Last nights episode is literally the best I have seen in the last couple of seasons. So many things happening. Terrific. If the final shows are anything like that I may consider it the best TV show ever.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
Episode 82 isn't available on "On Demand" tonight, so I haven't seen it yet X-(
Based on the prior four episodes, though...I agree with HH that it could get a bit messy, as things begin to unravel :v B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Episode 82 isn't available on "On Demand" tonight, so I haven't seen it yet
Did you get to see it? If so thoughts?
I have seen it now...and holy s**t
What I love about these last few episodes is the absolute unpredictability of it all. Everybody seems to be on the knife's edge of something decisive---and final. Christopher, after his recent visit to his writer buddy, seems the most likely to teeter over at the moment...you have to expect it ought to come back and haunt him...And A.J. is about to make a career move, I think...
This vague but insistent delving into the terrorist thing is interesting---is Tony going to end up a hero for busting out a Jersey-based Al-Qaida ring? )
As HH has pointed out, it's probably not realistic to expect any neatly tied-up package when it's all said and done---but the speculation as to who will live...and who will die...is delicious B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
Anybody seen Episode 83?
Christopher's gotten high for the last time... :v
Three episodes left; the peyote's been eaten, and all bets are off B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
Ooookay.
Did anybody else see the series finale??
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
I sure did, Loeffs. Uh... what happened???
I guess now they can make a movie.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
I don't think there will be a movie...
I think Tony's as dead as Julius Caesar...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
But there's no way of knowing, is there?
I mean, I suppose the point of that... ending... was to let people think what they want to think. So maybe a movie would be out of the question, but it is still a possibility in my book.
Just about all the stories I've read on the finale have been extremely negative, many calling it the worst sendoff ever.
The show was always more about the relationships between the characters than who gets whacked next. So in that respect, I guess a big ending that ties up all the loose threads would have been an unrealistic expectation.
As for any future Sopranos movie, I'd read a recent interview with James Gandolfini in which he pretty firmly closed the door on that possibility. He basically said he was happy to be done with the character and that by the end of the run, Tony had really become too dark for him to be able to relate to, specifically mentioning the final act with Christopher as the point at which Tony crossed the line for him.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I had a feeling that last night's episode wasn't going to set audiences on its ear. There was the obvious closure to that thing and the remainder of the show was just coasting...
I wasn't upset about how it ended especially after that bloodbath the previous week but perhaps empty would be a better word.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I think EMPTY is the right word. I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation of something, I am not sure what, and nothing happened.
I was not surprised by the thing with Phil Leatardo(sp?)
"A blunt instrument wielded by a Government department. Hard, ruthless, sardonic, fatalistic. He likes gambling, golf, fast motor cars. All his movements are relaxed and economical". Ian Fleming
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,699MI6 Agent
I just read somewhere else that little Steven Van Zandt was on radio show after the finale aired. At the end of the interview Steven said "when you see the show a few times, start checking out the credits at the end a little more closely. There's some interesting things."
I wonder what he means by that.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
I just read somewhere else that little Steven Van Zandt was on radio show after the finale aired. At the end of the interview Steven said "when you see the show a few times, start checking out the credits at the end a little more closely. There's some interesting things."
I wonder what he means by that.
I've been surprised by the negative reaction to the finale...then again, maybe I'm not...
Personally, I think it was very well done, and here's why:
The first episode of Season 6B (this last run of eight episodes) contains a scene between Bobby and Tony on a boat fishing. At one point, Bobby talks about getting whacked, and says something to the effect of: "You probably don't even hear it when it happens."
Last week, as Tony lays down on the bed in the safe house, clutching his assault rifle, he flashes back to that scene very briefly before the episode ends.
I really think the guy who went into the bathroom---or one of the guys hovering near the deli bar---put a bullet through Tony's head, right in front of his family. The end. No time to react, no time to reflect---Hence the Journey song cut off in the middle, and the cut to black. He's dead.
That's how it happens for those not in the lucky minority who live to a ripe old age, I think.
It makes sense, when you think about the brokered 'truce' between Tony and the Brooklyn mob. They agree to allow Phil to be whacked---why not then just remove Tony when his guard goes down? Who's left...Paulie Walnuts? I'd say he's probably dead, too...we just never got to see it.
I'll really be surprised if they went the other way, and a Sopranos movie turns up in the pipeline...but then, I'm forever being surprised
Little Steven's remarks are intriguing. I'm going to watch it again tonight, just to make sure :v
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,699MI6 Agent
I just read somewhere else that little Steven Van Zandt was on radio show after the finale aired. At the end of the interview Steven said "when you see the show a few times, start checking out the credits at the end a little more closely. There's some interesting things."
I wonder what he means by that.
I've been surprised by the negative reaction to the finale...then again, maybe I'm not...
Personally, I think it was very well done, and here's why:
The first episode of Season 6B (this last run of eight episodes) contains a scene between Bobby and Tony on a boat fishing. At one point, Bobby talks about getting whacked, and says something to the effect of: "You probably don't even hear it when it happens."
Last week, as Tony lays down on the bed in the safe house, clutching his assault rifle, he flashes back to that scene very briefly before the episode ends.
I really think the guy who went into the bathroom---or one of the guys hovering near the deli bar---put a bullet through Tony's head, right in front of his family. The end. No time to react, no time to reflect---Hence the Journey song cut off in the middle, and the cut to black. He's dead.
That's how it happens for those not in the lucky minority who live to a ripe old age, I think.
It makes sense, when you think about the brokered 'truce' between Tony and the Brooklyn mob. They agree to allow Phil to be whacked---why not then just remove Tony when his guard goes down? Who's left...Paulie Walnuts? I'd say he's probably dead, too...we just never got to see it.
I'll really be surprised if they went the other way, and a Sopranos movie turns up in the pipeline...but then, I'm forever being surprised
Little Steven's remarks are intriguing. I'm going to watch it again tonight, just to make sure :v
It's funny you post that in your spoiler Loeff. Because the message board where I got the Steven quote from someone had to say this:
the more i think about it, the more i believe tony was killed....
in fact, the ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed, well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all. i've gone through each season on dvd start to finish on numerous occasions.
the ending was simple: he got killed. here's my reasoning behind it. there were 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony...
the two black guys. they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, outside of the news stand with a bottle of orange juice.
also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is nikki leotardo, phil's nephew. he was in one of the early season episodes where phil and tony have a sit down.
here's where the genius comes in...
when tony's walking in the diner, you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking at the booth he's gonna sit at...
then the camera switches back to tony's face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking at the door and looking at the people coming in. everytime the door opens the chimes sound. carmela walks in, chimes. aj walks in, chimes, all this when meadow's parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant.
at this point the camera switches back to the guy who goes in the bathroom, then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner.
the doors about to open, tony looks up, and no chimes. no music. everything is black.
in one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tony's talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die. bobby says 'at the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black.'
part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the last seconds of it, when tony's about to go to sleep and he flashes back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black."
so in the end, the journey song was playing, the chimes on the door sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the grey jacket came out of the bathroom and killed tony...almost like a shot to the head reminiscent of phil at the gas station. perhaps this was taken from a page out of the godfather, with the gun in the bathroom.
its the reason you didn't hear or see **** when he died. it was from tony's perspective. and everything went black, then the credits rolled.
I wonder how many others think the same thing?
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
edited June 2007
I firmly believe this is the case.
I posted my opinion over on the HBO site...but things are CRAZY over there...my remarks vanished into the maelstrom, like a single straw being sucked into a hurricane... They're adding a page every minute...
It's sad the show is over, but I'm a big fan---and I'm completely in awe of the artistry wielded in bringing it about.
{[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I didn't want to watch Tony die. I didn't need to see the kids and Carmella see that happen, even though we pretty much know it did. Little Steven's tip off basically assures this since Phil's cousin was listed in the credits in the restaurant. The more I see it, the more I think it was the right ending, and even though I thought my cable had gone out at the worst possible moment in history, looking back, it was the best way to do it. That parallel parking scene with Meadow was excruciating! I couldn't take it another minute!
Apparently Steve Perry feels the same way I do about my favorite Journey song being used in the finale. I thought this was really interesting.
Here's to the end of one helluva great TV show {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The end of The Soprano's was YOU THE VIEWER getting whacked! The whole diner scene built up the tension Tony lives with everyday - the fear of being hit and there was a hit - on us.
While we were all watching the show, a mob hit man snuck into every one of our homes and took us out, while the Soprano's family life goes on as usual.
The TV screen went black and silent because we were dead, dead, dead.
I think that explaination makes the ending BRILLANT!
Loeff, have you seen this yet? I am NOT trying to start any type of political discussion about Hillary..I just thought it was really a funny spoof of the finale.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
I did see it...suffice it to say that Hillary's not going to get my vote in '08, but...that is a very clever and well-done spot.
Loved the bit of 'in character' Johnny Sack, glaring at her... ) Great stuff!
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
In Australia the final episodes are still being screened and I have only just seen Christopher get killed by Tony. Wow. I had not seen that coming. BTW, I missed the first part of one of the recent episodes, and while it's not a big deal, does anybody know where I can locate free transcripts of the season 6 episodes? I would be highly apprecoative. Thanks.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
In Australia the final episodes are still being screened and I have only just seen Christopher get killed by Tony. Wow. I had not seen that coming. BTW, I missed the first part of one of the recent episodes, and while it's not a big deal, does anybody know where I can locate free transcripts of the season 6 episodes? I would be highly apprecoative. Thanks.
Don't know of a page with transcripts per se, but here's a link to the Sopranos link on Wikipedia. It has a wealth of information on the show and tons of links. Hopefully, you'll find what you're looking for.
Some of the final episodes of The Sopranos were being shown on HBO this weekend and I must say, I find all the comments about not wanting to see see Tony die in the final show (and that's not a spoiler BTW) to be amusing but also terribly misguided. Tony is one of the most vile characters I've ever seen put to film. He's a crook, a murderer, a bigot, an adulterer, and an enabler of everyone's worst vices. Just in the last few episodes, he's directly responsible for Christopher falling off the wagon and Bobby committing his first murder. If anybody deserved a cruel and painful death, it was Tony Soprano. Likewise, I have little sympathy for his family, especially Carmela, who strikes me as one of the biggest hypocrites to appear on television.
I really enjoyed the show and I enjoyed the situations the characters get into, but I don't see how any of them could merit empathy or sympathy whatsoever.
Tony is one of the most vile characters I've ever seen put to film. He's a crook, a murderer, a bigot, an adulterer, and an enabler of everyone's worst vices.
But he is also someone you can care for, a family man that rewards loyalty, smart, charismatic. The fact that he was so well liked has a lot to do with the brilliance of both David Chase and James Gandolfini
Just in the last few episodes, he's directly responsible for Christopher falling off the wagon
How? the episode I saw Chris ordered his own drink, no one held a gun to his head. Tony did not offer any support but he is not responsible for Christopher's decision to start drinking again.
and Bobby committing his first murder.
Tony would have never asked him to do it if Bobby didn't kick his ass. You don't punch a "made guy" and you sure as hell do not sucker punch the boss of the family.
As for the popularity of gangsters that goes all the way back to Little Caesar(1930) TV/movie viewers love that type of anti hero for a verity of reasons, weather it's the code they live by or the audience is able to live vicariously through there actions. Who knows.
But he is also someone you can care for, a family man that rewards loyalty, smart, charismatic. The fact that he was so well liked has a lot to do with the brilliance of both David Chase and James Gandolfini
A family man would not cheat on his wife with a succession of women or insult and belittle her because she wouldn't join in on his gambling binge. He would not murder his own nephew. And how did he reward Vito's loyalty? Where was the honor in the way he decided to "help" Vito's widow and son? I agree that he was a very charismatic character, but likeable is not a word I'd associate with him.
How? the episode I saw Chris ordered his own drink, no one held a gun to his head. Tony did not offer any support but he is not responsible for Christopher's decision to start drinking again.
At several points in that very same episode Tony kept needling Christopher about not being around the business anymore and how things would be easier and smoother for him if he took a more active role in the family business. And even after Christopher told him point blank that it was dangerous for him to be in that environment with the booze and drugs, what does Tony do? He arranges for Chris and Paulie to make their peace at a bar. He doesn't even stand up for Chris when Paulie repeatedly insults his daughter. Tony pretty much had it in for Chris the minute he saw the character of "The Boss" from the Cleaver movie - whom he was convinced was modeled after him. From that point on, it was only a matter of time before Chris was snuffed out.
Tony would have never asked him to do it if Bobby didn't kick his ass. You don't punch a "made guy" and you sure as hell do not sucker punch the boss of the family.
Again, I see it a slightly different way. Tony didn't have Bobby kill that guy because Bobby punched Tony; he did it because Bobby beat the crap out of Tony in a fair fight and that stuck in Tony's craw. In fact, on several occasions prior to the meeting with the Canadians, Tony kept coming up with excuses about why he lost the fight.
That's the thing about Tony's character, he'd always turn every situation around so that it was about him. Even when he and Carmela go see their son's shrink, Tony turns it into a session about himself ("I could never please my mother...") as Carmela rolls her eyes.
As for the popularity of gangsters that goes all the way back to Little Caesar(1930) TV/movie viewers love that type of anti hero for a verity of reasons, weather it's the code they live by or the audience is able to live vicariously through there actions. Who knows.
I just subscribe to a different view of these kinds of movies and shows and the characters they depict, be it Tony Soprano or Michael Corleone. I enjoy them for their entertainment value, but I never really come to care for any of them. Maybe it's because I've worked for the courts and have seen one too many rap sheets but to my eyes there is nothing to like about these characters.
Don't know of a page with transcripts per se, but here's a link to the Sopranos link on Wikipedia. It has a wealth of information on the show and tons of links. Hopefully, you'll find what you're looking for.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Tony is one of the most vile characters I've ever seen put to film. He's a crook, a murderer, a bigot, an adulterer, and an enabler of everyone's worst vices. Just in the last few episodes, he's directly responsible for Christopher falling off the wagon and Bobby committing his first murder. If anybody deserved a cruel and painful death, it was Tony Soprano. Likewise, I have little sympathy for his family, especially Carmela, who strikes me as one of the biggest hypocrites to appear on television.
I find it interesting that you put adulterer in the same sentence as crook, murderer and bigot.
It's interesting that you say that, because in some ways I agree. While I do like Tony to some degree, he does keep on doing things that I truly loathe, such as his killing of Christopher which shocked me. However I think he is an extremely compelling character and enormously charismatic, and there are times in which I genuinely care for him. I must admitt that I am one of those people who doesn't want Tony to die, although that is not to say that I want him to have a completely happy ending.
As for Carmela, I think she is one of the most complexed and interesting female characters to be on TV in quite a while.
I really enjoyed the show and I enjoyed the situations the characters get into, but I don't see how any of them could merit empathy or sympathy whatsoever.
The one character that I did feel sympathy for, although he also made me uneasy (the last time, he visited the writer, I had a sinking feeling something was going to happen, and before I knew it, he shot him) was Christopher. I was quite taken back when he was killed. However, it must be said that I don't feel sympathy for these characters in the same way I felt sympathy for characters in Goodfellas or The Godfather.
But he is also someone you can care for, a family man that rewards loyalty, smart, charismatic. The fact that he was so well liked has a lot to do with the brilliance of both David Chase and James Gandolfini
That's why he is such an interesting character. He is not a black + White monster; he has some great qualities as well. That said, I wouldn't be inviting him over to dinner anytime soon.
BTW, Tony, while I agree with you that he treats Carmella horribly (she should have left him long ago) but I think he is a very good father who clearly loves and care for his children.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
At several points in that very same episode Tony kept needling Christopher about not being around the business anymore and how things would be easier and smoother for him if he took a more active role in the family business. And even after Christopher told him point blank that it was dangerous for him to be in that environment with the booze and drugs, what does Tony do? He arranges for Chris and Paulie to make their peace at a bar. He doesn't even stand up for Chris when Paulie repeatedly insults his daughter. Tony pretty much had it in for Chris the minute he saw the character of "The Boss" from the Cleaver movie - whom he was convinced was modeled after him. From that point on, it was only a matter of time before Chris was snuffed out.
This is one of the things that Tony did that I think was disgusting. He knew Christopher had a problem, yet he deliberately overlooked it and allowed Chirstopher to get drunk, be humiliated and slide back into the habbit. Horrible.
I just subscribe to a different view of these kinds of movies and shows and the characters they depict, be it Tony Soprano or Michael Corleone. I enjoy them for their entertainment value, but I never really come to care for any of them. Maybe it's because I've worked for the courts and have seen one too many rap sheets but to my eyes there is nothing to like about these characters.
I'm a huge fan of gangster films. Part of it's entertainment value, part of is the honour code, part of it is that I'm interested in crime history anyway, part of it is the power exhibited by these people and part of it is that in films like The Godfather, the Mafia is really a symbol for something else (family, government or big business.) In terms of caring for characters, I really cared for Michael (in all the films, but particularly the first,) but the character I especially cared for was Vito. As well as being a truly great character, he reminded me of my grandfather.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I must admitt that I am one of those people who doesn't want Tony to die, although that is not to say that I want him to have a completely happy ending.
I totally agree. No matter what Tony does, and he does some pretty loathsome things, I can still empathise with him. I think its because I always feel he will do the right thing eventually - but obviously he never does. It's very strange. I was watching a programme recently about a real gangster and all I could see was a low life scum.
We Brits are even further behind with this series.We've just had the Christopher episode and I have to admit I was shocked at Tony.I knew Christopher wasn't to make it to the end but that wasn't quite what I had in mind.
Comments
Based on the prior four episodes, though...I agree with HH that it could get a bit messy, as things begin to unravel :v B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
You'll love it when you do. Like KG says above, these are some of the best episodes, and Sunday's felt like one body shot after another.
I have seen it now...and holy s**t
What I love about these last few episodes is the absolute unpredictability of it all. Everybody seems to be on the knife's edge of something decisive---and final. Christopher, after his recent visit to his writer buddy, seems the most likely to teeter over at the moment...you have to expect it ought to come back and haunt him...And A.J. is about to make a career move, I think...
This vague but insistent delving into the terrorist thing is interesting---is Tony going to end up a hero for busting out a Jersey-based Al-Qaida ring?
As HH has pointed out, it's probably not realistic to expect any neatly tied-up package when it's all said and done---but the speculation as to who will live...and who will die...is delicious B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Three episodes left; the peyote's been eaten, and all bets are off B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Did anybody else see the series finale??
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I guess now they can make a movie.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I mean, I suppose the point of that... ending... was to let people think what they want to think. So maybe a movie would be out of the question, but it is still a possibility in my book.
The show was always more about the relationships between the characters than who gets whacked next. So in that respect, I guess a big ending that ties up all the loose threads would have been an unrealistic expectation.
As for any future Sopranos movie, I'd read a recent interview with James Gandolfini in which he pretty firmly closed the door on that possibility. He basically said he was happy to be done with the character and that by the end of the run, Tony had really become too dark for him to be able to relate to, specifically mentioning the final act with Christopher as the point at which Tony crossed the line for him.
I wasn't upset about how it ended especially after that bloodbath the previous week but perhaps empty would be a better word.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I was not surprised by the thing with Phil Leatardo(sp?)
I wonder what he means by that.
I've been surprised by the negative reaction to the finale...then again, maybe I'm not...
Personally, I think it was very well done, and here's why:
Last week, as Tony lays down on the bed in the safe house, clutching his assault rifle, he flashes back to that scene very briefly before the episode ends.
I really think the guy who went into the bathroom---or one of the guys hovering near the deli bar---put a bullet through Tony's head, right in front of his family. The end. No time to react, no time to reflect---Hence the Journey song cut off in the middle, and the cut to black. He's dead.
That's how it happens for those not in the lucky minority who live to a ripe old age, I think.
It makes sense, when you think about the brokered 'truce' between Tony and the Brooklyn mob. They agree to allow Phil to be whacked---why not then just remove Tony when his guard goes down? Who's left...Paulie Walnuts? I'd say he's probably dead, too...we just never got to see it.
I'll really be surprised if they went the other way, and a Sopranos movie turns up in the pipeline...but then, I'm forever being surprised
Little Steven's remarks are intriguing. I'm going to watch it again tonight, just to make sure :v
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It's funny you post that in your spoiler Loeff. Because the message board where I got the Steven quote from someone had to say this:
the more i think about it, the more i believe tony was killed....
in fact, the ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed, well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all. i've gone through each season on dvd start to finish on numerous occasions.
the ending was simple: he got killed. here's my reasoning behind it. there were 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony...
the two black guys. they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, outside of the news stand with a bottle of orange juice.
also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is nikki leotardo, phil's nephew. he was in one of the early season episodes where phil and tony have a sit down.
here's where the genius comes in...
when tony's walking in the diner, you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking at the booth he's gonna sit at...
then the camera switches back to tony's face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking at the door and looking at the people coming in. everytime the door opens the chimes sound. carmela walks in, chimes. aj walks in, chimes, all this when meadow's parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant.
at this point the camera switches back to the guy who goes in the bathroom, then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner.
the doors about to open, tony looks up, and no chimes. no music. everything is black.
in one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tony's talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die. bobby says 'at the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black.'
part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the last seconds of it, when tony's about to go to sleep and he flashes back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black."
so in the end, the journey song was playing, the chimes on the door sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the grey jacket came out of the bathroom and killed tony...almost like a shot to the head reminiscent of phil at the gas station. perhaps this was taken from a page out of the godfather, with the gun in the bathroom.
its the reason you didn't hear or see **** when he died. it was from tony's perspective. and everything went black, then the credits rolled.
I wonder how many others think the same thing?
I posted my opinion over on the HBO site...but things are CRAZY over there...my remarks vanished into the maelstrom, like a single straw being sucked into a hurricane...
It's sad the show is over, but I'm a big fan---and I'm completely in awe of the artistry wielded in bringing it about.
{[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Me too!!
Apparently Steve Perry feels the same way I do about my favorite Journey song being used in the finale. I thought this was really interesting.
Don't read it if you haven't seen the episode yet.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1562298/20070612/journey.jhtml
Great find, Mo, thanks!
Here's to the end of one helluva great TV show {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The end of The Soprano's was YOU THE VIEWER getting whacked! The whole diner scene built up the tension Tony lives with everyday - the fear of being hit and there was a hit - on us.
While we were all watching the show, a mob hit man snuck into every one of our homes and took us out, while the Soprano's family life goes on as usual.
The TV screen went black and silent because we were dead, dead, dead.
I think that explaination makes the ending BRILLANT!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9c1f27Ia_fc&mode=related&search=
Loved the bit of 'in character' Johnny Sack, glaring at her...
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Don't know of a page with transcripts per se, but here's a link to the Sopranos link on Wikipedia. It has a wealth of information on the show and tons of links. Hopefully, you'll find what you're looking for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sopranos
Some of the final episodes of The Sopranos were being shown on HBO this weekend and I must say, I find all the comments about not wanting to see see Tony die in the final show (and that's not a spoiler BTW) to be amusing but also terribly misguided. Tony is one of the most vile characters I've ever seen put to film. He's a crook, a murderer, a bigot, an adulterer, and an enabler of everyone's worst vices. Just in the last few episodes, he's directly responsible for Christopher falling off the wagon and Bobby committing his first murder. If anybody deserved a cruel and painful death, it was Tony Soprano. Likewise, I have little sympathy for his family, especially Carmela, who strikes me as one of the biggest hypocrites to appear on television.
I really enjoyed the show and I enjoyed the situations the characters get into, but I don't see how any of them could merit empathy or sympathy whatsoever.
As for the popularity of gangsters that goes all the way back to Little Caesar(1930) TV/movie viewers love that type of anti hero for a verity of reasons, weather it's the code they live by or the audience is able to live vicariously through there actions. Who knows.
A family man would not cheat on his wife with a succession of women or insult and belittle her because she wouldn't join in on his gambling binge. He would not murder his own nephew. And how did he reward Vito's loyalty? Where was the honor in the way he decided to "help" Vito's widow and son? I agree that he was a very charismatic character, but likeable is not a word I'd associate with him.
At several points in that very same episode Tony kept needling Christopher about not being around the business anymore and how things would be easier and smoother for him if he took a more active role in the family business. And even after Christopher told him point blank that it was dangerous for him to be in that environment with the booze and drugs, what does Tony do? He arranges for Chris and Paulie to make their peace at a bar. He doesn't even stand up for Chris when Paulie repeatedly insults his daughter. Tony pretty much had it in for Chris the minute he saw the character of "The Boss" from the Cleaver movie - whom he was convinced was modeled after him. From that point on, it was only a matter of time before Chris was snuffed out.
Again, I see it a slightly different way. Tony didn't have Bobby kill that guy because Bobby punched Tony; he did it because Bobby beat the crap out of Tony in a fair fight and that stuck in Tony's craw. In fact, on several occasions prior to the meeting with the Canadians, Tony kept coming up with excuses about why he lost the fight.
That's the thing about Tony's character, he'd always turn every situation around so that it was about him. Even when he and Carmela go see their son's shrink, Tony turns it into a session about himself ("I could never please my mother...") as Carmela rolls her eyes.
I just subscribe to a different view of these kinds of movies and shows and the characters they depict, be it Tony Soprano or Michael Corleone. I enjoy them for their entertainment value, but I never really come to care for any of them. Maybe it's because I've worked for the courts and have seen one too many rap sheets but to my eyes there is nothing to like about these characters.
It's interesting that you say that, because in some ways I agree. While I do like Tony to some degree, he does keep on doing things that I truly loathe, such as his killing of Christopher which shocked me. However I think he is an extremely compelling character and enormously charismatic, and there are times in which I genuinely care for him. I must admitt that I am one of those people who doesn't want Tony to die, although that is not to say that I want him to have a completely happy ending.
As for Carmela, I think she is one of the most complexed and interesting female characters to be on TV in quite a while.
The one character that I did feel sympathy for, although he also made me uneasy (the last time, he visited the writer, I had a sinking feeling something was going to happen, and before I knew it, he shot him) was Christopher. I was quite taken back when he was killed. However, it must be said that I don't feel sympathy for these characters in the same way I felt sympathy for characters in Goodfellas or The Godfather.
That's why he is such an interesting character. He is not a black + White monster; he has some great qualities as well. That said, I wouldn't be inviting him over to dinner anytime soon.
BTW, Tony, while I agree with you that he treats Carmella horribly (she should have left him long ago) but I think he is a very good father who clearly loves and care for his children.
I'm a huge fan of gangster films. Part of it's entertainment value, part of is the honour code, part of it is that I'm interested in crime history anyway, part of it is the power exhibited by these people and part of it is that in films like The Godfather, the Mafia is really a symbol for something else (family, government or big business.) In terms of caring for characters, I really cared for Michael (in all the films, but particularly the first,) but the character I especially cared for was Vito. As well as being a truly great character, he reminded me of my grandfather.
I totally agree. No matter what Tony does, and he does some pretty loathsome things, I can still empathise with him. I think its because I always feel he will do the right thing eventually - but obviously he never does. It's very strange. I was watching a programme recently about a real gangster and all I could see was a low life scum.
We Brits are even further behind with this series.We've just had the Christopher episode and I have to admit I was shocked at Tony.I knew Christopher wasn't to make it to the end but that wasn't quite what I had in mind.