beretta 25

Sir Gawain Moore 008

I have been reading Casino Royale, Live and Let Die and now Doctor No. In the first two Bond was using the Beretta 25 and presumably in at least one more book before he uses the more famous PPK Walther.

In the films, do you think Bond should have used the Beretta? At least for the first film? (Doctor No or Casino Royale, whichever you count as the first...

KGB with love

Yeah, he should. I loved Bond's comments about it in Dr. No{[]

7289

It is just an unhappy coincidence they started the films with Dr. No, If they had done Live and Let Die first then Bond could have used the .25 Beretta.

Sadly, when they made Dr. No they gave Connery the wrong pistols, a Beretta 1934 instead of a Model 418, and a Walther PP instead of the PPK. Had they made another film, they would have most likely made the same errors.

In all subtle mistakes, but mistakes just the same. But thats all water that flowed under the bridge some forty plus years ago.

I would have loved to see oo7 take on the worlds greatest villians with a gun Brad Whitaker would surely have called a "pea shooter"!

Johmss

The speech Bond gives when his Beretta is retired is good... better the feeling abou it in the book. I believe they should do the same when he changed the PPK, but as that was a marketing move (forgive me if i'm wrong) that didn't happened.

Perhaps in DAD, instead of the Revolver it would be nice to give him the beretta.

dirtyharrysw44

with all this talk about 007's guns, Did anybody ever notice the gun that Bond uses to kill professor Dent, in Dr.No? It is obviously a "FN Browning M1910, which he attaches a silencer to, and then removes with a simple tug. That particular scene, required a silenced weapon, and thats probably all they had in the prop department at the time. Did anybody else ever notice that????

7289

Yes I noticed it years ago!!!

Please note also that Professor Dent's silenced pistol is a Colt 1911 that will hold up to 8 cartridges and not a "Smith & Wesson" which holds six rounds.

The "goof" was just a prop department error, due to inattentiveness or just plain "who cares". Other notable errors: Bond's PPK .32 is a PP in .38; The .25 Beretta is a .32, On Crab Key Bond is shown shooting a Colt 1911 with blanks and other cuts show him "jerking" an empty Walther.

The prop boys did an okay job, the difficulty was getting Fleming's gun choices to work for films - back in the early '60's they hadn't spent alot of time getting small automatic pistols to work with blanks.

dirtyharrysw44

Yes, a great scene where you notice the PP in Dr.NO is when he holds it to the taxi drivers back. I also did notice Dents 1911. None the less - when I was a kid I always thought that scene was great - "thats a smith and wesson..and youve had your 6", today, I still think its cool, although incorrect

7289

Harry,

I agree 100%

dirtyharrysw44

im glad im not the only one {[]

Mark Hazard

dirtyharrysw44 wrote:

with all this talk about 007's guns, Did anybody ever notice the gun that Bond uses to kill professor Dent, in Dr.No? It is obviously a "FN Browning M1910, which he attaches a silencer to, and then removes with a simple tug. That particular scene, required a silenced weapon, and thats probably all they had in the prop department at the time. Did anybody else ever notice that????

Yes, even as a kid in the 60s I noticed that, but then I was very into guns. I understand (from correspondence with the late Geoffrey Boothroyd) that the silenced PPK (or even PP) was not reliable/capable of repeated discharges, but the Browning 1910 had a proven track record in other films, so the Browning was used. The film makers hoping that viewers would not notice, and most (until the advent of VHS) didn't.

7289

Mark Hazard wrote:

I understand (from correspondence with the late Geoffrey Boothroyd) that the silenced PPK (or even PP) was not reliable/capable of repeated discharges, but the Browning 1910 had a proven track record in other films, so the Browning was used.

Mark,

Did you actually correspond with Boothroyd? I had his phone number in the 1980's but was to shy to call, wish I had now - I'm sure he could have handled my stupidity.

Has anyone also noticed in Dr. No that when Bond pulls the Browning from the "floppy" shoulder holster it takes a real tug to get it out. Evidently the holster was also modified in some way.

Mark Hazard

7289 wrote:

Mark Hazard wrote:

I understand (from correspondence with the late Geoffrey Boothroyd) that the silenced PPK (or even PP) was not reliable/capable of repeated discharges, but the Browning 1910 had a proven track record in other films, so the Browning was used.

Mark,

Did you actually correspond with Boothroyd? I had his phone number in the 1980's but was to shy to call, wish I had now - I'm sure he could have handled my stupidity.

Yes, we exchanged a few letters and I spoke to him a number of times. Initial contact was made through a British gun magazine, when I needed an answer to a question relating to him and 007 for something I was writing - can't remember the exact reason now. Anyway, he helped me and we kept in touch - although only loosely. I'm sure he would have handled your "stupidity" had you phoned.

Sometime later the James Bond Exhibition that was touring the country (I visited the Leeds Armoury event) before traveling overeas, was due to be sited in Glasgow (I think) and as Geoffrey lived in Glasgow, I asked if he would be interested in attending and then contacted the organisers. As I couldn't co-ordinate things from the Midlands I involved Bond & Beyond to co-ordinate with the organisers (here my memory becomes fuzzy - I'm getting on you know), but I think this led to an interview with Geoffrey promoting the event up there.

Sadly I was awaiting a reply to a letter from him when I heard of his passing.

7289

Mark,

Prehaps you can shed light on some questions I have been researching regards Bond's firearms.

As you know, Boothroyd recommended two S&W revolvers for oo7, but Fleming arms Bond with only one of the S&W's and added the PPK.

I know Boothroyd suggested the PPK for enemy agents, but what convinced him to arm Bond with one. Was this choice a surprise to Boothroyd?

Also, It has been written that Fleming wanted to purchase a S&W Centennial but was unable to export one. As there are photos of Fleming with a Centennial, do you know if he personally ever obtained one?

Mark Hazard

7289 wrote:

Mark,

Prehaps you can shed light on some questions I have been researching regards Bond's firearms.

As you know, Boothroyd recommended two S&W revolvers for oo7, but Fleming arms Bond with only one of the S&W's and added the PPK.

I know Boothroyd suggested the PPK for enemy agents, but what convinced him to arm Bond with one. Was this choice a surprise to Boothroyd?

Boothroyd did actually recommend the PPK for Bond to Fleming:

"For carrying on the person, the following arms could be chosen: Walther P.P.K. 7.65mm., Mauser H.Sc. 7.65mm. or the Walther P.P. in 7.65mm. cal., Sauer Model 38H in 7.65mm. calibre."

(quote from one of Boothroyd's letters as quoted in For Bond Lovers Only)

What surprised Boothroyd was using the PPK with the Berns-Martin triple draw holster - a revolver holster.

7289 wrote:

Mark,
Also, It has been written that Fleming wanted to purchase a S&W Centennial but was unable to export one. As there are photos of Fleming with a Centennial, do you know if he personally ever obtained one?

Sorry, off the top of my head, I don't know the answer to that one and my other books for reference are tucked away.

7289

Mark,

Thanks!!!

Walther PPK

As far as I know the only gun Fleming ever owned that appeared in the novels was the Colt Police Positive in . 38 caliber. You can see a picture of him with on old paperbacks of the Novels from the New American Library.

Until meeting Boothroyd Fleming had very littleknowage about guns, since he was a desk bound Naval Intelligence officer. What is interesting is that in Casino Royale Bond also has a Colt Police Positive which I believe is his main weapon, thought it is never seen afterwards.



As for Bond using the Beretta .25 The closest he ever came was the 1954 TV version of Casino Royale,Bond steals an automatic pistol from one of Le Chiffre's thugs, and judgeing by it's size it must a .22 or .25 caliber. Also in LTK the pistol that Bond barrows from Pam is a Beretta 950 in .25 caliber, he never kills anyone with it thought, it is lost in the rooftop fight with the Hong Kong drug enforcement agents.

7289

Thanks PPK!

I hate to sound like a "knowitall" - but old IF had a fair knowledge of guns - but was far from a "gun nut" so didn't have model numbers and calibers down real well.

Per his biography IF owned at least two handguns prior to his fame as Bond's creator. One was an FN/Browning .25 issued to him by Naval Intelligence during the war ( I guess he was lucky enough to be allowed to keep it ) The other was a Colt presented to him by OSS General Donovan, this was engraved "For Special Services" on the backstrap. For some reason it is often listed as a "Police Positive", but it was really the slightly larger "Offical Police" Model.

After his inital contact with Boothroyd, IF was keen to get hold of a Smith & Wesson Centennial for his own use. The legend is that he found one in New York - but couldn't get a permit to take it out of the US.

I was hoping someone who actually had contact with Boothroyd would have known if Fleming ever acquired a Centennial. There are photos of him posing with one - but to whom did it belong?

BTW: The Fleming family recently auctioned off a short barreled Colt Python, presented to "The Master" by the Colt Company.