than Spectre. Being better than Quantum should be a given as that was a disaster. If it gets to the levels of Skyfall, then it is in top 10 territory and I am just not going to let myself get into that mentality. If it's a great movie, I'll be the first to standup and sign its praise but I don't want my expectations to be set high and leave myself disappointed.

I'm not even considering Casino Royale as that is my favorite Bond movie. If it surpasses that, then it would be my greatest Bond movie of all time and I don't think any of us are going into it with that mentality.

Great trailer though  ajb007/martini

Casino is amazing, I think it could be on par with casino though. What's 2nd and 3rd at the top for you? Then your bottom 3?

1. CR
2. OHMSS (Very close second)
3. FRWL

I haven't give too much thought to my bottom 3 but here are movies that I genuinely don't like in release order: A View to a Kill, License to Kill (need to rewatch this but remember not liking it), TWINE, DAD, and Quantum. There are others that are questionable but I choose to see the positive in them.

86

Re: Thoughts on where bond 25 will sit in the rankings.

You'veHadYourSix wrote:
Shatterfang wrote:

I will now leave my list for the trailer drop. So that I am not tempted to revise it, I will call this my final countdown:

000
24. SP
23. TND
22. DAD

001
21. TMWTGG
20. QOS
19. OP

002
18. DAF
17. TWINE
16. YOLT

003
15. SF
14. FYEO
13. LTK

004
12. DN
11. AVTAK
10. GE

005
09. TSWLM
08. FRWL
07. CR

006
06. TLD
05. TB
04. OHMSS

007
03. GF
02. LALD
01. MR

(Spectre had one of the best trailers, so I'm not sure how helpful it will be in ranking)  ajb007/bond

I see Spectre is 24 on your list, do you think theres any chance No time to die might strengthen your enjoyment of spectre and push it up the list??

The continuity stuff is pretty bad, but that isn't even my main gripe with Spectre. As I stated to Ellipsis, Spectre is long, dull, focuses on tertiary characters and subplot and not enough Bond and the villains, and the action sequences are just high speed photo ops.

I can overlook anything so long as there is fast pacing and good action.

Last edited by Shatterfang (5th Dec 2019 02:01)