An awesome Largo!!! Brandauer runs circles around Celi.No contest there.
Disagree. Celi owns largo. He looks like s pirate - which is the essence of the character
Is that it? the eyepatch? and a pirate in a white tux?
Not really. Fleming went into detail about the rise and blackmail of Largo. His rise through the mafia and playing off the nationalities, Celi has that to a tee.
I think Celi's Largo is mediocre at best. The least memorable villain of the 60s.
Brandauer's performance conveys real menace, as in the scene where he gives the necklace to Domino. It's a relaxed scene, they're laughing and playful, yet with a couple of Brandauer's simple gestures (the piano key, and the hand through his throat), while still laughing, you feel in your bones that Domino is trapped and in real danger.Brandauer is a fantastic actor.
No menace. He's like the Elliot Carver os NSNA..
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
Disagree. Celi owns largo. He looks like s pirate - which is the essence of the character
Is that it? the eyepatch? and a pirate in a white tux?
Not really. Fleming went into detail about the rise and blackmail of Largo. His rise through the mafia and playing off the nationalities, Celi has that to a tee.
I think Celi's Largo is mediocre at best. The least memorable villain of the 60s.
Brandauer's performance conveys real menace, as in the scene where he gives the necklace to Domino. It's a relaxed scene, they're laughing and playful, yet with a couple of Brandauer's simple gestures (the piano key, and the hand through his throat), while still laughing, you feel in your bones that Domino is trapped and in real danger.Brandauer is a fantastic actor.
No menace. He's like the Elliot Carver os NSNA..
We'll have to agree to disagree. Comparing Brandauer to Pryce's Elliot Carver (possibly my least favourite villain in my least favourite movie, TND) is too wide a gap to even discuss.
I dislike both of these movies immensely -- neither of them do justice to Fleming's terrific Thunderball novel -- but admittedly I'll give the edge to Never Say Never Again, a flat yet occasionally entertaining effort, over the terribly boring, poorly-paced and supremely overrated Thunderball.
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
They are both pretty lousy films IMO, but I'll gladly watch Never Say Never Again any day of the week.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Thunderball is ten times better, and I don't even like Thunderball that much!
Trying to be as objective as possible... Thunderball is atrociously paced & needlessly overstuffed with useless secondary characters (Felix, Pinder, etc) that don't do anything for the plot. It's a film about a pressing Cold War threat that feels like a vacation movie; I find this to be supremely problematic.
So even if Thunderball *is* a better movie than Never Say Never Again -- which I won't refute -- I don't think the margin of quality is all that wide...
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Some of us like Thunderball, some like NSNA. I say we all head out
To the car park and FIGHT !!! )
To give an analogy, I hate leeks X-( and no amount of people telling
Me how good they are for me. Or how nice they taste will ever change
That. )
Hence for whatever reasons I love TB and really dislike NSNA.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Some of us like Thunderball, some like NSNA. I say we all head out
To the car park and FIGHT !!! )
To give an analogy, I hate leeks X-( and no amount of people telling
Me how good they are for me. Or how nice they taste will ever change
That. )
Hence for whatever reasons I love TB and really dislike NSNA.
'Pussy, you're incorrigible!
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Thunderball all the way! great locations, photography, dialogue, and Connery was at the height of his powers. The whole Casino scene from when Bond is first on the boat to the casino, through the game, to him dancing with Domino, is one of the most enduringly appealing scenes in the Bond films. :007)
Celi's Largo IMO was much more menacing and believable as a SPECTRE chief. Brandauer, while a very fine actor, didn't have that tough-guy menace.
I dislike both of these movies immensely -- neither of them do justice to Fleming's terrific Thunderball novel -- but admittedly I'll give the edge to Never Say Never Again, a flat yet occasionally entertaining effort, over the terribly boring, poorly-paced and supremely overrated Thunderball.
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
They are both pretty lousy films IMO, but I'll gladly watch Never Say Never Again any day of the week.
I agree with everything. None of them are near my top five , but I think of the two NSNA has the upper hand. TB deffinitely feels rushed . Poorly paced as you mention, and I agree it's vastly overrated.
Sorry thought this was a forum for opinions. Ita unofficial drivel I like the real films. Thats all I have to say. If you dont agree with my posts dont read them, kind of like following your own advice.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude. Let me try to explain. It sounds like you want NSNA to be erased from the history books with all master copies destroyed. Since that's obviously not going to happen, the next best thing is to simply not watch it. Not own it on DVD. Not even talk about it. Heck, I'm a fan of NSNA and I often forget that it exists! )
As for doing harm to Connery's reputation I don't think it's really much of a threat. It currently holds a 60% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes. Roger Ebert gave the film 3.5 stars out of 4
The whole Casino scene from when Bond is first on the boat to the casino, through the game, to him dancing with Domino, is one of the most enduringly appealing scenes in the Bond films.
I like that scene in TB very much. However, all of that is updated in NSNA very well IMO. The Casino is Montecarlo, the computer game is so original (they didn't go for the usual card game, which is great), and the dance with Domino is very well shot and spectacular. Let's not forget, Irvin Kershner had just directed "The Empire Strikes Back".
TB might be my least favorite Connery film (maybe DAF?), but yes it is better than NSNA. I would agree with those that have said the margin is not as wide as most would like to believe.
NSNA again does get credit for having one of my favorite jokes though, the free radicals joke never gets old.
Having the worst soundtrack ever and a scene where Bond plays videogames far outweighs any positives though.
Thunderball is much better, but Never Say Never Again was the closest thing -- and still is, in many ways -- to a classic 1960s Bond film after the 1960s.
It breaks down for two reasons:
1) The producers had to walk a fine line between being a Bond film and intruding on anything that Eon could sue them for. That includes, of course, the music, but also the cinema trademarks, such as the gunbarrel, the teaser sequence (as done by Eon), the Moneypenny byplay, the Q sequences, and so forth. Given that so much of this is different or nonexistent in the novels, it's remarkable in some ways that the film resembles a Bond film as much as it did. I suspect the score, at least in part, is so awful because of an overzealous need to differentiate it from a typical Bond score.
2) The substitution of camp for wit. Again, this may have been a concession to not producing a film whose tone and execution were too similar to the Eon productions. It doesn't help that Lorenzo Semple, one of the Batman TV show writers, worked on the script, which can't quite figure out what it wants to be. At the same time, the last film Connery did as Bond had a very similar tone, so perhaps the producers were thinking this was a natural bridge. It was also the 1980s, a period of time when Hollywood people seemed to have lost their minds.
All things considered, Never Say Never Again is an under-appreciated film. Simply rescoring it would go a long way in giving it a better feel. Many scenes look more like a Bond film than those in the Moore films of the time -- the lighting and cinematography, among other things. Klaus Maria Brandauer is an effective Bond villain -- eminently more interesting than Christopher Walken in A View to a Kill or Jon Don Baker in The Living Daylights. Even the weak spots -- such as Kim Basinger -- are not unremarkable for the time. Compare her bland performance to that of Tanya Roberts or Taliso Soto.
The lighting in the grotto scenes ( getting the bomb ready) is terrible, far, far
Too bright. . They are supposed to be underground but the set is so brightly lit.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
1) The producers had to walk a fine line between being a Bond film and intruding on anything that Eon could sue them for. That includes, of course, the music, but also the cinema trademarks, such as the gunbarrel, the teaser sequence (as done by Eon), the Moneypenny byplay, the Q sequences, and so forth. Given that so much of this is different or nonexistent in the novels, it's remarkable in some ways that the film resembles a Bond film as much as it did. I suspect the score, at least in part, is so awful because of an overzealous need to differentiate it from a typical Bond score.
The lighting in the grotto scenes ( getting the bomb ready) is terrible, far, far
Too bright. . They are supposed to be underground but the set is so brightly lit.
In order to manipulate a nuclear device in a grotto, I would try to light the place properly, wouldn't you?
But it's so brightly lit, there are no shadows, anywhere ! It's just
One of the little things that makes the film looks odd. I think even
Irvin Kershner mentioned it in an interview, saying they didn't have
Time to fix it.
Counter that with the fantastic moody lighting in various parts of
SF, in my opinion good lighting really helps the atmosphere of a scene.
Although as always, it may not bother some and indeed some might
Actually like it. No problem with that.
Also if I was to steal a nuclear war head, I wouldn't mess it up like Largo ! )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
I generally agree with this except the part about writing out Fiona in Thunderball. Without her we would have been deprived of one of the sexiest women (Luciana Paluzzi) in whole Bond series!
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
I generally agree with this except the part about writing out Fiona in Thunderball. Without her we would have been deprived of one of the sexiest women (Luciana Paluzzi) in whole Bond series!
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
I generally agree with this except the part about writing out Fiona in Thunderball. Without her we would have been deprived of one of the sexiest women (Luciana Paluzzi) in whole Bond series!
Yeah, I wouldn't want to miss Luciana Paluzzi.
Which Domino would you prefer?
Top 10 Bond Films
1. Thunderball 2. FRWL 3. Casino Royale 4. TLD 5. OHMSS 6. SkyFall 7. GF 8. TSWLM 9. GE 10. FYEO
I generally agree with this except the part about writing out Fiona in Thunderball. Without her we would have been deprived of one of the sexiest women (Luciana Paluzzi) in whole Bond series!
Yeah, I wouldn't want to miss Luciana Paluzzi.
Which Domino would you prefer?
Good question...Performance, Kim Basinger, hands down. Claudine Auger could not act, but she was really hot. And yet Kim Basinger was THE sex symbol of the 80s...Too close to call.
Comments
1. Thunderball 2. FRWL 3. Casino Royale 4. TLD 5. OHMSS 6. SkyFall 7. GF 8. TSWLM 9. GE 10. FYEO
Not really. Fleming went into detail about the rise and blackmail of Largo. His rise through the mafia and playing off the nationalities, Celi has that to a tee.
No menace. He's like the Elliot Carver os NSNA..
We'll have to agree to disagree. Comparing Brandauer to Pryce's Elliot Carver (possibly my least favourite villain in my least favourite movie, TND) is too wide a gap to even discuss.
For me, the primary reason is that the villains of Never Say Never Again are well-acted and actually function as characters; we understand why Domino is attracted to Largo in the first place, and the film does an adequate job of making the audience feel something when she ultimately betrays his trust. Contrast this relationship between Domino and Largo in the original Thunderball... there really is NO relationship. Also Barbara Carrera is wonderfully batty as Fatima Blush; Fiona Volpe could have been written out of Thunderball entirely and it would have been the exact same film.
They are both pretty lousy films IMO, but I'll gladly watch Never Say Never Again any day of the week.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Trying to be as objective as possible... Thunderball is atrociously paced & needlessly overstuffed with useless secondary characters (Felix, Pinder, etc) that don't do anything for the plot. It's a film about a pressing Cold War threat that feels like a vacation movie; I find this to be supremely problematic.
So even if Thunderball *is* a better movie than Never Say Never Again -- which I won't refute -- I don't think the margin of quality is all that wide...
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
To the car park and FIGHT !!!
To give an analogy, I hate leeks X-( and no amount of people telling
Me how good they are for me. Or how nice they taste will ever change
That.
Hence for whatever reasons I love TB and really dislike NSNA.
'Pussy, you're incorrigible!
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Celi's Largo IMO was much more menacing and believable as a SPECTRE chief. Brandauer, while a very fine actor, didn't have that tough-guy menace.
I agree with everything. None of them are near my top five , but I think of the two NSNA has the upper hand. TB deffinitely feels rushed . Poorly paced as you mention, and I agree it's vastly overrated.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude. Let me try to explain. It sounds like you want NSNA to be erased from the history books with all master copies destroyed. Since that's obviously not going to happen, the next best thing is to simply not watch it. Not own it on DVD. Not even talk about it. Heck, I'm a fan of NSNA and I often forget that it exists!
As for doing harm to Connery's reputation I don't think it's really much of a threat. It currently holds a 60% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes. Roger Ebert gave the film 3.5 stars out of 4
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/never-say-never-again-1983
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
I like that scene in TB very much. However, all of that is updated in NSNA very well IMO. The Casino is Montecarlo, the computer game is so original (they didn't go for the usual card game, which is great), and the dance with Domino is very well shot and spectacular. Let's not forget, Irvin Kershner had just directed "The Empire Strikes Back".
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
NSNA again does get credit for having one of my favorite jokes though, the free radicals joke never gets old.
Having the worst soundtrack ever and a scene where Bond plays videogames far outweighs any positives though.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
It breaks down for two reasons:
1) The producers had to walk a fine line between being a Bond film and intruding on anything that Eon could sue them for. That includes, of course, the music, but also the cinema trademarks, such as the gunbarrel, the teaser sequence (as done by Eon), the Moneypenny byplay, the Q sequences, and so forth. Given that so much of this is different or nonexistent in the novels, it's remarkable in some ways that the film resembles a Bond film as much as it did. I suspect the score, at least in part, is so awful because of an overzealous need to differentiate it from a typical Bond score.
2) The substitution of camp for wit. Again, this may have been a concession to not producing a film whose tone and execution were too similar to the Eon productions. It doesn't help that Lorenzo Semple, one of the Batman TV show writers, worked on the script, which can't quite figure out what it wants to be. At the same time, the last film Connery did as Bond had a very similar tone, so perhaps the producers were thinking this was a natural bridge. It was also the 1980s, a period of time when Hollywood people seemed to have lost their minds.
All things considered, Never Say Never Again is an under-appreciated film. Simply rescoring it would go a long way in giving it a better feel. Many scenes look more like a Bond film than those in the Moore films of the time -- the lighting and cinematography, among other things. Klaus Maria Brandauer is an effective Bond villain -- eminently more interesting than Christopher Walken in A View to a Kill or Jon Don Baker in The Living Daylights. Even the weak spots -- such as Kim Basinger -- are not unremarkable for the time. Compare her bland performance to that of Tanya Roberts or Taliso Soto.
Too bright.
Very good point.
Absolutely.
In order to manipulate a nuclear device in a grotto, I would try to light the place properly, wouldn't you?
One of the little things that makes the film looks odd. I think even
Irvin Kershner mentioned it in an interview, saying they didn't have
Time to fix it.
Counter that with the fantastic moody lighting in various parts of
SF, in my opinion good lighting really helps the atmosphere of a scene.
Although as always, it may not bother some and indeed some might
Actually like it. No problem with that.
Also if I was to steal a nuclear war head, I wouldn't mess it up like Largo !
Give me NSNA over any Roger Moore Bond film (except FYEO and OP) any day of the week!
I generally agree with this except the part about writing out Fiona in Thunderball. Without her we would have been deprived of one of the sexiest women (Luciana Paluzzi) in whole Bond series!
Yeah, I wouldn't want to miss Luciana Paluzzi.
1. Thunderball 2. FRWL 3. Casino Royale 4. TLD 5. OHMSS 6. SkyFall 7. GF 8. TSWLM 9. GE 10. FYEO
Good question...Performance, Kim Basinger, hands down. Claudine Auger could not act, but she was really hot. And yet Kim Basinger was THE sex symbol of the 80s...Too close to call.