I will start off though by saying that Octopussy is good. Cool story, ok villains (but nothing special), good bond girl, nice locations, and generally an ejoyable outing.
But for me AVTAK is far better. I think the story is even stronger, and also the action is far more memorable. Max Zorin is one of the best Bond villains ever, as opposed to the (boring) Kamal Khan. Walken did a great job, and he was extremely memorable. The locations in AVTAK were also completely memorable, with landmarks such as the eifell tower, and the golden gate bridge. The mine was also a great location, with great action in it. The only thing in my opinion that lets AVTAK down is may day and stacey sutton. Mayday makes me cringe, and stacey sutton is just far too subordinate. But apart from that it's an excellent film, and I'd watch it over Octopussy anyday.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
I'll drink to that {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Tee HeeCBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
I don't know about that. OP was two years before AVTAK, and IMO Moore aged a hundred years in that period. Plus, I think that AVTAK, unlike OP (and also FYEO) completely mishandled Moore's age. Say what you want about OP, but at least in that film, he was teamed with Maud Adams, and not Tanya Roberts! ) No, I think that, unlike AVTAK, Moore looked just fine in OP.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
Nothing like a little hogwash to wash down that tripe from 2006. Right Loeffs? )
Well...okay...having had the hogwash (OP and AVTAK), the tripe did taste quite a bit better B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Octopussy was the first Bond film that I saw, and for that, I owe it some gratitude. Gratitude aside, it is still a fine film. The train sequence is great, the circus sequence is great, the twin knife throwers are great and Louis Jordan is terrific. The only thing that I don't care for is the theme song; it screams adult contemporary- bland, hokey and unexciting.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
I don't know about that. OP was two years before AVTAK, and IMO Moore aged a hundred years in that period. Plus, I think that AVTAK, unlike OP (and also FYEO) completely mishandled Moore's age. Say what you want about OP, but at least in that film, he was teamed with Maud Adams, and not Tanya Roberts! ) No, I think that, unlike AVTAK, Moore looked just fine in OP.
Roger looks a lot older in AVTAK because they have him wearing old man clothes. Instead of all the nice suit coats and tuxedos in OP, Roger is wearing a sensible, yet definately old mannish, spring jacket.
They should have just dressed him up in powder blue shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, black socks and sandals.
AVTAK has some good moments in it (every Bond film does) but Octopussy is the more enjoyable movie for me as well. As to reasons: Maud Adams, a much more spry and fit Roger Moore, Maud Adams, some great stuntwork, Maud Adams, a very memorable PTS, Maud Adams, Louis Jourdan makes for one classy villain, the girls are all beautiful from Maud Adams to Kristina Wayborn to Tina Hudson. Oh, and did I mention Maud Adams? I could have done without Moore donning the clown suit (and the Gorilla suit for that matter) but neither scene descended into slapstick as I feared it would.
Thats one thing I always admired, that scenes that could have been so silly (Bond in a clown suit) were played seriously. I really liked the German section of Octopussy, very well done.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
I'm sure if they would have had Pierce Brosnan doing that film instead, people would be giving it rave reviews
One thing I always get from Octopussy, and this thing happens every time, regardless of the viewings, is this unbreakable belief that Kamal Khan and right hand man Gobinda are ultimately going to triumph. I just can't shake it. Sorry. They have SO many advantages and it seems our Bond has none.
How many times does it look Bond is going to die, horribly, and terribly, while the cruel pair, cowardly watch from a safe vantage point.
When they find themselves airborne, fleeing with a handful of Prince Khan residuals, it strikes me. How did you two, ever end up like this, the extinct species get the better of you.
That's another reason why I love Octopussy and Sir Roger.
(and for the record, AVTAK also has it's moments. I was a little harsh in my earlier statement, as it brings good memories for me and my family)
AVTAK has some good moments in it (every Bond film does) but Octopussy is the more enjoyable movie for me as well. As to reasons: Maud Adams, a much more spry and fit Roger Moore, Maud Adams, some great stuntwork, Maud Adams, a very memorable PTS, Maud Adams, Louis Jourdan makes for one classy villain, the girls are all beautiful from Maud Adams to Kristina Wayborn to Tina Hudson. Oh, and did I mention Maud Adams? I could have done without Moore donning the clown suit (and the Gorilla suit for that matter) but neither scene descended into slapstick as I feared it would.
What do you think of Maud Adams Tony?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
I'm sure if they would have had Pierce Brosnan doing that film instead, people would be giving it rave reviews
I doubt it. For me, the reason why AVTAK was such a terrible film had less to do with an older Moore and more to do with the screenplay. I think it was a horrible screenplay; enormously messy, getting all its best ideas from GF and really unsufferable.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
As some of you have already stated, AVTAK does have it's moments....
The very cool title song....give me a minute...I'm thinking what else... uhh...no, that's about it. 8-)
OCTOPUSSY all the way!!! B-)
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
AVTAK has some good moments in it (every Bond film does) but Octopussy is the more enjoyable movie for me as well. As to reasons: Maud Adams, a much more spry and fit Roger Moore, Maud Adams, some great stuntwork, Maud Adams, a very memorable PTS, Maud Adams, Louis Jourdan makes for one classy villain, the girls are all beautiful from Maud Adams to Kristina Wayborn to Tina Hudson. Oh, and did I mention Maud Adams? I could have done without Moore donning the clown suit (and the Gorilla suit for that matter) but neither scene descended into slapstick as I feared it would.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
) ) ) Good one Alex. I'm sure Ms. Adams and I could have a nice little Odyssey or two.
Would Superman be playing on a screen in front of you? )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I will start off though by saying that Octopussy is good. Cool story, ok villains (but nothing special), good bond girl, nice locations, and generally an ejoyable outing.
But for me AVTAK is far better. I think the story is even stronger, and also the action is far more memorable. Max Zorin is one of the best Bond villains ever, as opposed to the (boring) Kamal Khan. Walken did a great job, and he was extremely memorable. The locations in AVTAK were also completely memorable, with landmarks such as the eifell tower, and the golden gate bridge. The mine was also a great location, with great action in it. The only thing in my opinion that lets AVTAK down is may day and stacey sutton. Mayday makes me cringe, and stacey sutton is just far too subordinate. But apart from that it's an excellent film, and I'd watch it over Octopussy anyday.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
Since this post, I re-watched both OP and AVTAK.
I can only echo my previous thoughts, and say that my opinion has not changed, and still think AVTAK is much better.
However, I really love OP, and it is right up there. It stands as my 3rd favourite Bond film ever. (Right behind AVTAK and LALD). It's really, really enjoyable, and the story is very strong.
As for AVTAK, the recent posts I have been reading about it, it still seems that it is considererd one of the worst ever. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it frustrates me that AVTAK is considered weak by most. (Not all obviously, but most).
There seems to be four main reasons why AVTAK is not liked by most...
Reason One - The Screenplay/Script:
Many people do not like the screenplay of AVTAK. I admit, the screenplay is nothing special. But at the same time, I don't see it as particulaly bad either. Every bond film has bad points anyway. The screenplay for most of the Brosnan films were no better IMO. (Especially DAD).
Reason Two - Roger's Age:
Another thing many do not like about AVTAK is Roger's age. I've already mentioned this, but I seriously don't think he looked that bad in it. Bond is not young anyway, in any of the films (Except OHMSS I guess). Connery in DAF looked quite old IMO. Connery in NSNA looked ancient, but NSNA is not a Bond film anyway. Not official = not a Bond film, as far as I'm concerned.
Reason Three - Tanya Roberts as Stacey Sutton:
The third main reason why so many slate AVTAK seems to be Tanya Roberts. Well I recently made a thread saying why she's not that bad.
Reason Four - The Plot:
Some people think it's a GF rip-off. I admit, there are many similarities. But TWINE also falls into this boat. Also, how about DAF and DAD? Diamonds, satelites in space etc. Then there's also YOLT, TSWLM, and MR, that have similar plots to each other. So what I'm getting at is, quite a few Bond films have similar plots, so why single out poor old AVTAK?
In conclusion, I love both OP and AVTAK, both being in my top three. But AVTAK is better IMO, and still stands as my favourite Bond film.
Am I the only one that ranks AVTAK as the best Bond film? Not even JFF has it at number one (he has it at number 2).
It's extremely close with LALD for me, which I rank as 2nd best ever. LALD would be the only competition with AVTAK in my opinion.
Edit - The California Girls bit in the teaser is another reason why AVTAK is slated. I admit, I am not a fan of this bit, but this tiny little fragment is not enough to ruin a perfectly good film IMO.
Reason Four - The Plot:
Some people think it's a GF rip-off. I admit, there are many similarities. But TWINE also falls into this boat. Also, how about DAF and DAD? Diamonds, satelites in space etc. Then there's also YOLT, TSWLM, and MR, that have similar plots to each other. So what I'm getting at is, quite a few Bond films have similar plots, so why single out poor old AVTAK?
I often refer to AVTAK as a GF rip-off. The truth is that I do so as IMO AVTAK is so terrible that, although many Bond films have similar plots to each other, it has few redeeming features that make up for its similarities to GF. I also think it has tremendous similarities to GF, which in my case makes it even worse since GF is my favourite Bond film.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I agree with Lazenby880 in that OP is the least bad. What is really annoying about OP is that it had the potential to be a really great Bond movie and failed mainly due to the adolesent humour which infected most of Roger Moore's films.
It had a realistic plot with General Orlov's motivations making perfect sense. The final fight on top of the plane was one of the best sequences in the series.
The locations were exotic and I know Bond movies never show the bad bits of the countries they are in, but India was portrayed like something out of Carry On Up The Kyber.
What could have been an exciting cold war triller was almost ruined by moments of out of place humour.
The acrojet sequence couldn't just have ended with Bond doing the victory role - no he has to land and ask a hillbilly to fill her up. Though what a hillbilly is doing in a south American country is anybodies guess.
The chase through the Indian streets is excrutiating. Is India meant to be so backward that Gobinda and his men are armed with blunderbuses and knives rather than semi-automatic weapons.
The tarzan yell is the pits. Is Bond so badly trained in escape and evasion that he thinks it is a good idea to let his enemies know exactly where he is.
The attack on the Monsoon Palace by Octupussy's girls looks like the end of a Disney movie where the children attack the baddies. Not exactly on a par with the fight in the Volcano in YOLT or the super tanker in TSWLM.
For all these critisms I still like OP. I just wish it had been made as a serious Bond thriller rather than a Roger Moore comedy.
AVTAK on the other hand is one of the worst Bond movies ever made. Where do you start with the problems:
Roger Moore is far to old. He looks like he had been embalmed.
Tanya Roberts is a crap Bond girl. She looked like she had an IQ lower than her cat. I would have left her in the elevator.
May Day was a great villianess, but toally wasted by her conversion to the side of the angels. If the actor playing Bond had not looked like he had been let out of the retirement home for the day there could have been a great fight between MD and JB.
The excellent open sequence ruined by the Beach Boys music.
The plot - a poor rethread of GF.
The fire engine chase sequence - boring and uninvestive. One phone call would have got Bond out of prision so why wreck half of San Francisco other than to set up yet another motor vehicle chase.
Is Bond now so well known that even American police officers know he is a British secret agent.
The fight in Stacy's house. No one is ever in any actual danger and Roger Moore's stunt double should have got equal credit on the posters.
This is why Timothy Dalton was such a breath of fresh air with TLD.
Comments
Octopussy 14
A View To A Kill 6
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I will start off though by saying that Octopussy is good. Cool story, ok villains (but nothing special), good bond girl, nice locations, and generally an ejoyable outing.
But for me AVTAK is far better. I think the story is even stronger, and also the action is far more memorable. Max Zorin is one of the best Bond villains ever, as opposed to the (boring) Kamal Khan. Walken did a great job, and he was extremely memorable. The locations in AVTAK were also completely memorable, with landmarks such as the eifell tower, and the golden gate bridge. The mine was also a great location, with great action in it. The only thing in my opinion that lets AVTAK down is may day and stacey sutton. Mayday makes me cringe, and stacey sutton is just far too subordinate. But apart from that it's an excellent film, and I'd watch it over Octopussy anyday.
And one more thing, Roger's age - if people are gonna slate AVTAK for Roger's age, then you may aswell also do so for Octopussy - Roger is more or less the same in these two films IMO.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
I'll drink to that {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Hogwash!
Nothing like a little hogwash to wash down that tripe from 2006. Right Loeffs?
-Roger Moore
Well...okay...having had the hogwash (OP and AVTAK), the tripe did taste quite a bit better B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Roger looks a lot older in AVTAK because they have him wearing old man clothes. Instead of all the nice suit coats and tuxedos in OP, Roger is wearing a sensible, yet definately old mannish, spring jacket.
They should have just dressed him up in powder blue shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, black socks and sandals.
I'm sure if they would have had Pierce Brosnan doing that film instead, people would be giving it rave reviews
How many times does it look Bond is going to die, horribly, and terribly, while the cruel pair, cowardly watch from a safe vantage point.
When they find themselves airborne, fleeing with a handful of Prince Khan residuals, it strikes me. How did you two, ever end up like this, the extinct species get the better of you.
That's another reason why I love Octopussy and Sir Roger.
(and for the record, AVTAK also has it's moments. I was a little harsh in my earlier statement, as it brings good memories for me and my family)
The very cool title song....give me a minute...I'm thinking what else... uhh...no, that's about it. 8-)
OCTOPUSSY all the way!!! B-)
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I dont think he likes her
What would give you that idea?
Would Superman be playing on a screen in front of you?
Since this post, I re-watched both OP and AVTAK.
I can only echo my previous thoughts, and say that my opinion has not changed, and still think AVTAK is much better.
However, I really love OP, and it is right up there. It stands as my 3rd favourite Bond film ever. (Right behind AVTAK and LALD). It's really, really enjoyable, and the story is very strong.
As for AVTAK, the recent posts I have been reading about it, it still seems that it is considererd one of the worst ever. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it frustrates me that AVTAK is considered weak by most. (Not all obviously, but most).
There seems to be four main reasons why AVTAK is not liked by most...
Reason One - The Screenplay/Script:
Many people do not like the screenplay of AVTAK. I admit, the screenplay is nothing special. But at the same time, I don't see it as particulaly bad either. Every bond film has bad points anyway. The screenplay for most of the Brosnan films were no better IMO. (Especially DAD).
Reason Two - Roger's Age:
Another thing many do not like about AVTAK is Roger's age. I've already mentioned this, but I seriously don't think he looked that bad in it. Bond is not young anyway, in any of the films (Except OHMSS I guess). Connery in DAF looked quite old IMO. Connery in NSNA looked ancient, but NSNA is not a Bond film anyway. Not official = not a Bond film, as far as I'm concerned.
Reason Three - Tanya Roberts as Stacey Sutton:
The third main reason why so many slate AVTAK seems to be Tanya Roberts. Well I recently made a thread saying why she's not that bad.
Reason Four - The Plot:
Some people think it's a GF rip-off. I admit, there are many similarities. But TWINE also falls into this boat. Also, how about DAF and DAD? Diamonds, satelites in space etc. Then there's also YOLT, TSWLM, and MR, that have similar plots to each other. So what I'm getting at is, quite a few Bond films have similar plots, so why single out poor old AVTAK?
In conclusion, I love both OP and AVTAK, both being in my top three. But AVTAK is better IMO, and still stands as my favourite Bond film.
Am I the only one that ranks AVTAK as the best Bond film? Not even JFF has it at number one (he has it at number 2).
It's extremely close with LALD for me, which I rank as 2nd best ever. LALD would be the only competition with AVTAK in my opinion.
Edit - The California Girls bit in the teaser is another reason why AVTAK is slated. I admit, I am not a fan of this bit, but this tiny little fragment is not enough to ruin a perfectly good film IMO.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
It had a realistic plot with General Orlov's motivations making perfect sense. The final fight on top of the plane was one of the best sequences in the series.
The locations were exotic and I know Bond movies never show the bad bits of the countries they are in, but India was portrayed like something out of Carry On Up The Kyber.
What could have been an exciting cold war triller was almost ruined by moments of out of place humour.
The acrojet sequence couldn't just have ended with Bond doing the victory role - no he has to land and ask a hillbilly to fill her up. Though what a hillbilly is doing in a south American country is anybodies guess.
The chase through the Indian streets is excrutiating. Is India meant to be so backward that Gobinda and his men are armed with blunderbuses and knives rather than semi-automatic weapons.
The tarzan yell is the pits. Is Bond so badly trained in escape and evasion that he thinks it is a good idea to let his enemies know exactly where he is.
The attack on the Monsoon Palace by Octupussy's girls looks like the end of a Disney movie where the children attack the baddies. Not exactly on a par with the fight in the Volcano in YOLT or the super tanker in TSWLM.
For all these critisms I still like OP. I just wish it had been made as a serious Bond thriller rather than a Roger Moore comedy.
AVTAK on the other hand is one of the worst Bond movies ever made. Where do you start with the problems:
Roger Moore is far to old. He looks like he had been embalmed.
Tanya Roberts is a crap Bond girl. She looked like she had an IQ lower than her cat. I would have left her in the elevator.
May Day was a great villianess, but toally wasted by her conversion to the side of the angels. If the actor playing Bond had not looked like he had been let out of the retirement home for the day there could have been a great fight between MD and JB.
The excellent open sequence ruined by the Beach Boys music.
The plot - a poor rethread of GF.
The fire engine chase sequence - boring and uninvestive. One phone call would have got Bond out of prision so why wreck half of San Francisco other than to set up yet another motor vehicle chase.
Is Bond now so well known that even American police officers know he is a British secret agent.
The fight in Stacy's house. No one is ever in any actual danger and Roger Moore's stunt double should have got equal credit on the posters.
This is why Timothy Dalton was such a breath of fresh air with TLD.