I'm not keen on Quantum of Solace either. It sounds like a crap sci-fi novel.
{[]
Finally -- someone has said out loud what I've been thinking. That emboldens me to say that Property of a Lady sounds like a Henry James novel to me. It's OK for ol' Hank, but a Bond story? Yuck ...
That emboldens me to say that Property of a Lady sounds like a Henry James novel to me. It's OK for ol' Hank, but a Bond story? Yuck ...
Therein lies the beauty of the title. It is an elegant title that does not suggest violence at all, yet it may be the title of a James Bond film. I think the contrast is magnificent.
In fact, I would say that it is not all that different to Diamonds Are Forever or The Spy Who Loved Me; two other titles which IMO suggested non-violent beauty, while the films themselves were violent and extremely ruthless.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
but frankly, The Property Of A Lady would probably be one of my least favourite options.
How come? Do you feel the same way as HH?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Since we're putting our cards on the table, I think all three "rumored" Fleming titles, Risico, Property of a Lady, and Quantum of Solace are terrible. Risico--Italian for Risk--yawn. POAL, QOS--might work for an arty adaptation of Somerset Maugham or, as Highhopes says, Henry James--but can anyone imagine someone saying, "Let's go to the new kick-butt James Bond film, Property of a Lady?" "The best action/adventure film of the year is Quantum of Solace!" A title with spark and frisson is needed, and those three suggestions have neither.
Since we're putting our cards on the table, I think all three "rumored" Fleming titles, Risico, Property of a Lady, and Quantum of Solace are terrible. Risico--Italian for Risk--yawn. POAL, QOS--might work for an arty adaptation of Somerset Maugham or, as Highhopes says, Henry James--but can anyone imagine someone saying, "Let's go to the new kick-butt James Bond film, Property of a Lady?" "The best action/adventure film of the year is Quantum of Solace!" A title with spark and frisson is needed, and those three suggestions have neither.
I'm right with you, Hardy. I've never particularly cared for these titles as films. Short stories, books, fine - but as you say, it's not exactly a headline grabber for an espionage film to get bums on seats.
Sort of reminds me of the two RN aircraft carriers currently in design, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales... I mean, who's going to run away from them??
As you say, something more electric. As long as it doesn't have die or gold in it, though
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
but frankly, The Property Of A Lady would probably be one of my least favourite options.
How come? Do you feel the same way as HH?
I don't know; maybe. It sounds a bit too much like a period romance piece to me...like a Merchant/Ivory picture, or a Sidney Sheldon novel.
I can understand everyone's reaction to QOS as well; that's certainly a fair cop...I think Risico is okay, but the fact that it rhymes with Casino makes it problematic as a follow-up to CR (don't ask me why; it just wouldn't look right on my DVD shelf right next to it...not logical, but there we are ;% ).
I really like Magic 44...it could be anything: the name of an intelligence operation, the type of heroin supposedly flooding into the UK, a villain's code name, a secret file...something scribbled on a scrap of paper crumpled in a dead man's hand :v
Shatterhand---or, The Death Collector---remain perennial favourites as potential titles...but if I were Eon, I'd go with Magic 44 B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Since we're putting our cards on the table, I think all three "rumored" Fleming titles, Risico, Property of a Lady, and Quantum of Solace are terrible. Risico--Italian for Risk--yawn. POAL, QOS--might work for an arty adaptation of Somerset Maugham or, as Highhopes says, Henry James--but can anyone imagine someone saying, "Let's go to the new kick-butt James Bond film, Property of a Lady?" "The best action/adventure film of the year is Quantum of Solace!" A title with spark and frisson is needed, and those three suggestions have neither.
Yes, I agree with all that. They're pretty much just the bargain basement Fleming titles; it's telling that The World Is Not Enough (just a motto from one of his books) was used over that lot. If someone can come up with a corker like Devil May Care, then I reckon there's no need to use Quantum etc.
I'm starting to be swayed away from Fleming titles for the sake of Fleming titles...just because EON has used dreck like TSWLM in the past doesn't mean they have to continue in that vein. And agree, "Devil May Care" is the best non-Fleming Fleming title ever, wish they'd come up with something as clever as that one one for Bond 22. Maybe call that guy up, see if he has any other ideas? :v
Another problem with Propery of a Lady, Quantum of Solaceand Risico is that it doesn't make any sense to me -- and therefore complete sense to my old pal, Dansame -- to pick a title that has absolutely no relationship to the story. It's like shoehorning in the Moneypenny and Q scenes. I suppose one could argue that a number of Fleming titles have no direct bearing on the story: Live and Let Die, for instance. But at least those titles had a noirish, pulp-fiction quality that is fitting for Bond. Property of a Ladyand Quantum of Solace sound inappropriately highbrow, as Hardy I think suggests. As for Risico: En Ingles, Por Favor. My Spanish is pretty limited. When I first heard the title, I thought to myself "Why would they name a Bond film after a rice dish?" )
As for Risico: En Ingles, Por Favor. My Spanish is pretty limited. When I first heard the title, I thought to myself "Why would they name a Bond film after a rice dish?" )
) ) )
On the plus side, though, our esteemed host could rechristen himself...RiSiCo. B-)
Seriously, I agree with the crowd that suggests these Fleming titles seem ill-suited to a film these days. And to extend someone's earlier point, using a Fleming title solely because it is a Fleming title is lame pandering of the worst kind.
I don't think using a title by Ian Fleming is "pandering" - especially considering the way his work has been hacked up in years past.
There are lots of alternatives, especially if one uses Chapter Titles from the various novels. I thought "A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate" would have made a splendid title song for Casino Royale.
While "Whisper" is prehaps too ponderous for a Movie Title, here are some possible titles gleaned from some chapters in Fleming's Bond novels.
"Moment of Truth", "Take it From Here", "Death is so Permanent", "The Moguls of Death", "The Finger on the Trigger", "Killing Ground", "Happenstance", "Enemy Action", "All to Play For", "The Shadower", "Take it Easy, Mr. Bond", "Fork Left for Hell", "Hell's Delight"
Not a Chapter Title, but I like, "The Killing Bottle."
That reminds me of the story behind why the Graham Greene early 1980s film with Michael Caine and Richard Gere was changed from The Honorary Consul to Beyond The Limit.
According to Caine, the Americans would only have understood one word of the three.
That reminds me of the story behind why the Graham Greene early 1980s film with Michael Caine and Richard Gere was changed from The Honorary Consul to Beyond The Limit.
According to Caine, the Americans would only have understood one word of the three.
(No offense to our friends across the pond!)
None taken, Nape, especially since -- unlike the erudite Mr. Caine -- we had the good sense to steer clear of that piece of s***.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
That reminds me of the story behind why the Graham Greene early 1980s film with Michael Caine and Richard Gere was changed from The Honorary Consul to Beyond The Limit.
According to Caine, the Americans would only have understood one word of the three.
(No offense to our friends across the pond!)
None taken, Nape, especially since -- unlike the erudite Mr. Caine -- we had the good sense to steer clear of that piece of s***.
) {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
batester2005Dudley, West Mids, UKPosts: 155MI6 Agent
'property of a lady' makes sense cos the film is likely to involve something to do with Vesper Lynd. 'Quantam of Solace' is a crap name for a bond film and Risico just doesnt make sense to me.
Another problem with Propery of a Lady, Quantum of Solaceand Risico is that it doesn't make any sense to me -- and therefore complete sense to my old pal, Dansame -- to pick a title that has absolutely no relationship to the story. It's like shoehorning in the Moneypenny and Q scenes. I suppose one could argue that a number of Fleming titles have no direct bearing on the story: Live and Let Die, for instance. But at least those titles had a noirish, pulp-fiction quality that is fitting for Bond. Property of a Ladyand Quantum of Solace sound inappropriately highbrow, as Hardy I think suggests.
I think that the above is an excellent summary of the situation, HH.:)
Assuming that the arc of Craig's Bond tenure continues to be one of an agent becoming a "00" and losing some of his more emotional aspects in order to become so, what about:-
"Embracing the risk"
Or indeed, losing some of the possibilty of a long term relationship (of any sort)seems to be quite key to Bond's development so perhaps:-
"His Intimacy is dangerous" or "Burnt for intimacy"
ALso what about the impression that this current Bond and his arc is about his gradual loss of hubris and replacement with a more evaluated persona, so something like:-
"Pride before a fall"
Perhaps a title like this might, just might also have that pulp-noirish quality that Fleming so ably articulated without sounding like an Ellmore Leonard novel
Assuming that the arc of Craig's Bond tenure continues to be one of an agent becoming a "00" and losing some of his more emotional aspects in order to become so, what about:-
"Embracing the risk"
Or indeed, losing some of the possibilty of a long term relationship (of any sort)seems to be quite key to Bond's development so perhaps:-
"His Intimacy is dangerous" or "Burnt for intimacy"
ALso what about the impression that this current Bond and his arc is about his gradual loss of hubris and replacement with a more evaluated persona, so something like:-
"Pride before a fall"
Perhaps a title like this might, just might also have that pulp-noirish quality that Fleming so ably articulated without sounding like an Ellmore Leonard novel
I think those are fine ideas. I've always thought that a title that somehow incorporates the the Blackjack expression "double down" (the act of doubling your original bet after you get your first two cards) might work under the right circumstances, but don't ask me how. There's a kind of symmetry with double-O
But I think it's really tough to come up with something without knowing the story line. Let's hope that when the title is revealed, it's one that causes us all to say "Of course -- that's perfect." In the right context, even one that is "more of a number" as Craig hinted, might be perfect.
I've always though the title of a movie to be a major influence in its popularity. A good title can MAKE a movie I think. Property of a Lady sounds too Merchant-Ivory for my taste (don't get the wrong idea, I'm an MI junkie). I'd think the toughest part of this thing would be an awesome title. I liked "Goldeneye" and "Tomorrow Never Dies" but "Die Another Day" I thought seemed slightly derivative. But I'm hard pressed to think of a title that just out and out sucks.
Prefer the DN chapter title, "The Killing Ground."
I like that! Maybe it could be shortened to "Killing Ground" ..... Not bad, unless they test it in the USA and find people think it's an AL Gore film about Global Warming!
'Property of a Lady' if associated with the right story plot could make a good title. 97's Tomorrow Never Dies(Original title 'Tomorrow never Lies' was more clever and Flemingesque)with tha change over of Hong Kong from U.K. Rule to China is a perfect example,for up until the day of the exchange Hong Kong was the property of a lady(Her Majesty the Queen). Since the timeing and political viability for using Hong Kong has long past it would just mean another subject would have to be chosen. All you need is a British territory or something important, a British satalite, a rocket(Moonraker could be used as basis for story)anything that represents the U.K. from a global point of view could work. When it comes to titles foe Fleming it was a matter of how they sounded on their own and how they worked for the story. Take 'Trigger Finger'for example(The working title for Fleming's short 'The Living Daylights'),it is a more practical title for the actual story but TLD has much more flare and mystery and Property has that Flemingesque touch(Tongue-in-cheek, sexapeal, mystery these are Ian's touch tones). This is why when I heard the title for Sebastian Faulk's 'Devil May Care' I was disapointed for an obvious title 'Devil May Dare' jumped out to me. M - "He not a man to be trifled with 007. Remember, in our world an attitude of Devil May Care will only get you killed." BOND - "Yes, but for the enemy it's what the Devil May Dare that make's the man."
Fleming has left behind more unused & alternate titles than the ones quoted. There's 'The Rough With The Smooth', 'Out Of The Clear Sky', 'Too Hot To Handle'(Used for 1st U.S. paperback release of Casino Royale), 'Fabulous Pay-off', Monday's Are Hell', Rough Justice', 'Hell is Here', 'Death Leaves An Echo'(My Favorite), 'The Bell's Of Hell', 'My Enemy's Enemy'(Early title for short story or book after TMWTGG), 'Trigger Finger'(Working title for 'The Living Daylights'), 'The Infernal Machine'(Working title for 'Moonraker'), 'Wide Of The Mark'(Also working title for 'Moonraker')and 'The Inhuman Element'(Yet another working title for 'Moonraker'). You could play with these and previous titles, cut & paste from each other. 'The Infernal Enemy', 'The Mark Of The Enemy', 'The Infernal Element', 'The Enemy's Mark', 'Whisper Of Death', 'Nature Of Death', 'His Infernal Nature' 'No Tears For The Union Jack' etc. It's just a matter of spit balling idea's.
M - "He not a man to be trifled with 007. Remember, in our world an attitude of Devil May Care will only get you killed." BOND - "Yes, but for the enemy it's what the Devil May Dare that make's the man."
Comments
{[]
Finally -- someone has said out loud what I've been thinking. That emboldens me to say that Property of a Lady sounds like a Henry James novel to me. It's OK for ol' Hank, but a Bond story? Yuck ...
In fact, I would say that it is not all that different to Diamonds Are Forever or The Spy Who Loved Me; two other titles which IMO suggested non-violent beauty, while the films themselves were violent and extremely ruthless.
Sort of reminds me of the two RN aircraft carriers currently in design, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales... I mean, who's going to run away from them??
As you say, something more electric. As long as it doesn't have die or gold in it, though
I don't know; maybe. It sounds a bit too much like a period romance piece to me...like a Merchant/Ivory picture, or a Sidney Sheldon novel.
I can understand everyone's reaction to QOS as well; that's certainly a fair cop...I think Risico is okay, but the fact that it rhymes with Casino makes it problematic as a follow-up to CR (don't ask me why; it just wouldn't look right on my DVD shelf right next to it...not logical, but there we are ;% ).
I really like Magic 44...it could be anything: the name of an intelligence operation, the type of heroin supposedly flooding into the UK, a villain's code name, a secret file...something scribbled on a scrap of paper crumpled in a dead man's hand :v
Shatterhand---or, The Death Collector---remain perennial favourites as potential titles...but if I were Eon, I'd go with Magic 44 B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Yes, I agree with all that. They're pretty much just the bargain basement Fleming titles; it's telling that The World Is Not Enough (just a motto from one of his books) was used over that lot. If someone can come up with a corker like Devil May Care, then I reckon there's no need to use Quantum etc.
On the plus side, though, our esteemed host could rechristen himself...RiSiCo. B-)
Seriously, I agree with the crowd that suggests these Fleming titles seem ill-suited to a film these days. And to extend someone's earlier point, using a Fleming title solely because it is a Fleming title is lame pandering of the worst kind.
There are lots of alternatives, especially if one uses Chapter Titles from the various novels. I thought "A Whisper of Love, A Whisper of Hate" would have made a splendid title song for Casino Royale.
While "Whisper" is prehaps too ponderous for a Movie Title, here are some possible titles gleaned from some chapters in Fleming's Bond novels.
"Moment of Truth", "Take it From Here", "Death is so Permanent", "The Moguls of Death", "The Finger on the Trigger", "Killing Ground", "Happenstance", "Enemy Action", "All to Play For", "The Shadower", "Take it Easy, Mr. Bond", "Fork Left for Hell", "Hell's Delight"
Not a Chapter Title, but I like, "The Killing Bottle."
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I've always liked Quantum Of Solace as a title and I think it could even fit as a title for Bond22.
But, each to his/her own.
According to Caine, the Americans would only have understood one word of the three.
(No offense to our friends across the pond!)
Roger Moore 1927-2017
?:)
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
None taken, Nape, especially since -- unlike the erudite Mr. Caine -- we had the good sense to steer clear of that piece of s***.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think those are fine ideas. I've always thought that a title that somehow incorporates the the Blackjack expression "double down" (the act of doubling your original bet after you get your first two cards) might work under the right circumstances, but don't ask me how. There's a kind of symmetry with double-O
But I think it's really tough to come up with something without knowing the story line. Let's hope that when the title is revealed, it's one that causes us all to say "Of course -- that's perfect." In the right context, even one that is "more of a number" as Craig hinted, might be perfect.
I like that! Maybe it could be shortened to "Killing Ground" ..... Not bad, unless they test it in the USA and find people think it's an AL Gore film about Global Warming!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
"Quantum Of Solace"
http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/wp-content/uploads/james_bond_quantum_of_solace_poster.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/2007/06/23/james-bond-quauntum-of-solace-movie-poster/es/&h=763&w=500&sz=95&hl=es&start=4&tbnid=rrKk2k3XWYwfMM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bbond%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Des
Again: "Quantum Of Solace"
http://images.google.co.cr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/wp-content/uploads/james_bond_quantum_of_solace_poster.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/2007/06/23/james-bond-quauntum-of-solace-movie-poster/es/&h=763&w=500&sz=95&hl=es&start=4&tbnid=rrKk2k3XWYwfMM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bbond%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Des
M - "He not a man to be trifled with 007. Remember, in our world an attitude of Devil May Care will only get you killed." BOND - "Yes, but for the enemy it's what the Devil May Dare that make's the man."
-{
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond