Mujahadin and Opium - Not so annoying drums

JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
edited October 2007 in James Bond Music
Does anyone find the drums in the latter half of Mujahadin and Opium a little annoying? The melody and track itself is beautiful, but why did Barry (kind of) ruin "Opium" by putting those annoying drums in? It just seems that they could have been used in a better way because as they are, they seem so sporadic! Thoughts, opinions?

Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,344Chief of Staff
    I'll have a listen to it again in the morning and let you know :).
  • Tee HeeTee Hee CBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
    Does anyone find the drums in the latter half of Mujahadin and Opium a little annoying? The melody and track itself is beautiful, but why did Barry (kind of) ruin "Opium" by putting those annoying drums in? It just seems that they could have been used in a better way because as they are, they seem so sporadic! Thoughts, opinions?

    JFF, how dare you question the musical integrity of our Bond music messiah John Barry! :o ;)

    The drums you refer to in "Mujahadin and Opium" are, to me, slightly reminiscent of "Death of Fiona."

    I believe the tribal-like drums, considered “annoying” to you, perfectly complement the desert-like, Middle East setting.
    "My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

    -Roger Moore
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,344Chief of Staff
    First of all, I agree that you're absolutely right in that this is a beautiful piece of music. The track on the album is, as is common with soundtracks, made up from shorter pieces in the movie itself.

    The haunting first part of the track covers Bond and Kara joining Kamran's men and riding on horseback from the air base to the camp. It's full of sweeping strings and lasts till the 1 minute 20 seconds mark.

    The second part, the next 36 seconds, represents the Mujahadin* (with Bond and Kara) riding off to meet the Russians for their drugs/diamonds deal. It begins in a very similar way to the first cue and ends with the introduction of the drums.

    The third part "Opium" is heard during the deal itself with the drums providing drama and local feel. It should be noted that the drumming can barely be heard in the movie itself, the music having to compete with various sound effects and dialogue.

    It's common enough in the Bond music sphere to use ethnic percussion to underline and accent the location- cf "James Bond With Bongos" from FRWL for an early example of Barry using this technique. The drums are on the track for this purpose, leaving the question of whether they "spoil" the track or not a subjective one. IMO they don't.

    One of the main artistic challenges of writing a movie score is to provide music which not only works within the context of the film itself but can stand alone as an enjoyable composition without the accompanying visuals. John Barry is a recognised master at this, but sometimes compromises have to be made.

    * using the spelling on the album cover.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    edited October 2007
    Does anyone find the drums in the latter half of Mujahadin and Opium a little annoying? The melody and track itself is beautiful, but why did Barry (kind of) ruin "Opium" by putting those annoying drums in? It just seems that they could have been used in a better way because as they are, they seem so sporadic! Thoughts, opinions?

    You might have a feeling like that because in many cases, ethnic percussion is recorded separately. This is usually because a specialist has to be flown in to the studio (often from the different part of the world) to provide his talents. Sometimes it's recorded months before or after the actual recording sessions. The album mix for "Mujahadin and Opium" is in deed a bit more dominant than in the movie, which for some can be disturbing. The score to TLD hides the rest of the mystery if your bothered in small bits of musical trivia.
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    The Cat wrote:
    You might have a feeling like that because in many cases, ethnic percussion is recorded separately. This is usually because a specialist has to be flown in to the studio (often from the different part of the world) to provide his talents. Sometimes it's recorded months before or after the actual recording sessions. The album mix for "Mujahadin and Opium" is in deed a bit more dominant than in the movie, which for some can be disturbing. The score to TLD hides the rest of the mystery if your bothered in small bits of musical trivia.
    The stuff you know! {[]
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Perhaps I overreacted. I don't hate them per se, but like Cat said, they are a bit too dominant for my liking. Also, it just seems that the rhythm is off to me. Tee Hee, I love Barry's work, don't say that I don't, and I think that the similar drums (that also reminded me of Death of Fiona) were used perfectly in that situation.

    Certainly they complement the setting, but I think they could've been used in a better manner and not be so overbearing. Barry's orchestra should've been the full driving force of that bit and the drums be the hinting toward the setting instead of vice versa.

    I'm not saying that I hate the track completely, it's just I'm listening to one of the most beautiful tunes of the James Bond scores only to hear these overbearing, sporadic drums toward the tail end of it. Granted, they're not terrible per se, but if they were mixed down and not as all-over-the-place in concerns to rhythm I wouldn't mind as much.

    And Cat, that is very interesting, and it makes a lot of sense! It explains a lot about the movie tracks where the percussive/ethnic instruments can seem overbearing. Thanks for the tidbit!

    Oh and don't you worry, in regards to the elimination game, I'm too tired right now to let the wrath shine through but believe me tomorrow... it will. ;)
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    edited October 2007
    Barbel wrote:
    First of all, I agree that you're absolutely right in that this is a beautiful piece of music. The track on the album is, as is common with soundtracks, made up from shorter pieces in the movie itself.

    The haunting first part of the track covers Bond and Kara joining Kamran's men and riding on horseback from the air base to the camp. It's full of sweeping strings and lasts till the 1 minute 20 seconds mark.

    The second part, the next 36 seconds, represents the Mujahadin* (with Bond and Kara) riding off to meet the Russians for their drugs/diamonds deal. It begins in a very similar way to the first cue and ends with the introduction of the drums.

    The third part "Opium" is heard during the deal itself with the drums providing drama and local feel. It should be noted that the drumming can barely be heard in the movie itself, the music having to compete with various sound effects and dialogue.

    It's common enough in the Bond music sphere to use ethnic percussion to underline and accent the location- cf "James Bond With Bongos" from FRWL for an early example of Barry using this technique. The drums are on the track for this purpose, leaving the question of whether they "spoil" the track or not a subjective one. IMO they don't.

    One of the main artistic challenges of writing a movie score is to provide music which not only works within the context of the film itself but can stand alone as an enjoyable composition without the accompanying visuals. John Barry is a recognised master at this, but sometimes compromises have to be made.

    * using the spelling on the album cover.

    Is Mujahadin actually spelled in a different way? I know the Bond albums haven't always been accurate with spelling (Rumor is the casino muzak track "Try" from OHMSS was meant to be called "Tracy").

    I love the first and second parts of the song (obviously) as the second part really puts power into it and shows that they're heading toward danger, yet the tune maintains its elegance and beauty.

    I haven't seen TLD in awhile, and don't own it as of yet, but next time if I either buy it or catch it on TV, I'll definitely listen to the drum part. Many times in movies, like you said, they mix those elements down in order to hear what's obviously the key aspect of film, the dialogue.

    You're right, such as the obligatory "Welcome to..." tracks or whatever the track is named to introduce a new location usually is filled with instrumentation of that area like David Arnold's "Welcome to Cuba" or Bill Conti's "Gonzales Takes A Dive". James Bond with Bongos definitely does highlight the Middle Eastern/Turkish setting of FRWL. I also realize the purpose of the drums was to add flavor and local color to the scene, which would be great. My whole problem was I didn't like how it was implemented.

    John Barry is definitely one of the most adaptable film composers ever, probably only second to Jerry Goldsmith. Barry, like you said, is famous for having film music that can be enjoyed outside the film, and for the most part, it is, unless it's nothing but background music (and even that is good, like most of his DAF stuff "Circus, Circus" and "Q's Trick" are wonderful tracks).

    And I realize that this is one of the weird moments where I disagreed with Barry's decisions on music, though I'm hardly qualified to judge his accomplishments (also, I think Serra's GE is one of the best Bond scores ever, so what do I know? ;) ).

    Thank you Barbel for this post! It seems like you put a lot of time and effort into analyzing this beautiful track for me! :D
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    Is Mujahadin actually spelled in a different way? I know the Bond albums haven't always been accurate with spelling (Rumor is the casino muzak track "Try" from OHMSS was meant to be called "Tracy").

    That's not rumour - that's just misinformation. Mujahadin is special because its one of the several typos affecting the disc. The name of these people is actually Mujaheddin. Also see "Afganistan Plan" - the country should be spelled Afghanistan.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,344Chief of Staff
    Thank you Barbel for this post! It seems like you put a lot of time and effort into analyzing this beautiful track for me! :D

    No problem, JFF, listening to JB isn't a chore!
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Thank you Barbel for this post! It seems like you put a lot of time and effort into analyzing this beautiful track for me! :D

    No problem, JFF, listening to JB isn't a chore!

    Indeed, I have a similar philosophy about Serra. ;)
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    As anyone who notices, I've changed the title! This morning on my iPod, the shuffle went to "Mujahadin and Opium" and on a more careful listen, the drums didn't seem as overbearing or sporadic. They just seem a little different because of how they're mix. Therefore I retract my statement and maybe now we can discuss the merits of the tune! I still think the first half is better but the second half is still good. :D
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,344Chief of Staff
    As anyone who notices, I've changed the title! This morning on my iPod, the shuffle went to "Mujahadin and Opium" and on a more careful listen, the drums didn't seem as overbearing or sporadic. They just seem a little different because of how they're mix. Therefore I retract my statement and maybe now we can discuss the merits of the tune! I still think the first half is better but the second half is still good. :D

    JFF, you're one of a kind. :D

    "M & O" is an atmospheric tune, and I second you that the first part is the best. TLD has other excellent melodies (eg "If There Was A Man", particularly in the instrumental versions) and it sent Barry out on a high note- pun intended- especially with his doing a cameo. At the time we didn't know it was his last, of course, and for a good few years I harboured the hope he'd return. Ah well...
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Indeed, "Into Vienna" is one of my favorite tracks from the TLD soundtrack. Both of the Pretenders tunes, IMO, were much better than a-Ha's original track and Where Has Everybody Gone? had a better action sound, it was much more hard and merciless, whereas the TLD theme was used for more of the lighthearted action scenes.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    I love the TLD score, majorly. I think I like the Alternate End titles alot - very classical style fitting a classic movie.
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