Interesting comments. Don't get the expectation that Bond 22 will repeat what CR did--other than to tell a good Bond story. Which IMHO is the biggest difference between CR and LTK.
I would expect Bond 22 to take that last scene with dapper Craig fully Bonded as the jump point, and give us a more standard Bond story/film with occasional nods to CR's "tone," although the biggest difference for me DAD-to-CR was the lack of bad puny humor and the addition of a tough-as-nails Bond (really hope they stick with both changes {:) ). A carbon copy Bond 22 of CR would surprise me, but EON has surprised me in the past...:o :007)
I noticed how much the humour had gone when i rewatched it the other night. The scene where Bond wins the game and suggests celebrating, vesper says "but you were almost dead an hour ago" I so expected Bond to say "time to stop living in the past." Im so glad he didnt.
Hey, here's a thought: a good old Bond film for Bond 22, but with a script as strong as CR's. Wouldn't that be a treat? C'mon Babs, do that voodoo you do so well. :v
I was very disappointed that CR had very little humour. Yes, I was relieved that it didn't have any terrible puns like the 'that's a name to die for' (or whatever it was) in DAD, but I would have loved some lines similar to the dialogue in the PTS to TWINE or even the 'I thought christmas comes only once a year' line at the end of the film. I really do wish that humour returns in Bond 22.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
And that was a terrible line in TWINE about Christmas, in the running for worst in the series ever.
I'm probably the only person on this site who loved that line, but I really thought it was among the greatest lines in the history of the series and among the very finest closing lines. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
The "Christmas comes" line is as stale as month-old bread. I can't count the number of off-color Christmas cards I've seen with such captions as "Santa's coming" and the like. In contrast, I thought the humor in CR was refreshing and welcome--sort of like it was in the earliest films. The moment when Bond masquerades as a valet is a scream, and I enjoy his smart-alecky fooling with Vesper (remember the "Stephanie Broadchest" line). Plus, the humor came naturally--it was never forced into the film because it's what we expect.
Vox clamantis in deserto
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
I'm with Dan in that I like the Christmas line, however, I also like the humor in CR.
What I wish would happen and what I think will happen are two different things. Although I'm a lover of CR and expect to love Bond 22 as well, my prediction (with what little information we have at the moment) is that Bond 22 will not do as well as CR. I agree with the point that the Craig novelty factor was huge, and to that I would add that a 4-year layoff was also a factor. Finally, DAD was such crap that I wonder if people weren't extra curious to see what the inevitable 180-degree turn would be. (Obviously that last point reflects my own bias, because DAD did huge box office as well.)
I think the novelty factor was good for opening weekend--after that it was all Craig. $600 mil tells me audiences will be back. Bond 22 may do a bit better than CR, it may do a bit worse, but in the neighborhood of is a reasonable expectation IMO.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
To me, the biggest novelty in CR was the way in which the spirit and intent of Fleming's debut 007 novel was preserved. It was a most welcome change...and it certainly didn't hurt that Craig gave us a tougher, hard-edged Bond which hearkens back to the days when Mr. Fleming retired to Jamaica once a year to crank out a new yarn.
I don't think novelty alone would have driven the kind of numbers CR put up. The age of the franchise is relevant only to the extent that it provides a ready-made audience each time a new series entry is produced, but what matters---IMRO---is repeat viewings.
If they stick to their guns, infuse #22 with the same thematic and tonal coherence as CR, the next movie will indeed be a referendum on Craigger and the New Direction. If it's another success of similar magnitude (say, within $50 million or so of CR's take), hopefully the Craig-Bond Death Watch will abate somewhat {:)
As someone has already pointed out, tastes will always evolve. I'm just personally grateful that a more 'Fleming' Bond is the taste of the moment, and I hope it lasts for a few more pictures before the pendulum swings back the other way.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
What's going on Loeff? How come you're hiding your identity?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
What's going on Loeff? How come you're hiding your identity?
Well, I decided to 'go dark' for a few days, while I made up my mind about coming back to the site.
Turns out I just can't quit; I'm addicted! :007)
EDIT: I've switched it back {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Craig WAS the novelty...and uhm, I think 45 years of Bond movies had a little something to do with the numbers. Once again I think you're giving him too much credit. But I think 22 will be the real referendum on Craig and it may well cement that popularity you're talking about.
Agree that Craig was the novelty--opening weekend. But novelty wears off, whereas CR had very long and deep-pocketed legs. CR too was such a departure from recent Bond films, IMHO it succeeded more on its own merits (contrast DAD, which was all about milking 40+ years of Bond history), and the most stand-out merit was Craig IMO. As many in here say, CR wasn't a "real" Bond film; if not, what drove the box office? While I think Craig makes a great Bond (and would think that even if CR made only $100 mil world-wide), that it did as well as it did, and was so strikingly different from what came before, tells me audiences responded to what EON shoved out there as Bond--and that's Craig, first and foremost (agree with Loeff that the more Flemingesque tone is welcome too, but past box office has shown general audiences don't always care for that the way some fans do...again, what seemingly sticks out above all else in this equation is Craig).
I think Loeff is correct, that if Bond 22 plays around with the CR tone-thing a bit but still manages (somehow, against all odds) to be as good a spy/action/Bond (or near to) as CR in general, the box office will repeat, give or take. I may be wrong, but I think EON hit on a winning and audience-pleasing "new" formula with CR and Craig, and if there's one thing EON knows how to do it's repeat a formula, lol. Guess we'll see, and I'm really curious how the whole continuation thing plays out...to Spectre or not to Spectre, that is the question. :007)
There's also the matter of Craig being quite hot right now, casting-wise, doubt Hollywood is considering him a novelty with his collection of high-profile signings growing...
Comments
I would expect Bond 22 to take that last scene with dapper Craig fully Bonded as the jump point, and give us a more standard Bond story/film with occasional nods to CR's "tone," although the biggest difference for me DAD-to-CR was the lack of bad puny humor and the addition of a tough-as-nails Bond (really hope they stick with both changes {:) ). A carbon copy Bond 22 of CR would surprise me, but EON has surprised me in the past...:o :007)
Hey, here's a thought: a good old Bond film for Bond 22, but with a script as strong as CR's. Wouldn't that be a treat? C'mon Babs, do that voodoo you do so well. :v
I'm probably the only person on this site who loved that line, but I really thought it was among the greatest lines in the history of the series and among the very finest closing lines.
I don't think novelty alone would have driven the kind of numbers CR put up. The age of the franchise is relevant only to the extent that it provides a ready-made audience each time a new series entry is produced, but what matters---IMRO---is repeat viewings.
If they stick to their guns, infuse #22 with the same thematic and tonal coherence as CR, the next movie will indeed be a referendum on Craigger and the New Direction. If it's another success of similar magnitude (say, within $50 million or so of CR's take), hopefully the Craig-Bond Death Watch will abate somewhat {:)
As someone has already pointed out, tastes will always evolve. I'm just personally grateful that a more 'Fleming' Bond is the taste of the moment, and I hope it lasts for a few more pictures before the pendulum swings back the other way.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
What's going on Loeff? How come you're hiding your identity?
Well, I decided to 'go dark' for a few days, while I made up my mind about coming back to the site.
Turns out I just can't quit; I'm addicted! :007)
EDIT: I've switched it back {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Agree that Craig was the novelty--opening weekend. But novelty wears off, whereas CR had very long and deep-pocketed legs. CR too was such a departure from recent Bond films, IMHO it succeeded more on its own merits (contrast DAD, which was all about milking 40+ years of Bond history), and the most stand-out merit was Craig IMO. As many in here say, CR wasn't a "real" Bond film; if not, what drove the box office? While I think Craig makes a great Bond (and would think that even if CR made only $100 mil world-wide), that it did as well as it did, and was so strikingly different from what came before, tells me audiences responded to what EON shoved out there as Bond--and that's Craig, first and foremost (agree with Loeff that the more Flemingesque tone is welcome too, but past box office has shown general audiences don't always care for that the way some fans do...again, what seemingly sticks out above all else in this equation is Craig).
I think Loeff is correct, that if Bond 22 plays around with the CR tone-thing a bit but still manages (somehow, against all odds) to be as good a spy/action/Bond (or near to) as CR in general, the box office will repeat, give or take. I may be wrong, but I think EON hit on a winning and audience-pleasing "new" formula with CR and Craig, and if there's one thing EON knows how to do it's repeat a formula, lol. Guess we'll see, and I'm really curious how the whole continuation thing plays out...to Spectre or not to Spectre, that is the question. :007)
There's also the matter of Craig being quite hot right now, casting-wise, doubt Hollywood is considering him a novelty with his collection of high-profile signings growing...